Hermeneutics: Interpreting Scripture

[GWH]

My goal in this thread is to discuss how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers that is found in John 17:20-23.
It seems to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

Thus, I would like to begin by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul in 1THS 5:21 to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” As I have been seeking ultimate truth and testing what I have learned, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide my interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements, but before I share them I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Thanks and love in Christ (LIC)

 

[GWH]

My goal in this thread is to discuss how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers that is found in John 17:20-23.
It seems to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

Thus, I would like to begin by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul in 1THS 5:21 to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” As I have been seeking ultimate truth and testing what I have learned, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide my interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements, but before I share them I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Thanks and love in Christ (LIC)

This approach did not dawn on me until a few years ago, so perhaps I need to go first as an example. My two guiding Scriptures are these:

First: 1TM 2:3-4 - "God our savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." This verse is in the same vein as RM 5:8, "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." MT 5:44&48 teaches that God even loves His enemies, which would include Satan.

Second: 2THS 1:6a - "God is just." This is stated also in RM 9:14, "Is God unjust? Not at all!" and in DT 32:4b, "...all His ways are just."
Justness = righteousness, so many other verses are in this vein. Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice for all.

I mine these truths from the Scriptural veins to employ as the starting point of my understanding. What about y'all?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God even loves His enemies, which would include Satan.

I don't think that reflects reality. To love God is to hate evil, which is satan. Love the sinner, but hate the sin; satan is sin. I think God hates satan with every fiber of his being

Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalms 97:10​

 

[GWH]

I don't think that reflects reality. To love God is to hate evil, which is satan. Love the sinner, but hate the sin; satan is sin. I think God hates satan with every fiber of his being

Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. Psalms 97:10​

If you view Satan as sin/evil, okay, but Scripture personifies him. However, I am glad you posted this.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss where our agreement about the meaning of Scripture begins upstream of where it diverges, which is covered on other threads about various topics. Have you ever thought about what Scriptures you build your understandings of GW (such as regarding Satan as a thing rather than a person) on?

What Scriptures primarily inform your understanding of who God is?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

My goal in this thread is to discuss how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers that is found in John 17:20-23.
It seems to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

Thus, I would like to begin by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul in 1THS 5:21 to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” As I have been seeking ultimate truth and testing what I have learned, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide my interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements, but before I share them I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Thanks and love in Christ (LIC)

I will answer the question by telling a story...

I had a interaction with a preacher who's church I was visiting. The discussion turned south when He would not concede that God's authority is greater than the Bible's authority. As I was leaving, he said, "Something is wrong with your hermeneutics". I felt spiritually drained on the way home and asked God if it were possible that I had been wrong and the preacher had been right. Immediately, God reminded me of the Scripture, "But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them" (2 Ti 3:14).

This is an important lesson. You can trust and be confident in your interpretation of Scripture if (and only if) you know that God is the one who taught it to you and if He is assuring you that it is true.

 

[GWH]

I wonder if I should mention that on the Kerygma thread I have summarized with five points my understanding of God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) , which of course I think every Christian should agree is the foundation of spiritual unity, and which Paul call the "Gospel of Christ" and cites as the foundation upon which we all should base our understanding about secondary details.

So, if anyone employs Scripture passages about that truth (such as 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6) I will be neither surprised nor chagrined, because our spiritual unity does indeed include that doctrinal unity, and the Scriptures I cited pertain to the first one of the five points.

 

[GWH]

I will answer the question by telling a story...

I had a interaction with a preacher who's church I was visiting. The discussion turned south when He would not concede that God's authority is greater than the Bible's authority. As I was leaving, he said, "Something is wrong with your hermeneutics". I felt spiritually drained on the way home and asked God if it were possible that I had been wrong and the preacher had been right. Immediately, God reminded me of the Scripture, "But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them" (2 Ti 3:14).

This is an important lesson. You can trust and be confident in your interpretation of Scripture if (and only if) you know that God is the one who taught it to you and if He is assuring you that it is true.

Yes/I agree, and although I am wanting us to discern where our learning begins or what it emphasizes for the purpose of trying to increase our doctrinal as well as spiritual unity, as I say on the Apologetics thread I believe reality is interconnected or unified, so that it is not necessary to worry about where to start exploring, although I began sharing a logical train of thought by asking whether there is some truth which is not debatable; which everyone believes at least implicitly and uses as a common point of departure in discussing ultimate reality.

 

[GWH]

Yes/I agree, and although I am wanting us to discern where our learning begins or what it emphasizes for the purpose of trying to increase our doctrinal as well as spiritual unity, as I say on the Apologetics thread I believe reality is interconnected or unified, so that it is not necessary to worry about where to start exploring, although I began sharing a logical train of thought by asking whether there is some truth which is not debatable; which everyone believes at least implicitly and uses as a common point of departure in discussing ultimate reality.

BTW, our agreement indicates unity (so far so good :^), but I would point out that 2TM 3;14 refers to previous learning of Scripture or teachings further upstream. Have you thought about what Scriptures those might spring from in your experience or study?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If you view Satan as sin/evil, okay, but Scripture personifies him. However, I am glad you posted this.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss where our agreement about the meaning of Scripture begins upstream of where it diverges, which is covered on other threads about various topics. Have you ever thought about what Scriptures you build your understandings of GW (such as regarding Satan as a thing rather than a person) on?

What Scriptures primarily inform your understanding of who God is?

Since Christ, a person, is righteousness it logically follows that satan, a being, is unrighteousness, which is sin.

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is sin not unto death. 1 John 5:17​

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Precious friend, I believe there are More than two for my study of God's Word, Rightly
Divided - ie:

Bible study Rules!

Amen.

 

[homwardbound]

My goal in this thread is to discuss how we can answer Christ's prayer for spiritual unity among his followers that is found in John 17:20-23.
It seems to me that a lot of chat by Christians tends to ignore Jesus' concern, but for those who share it the question is how to achieve it, and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

Thus, I would like to begin by sharing a way of interpreting Scripture that is based on the instruction of Paul in 1THS 5:21 to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” As I have been seeking ultimate truth and testing what I have learned, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide my interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements, but before I share them I would like to ask y'all to tell which two most guide your thinking and chatting.

Thanks and love in Christ (LIC)

God Father in risen Son Jesus being given God Father’s Spirit, the same Spirit that led Jesus. Listening to all, fighting no one, taking all to Father in prayer, daily to learn the truth over the many errors in society today. For me, this has been a long walk off a short pier
learning new daily, seeing new daily, nothing as doctrine for me except Jesus is risen, where new life is given to all that God Father chooses. God chooses all who are sincere to know God, not interested in the here and now gains. The same as Solomon to only want the wisdom to know how to lead the people without prejudice. As Solomon learned sex was not that well for him and said to be married to only one wife. It seems to me sex is a problem, big time, it surely was for Solomon in my honest opinion.
been through it myself, not well for the soul, I found out, seeing God still loving me, I saw to leave it behind me, not that I got it totally together, I know better than to think I know.
i see to only stand in trust to my Father the same as Jesus the perfect one did for us all to now get given this new life given us without any self work to do it presently daily in trust to God, it is done wow! Woe is me

 

[GWH]

Since Christ, a person, is righteousness it logically follows that satan, a being, is unrighteousness, which is sin.

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is sin not unto death. 1 John 5:17​

Okay, C, I can agree that Satan is viewed as the fount of unrighteousness, but again the purpose of this thread is to discuss the fount of our agreement about the meaning of Scripture so that we will move the point of divergence further downstream so that it may not even occur. In short: peacemaking.

So I encourage you to think about what Scriptures you build your understandings of GW on. IOW, what Scriptures primarily inform your understanding of who God, Christ and Satan are?

 

[GWH]

Precious friend, I believe there are More than two for my study of God's Word, Rightly
Divided - ie:

Bible study Rules!

Amen.

Well, both Jesus and Paul cited some Scripture rather than others or the whole OT, so hopefully we can do the same in order to achieve doctrinal unity that will enhance spiritual oneness. Since you thought two were too few, I will post the five point summary of the Gospel in hopes that we can agree on the interpretation of the several Scriptures that are cited:

The main points implicit in Paul's statement of God's requirement for salvation (GRFS), “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord”, can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation or DOD (JN 3:18).

3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel (vice the full NT Gospel).

4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).

5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

 

[GWH]

God Father in risen Son Jesus being given God Father’s Spirit, the same Spirit that led Jesus. Listening to all, fighting no one, taking all to Father in prayer, daily to learn the truth over the many errors in society today. For me, this has been a long walk off a short pier
learning new daily, seeing new daily, nothing as doctrine for me except Jesus is risen, where new life is given to all that God Father chooses. God chooses all who are sincere to know God, not interested in the here and now gains. The same as Solomon to only want the wisdom to know how to lead the people without prejudice. As Solomon learned sex was not that well for him and said to be married to only one wife. It seems to me sex is a problem, big time, it surely was for Solomon in my honest opinion.
been through it myself, not well for the soul, I found out, seeing God still loving me, I saw to leave it behind me, not that I got it totally together, I know better than to think I know.
i see to only stand in trust to my Father the same as Jesus the perfect one did for us all to now get given this new life given us without any self work to do it presently daily in trust to God, it is done wow! Woe is me

Let me see how this can contribute to the cause of achieving spiritual unity.

1. "God Father in risen Son Jesus being given God Father’s Spirit, the same Spirit that led Jesus. Listening to all, fighting no one, taking all to Father in prayer, daily to learn the truth over the many errors in society today. For me, this has been a long walk off a short pier
learning new daily, seeing new daily. " So far so good although it would be helpful to know if the Scriptural support you have in mind is what I am guessing it is.

2. "nothing as doctrine for me except Jesus is risen, where new life is given to all that God Father chooses. God chooses all who are sincere to know God, not interested in the here and now gains." Well, that cuts out too many other teachings IMO, although I cannot think of a Scripture saying not to subtract from GW.

3. "The same as Solomon to only want the wisdom to know how to lead the people without prejudice. As Solomon learned sex was not that well for him and said to be married to only one wife. It seems to me sex is a problem, big time, it surely was for Solomon in my honest opinion. been through it myself, not well for the soul, I found out, seeing God still loving me, I saw to leave it behind me, not that I got it totally together, I know better than to think I know." I agree that sex can be a big problem, which may be why there is no marriage in heaven.

4. "i see to only stand in trust to my Father the same as Jesus the perfect one did for us all to now get given this new life given us without any self work to do it presently daily in trust to God, it is done wow! Woe is me". Okay, but I encourage you to keep reading Scripture and discern which doctrines Jesus and Paul seem to think are important for you to add to your testimony. LIC

 

[GWH]

Y'all, the two Scriptures related to the first point of the summary of GRFS that I cited previously (1TM 2:3-4 teaching that God wanting all people to be saved and 2THS 1:6a teaching that God is just) lead me to conclude that even the wrath of God is an expression of His love and justice. The writer of Hebrews (12:4-11) indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline or for the purpose of teaching people to repent of their hatefulness and faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19).

Thus, if a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage of Scripture purporting to describe God’s will, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what people perceived rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of God’s nature, because unrighteous rage should be attributed to Satan, NOT God. The justice of God is a source of comfort and joy to those who have decided to accept His loving Lordship, but it is experienced as judgment or wrath by those who rebel against Him, beginning with Satan (IS 13:13, RM 1:18, RV 19:11). The fire that warms (purifies) also burns (punishes). Just consequences teach good behavior.

Do we agree on this?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hell @GWH, et al, the following online article about the basics of hermeneutics just popped up and I thought that it looked interesting enough to post the link to it here (in case anyone would like to see it). It's a pretty short and simple presentation that includes a short video or two as well.

​

~All about Hermeneutics: A Guide to Interpreting God's Word Faithfully​

​

Enjoy

Just FYI, the article is something that Logos Bible Software created and sent out.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)

 

[GWH]

Hell @GWH, et al, the following online article about the basics of hermeneutics just popped up and I thought that it looked interesting enough to post the link to it here (in case anyone would like to see it). It's a pretty short and simple presentation that includes a short video or two as well.

​

~All about Hermeneutics: A Guide to Interpreting God's Word Faithfully​

​

Enjoy

Just FYI, the article is something that Logos Bible Software created and sent out.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)

Thanks Deut,

I agree with what was written in the link. The role of hermeneutics in understanding truth is why on the Apologetics thread I state in the third a priori truth that "Reality is meaningful and communicable or able to be discussed rationally in fellowship with other truthseekers. As Isaiah 1:18a (c.735 B.C.) says, 'Come now, let us reason together.'

Perhaps whoever invented language should be regarded as the founder of this fact, because the discussion of reality uses language as the means, and in order to communicate sufficiently for attaining agreement or unity, it is necessary to have a common language and cultural context. (I hope that as Earthlings using English these needs are met for you and me "

Do you want to share with us some Scripture that informs or shapes your hermeneutic?

 

[PaulThomson]

and the answer involves agreeing on one interpretation of Scripture.

No. You can have unity without agreeing on one interpretation of scripture. It is largely the quest to settle on one interpretation of scripture that causes disunity. Epistemic humility , acknowledging that we know only in part (1 Cor. 13:9, 12) , and that if anyone thinks he knows anything he does not yet know as he ought (1 Cor. 8:1-3), is needed to allow us to remain in fellowship with those who hold different interpretations of scripture.

1 Cr 13:12 For now we are seeing (blepomen: present active indicative) through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know (ginOskO: in part; but then shall I know (epignOsomai: future deponent indicative) even as also I am/was known (epegnOsthEn: aorist passive indicative)

1 Cor. 8:1 Knowledge (gnOsis) puffs up, but charity (agapE) edifies.

2 And if any man think that he knows (eidenai: perfect infinitive) any thing, he knows (egnOken: peerfect active indicative) nothing yet as he ought to know (gnOnai: Aorist active infinitive).

3 But if any man is loving (agapai: present active indicative) God, the same is known (egnOsthai: perfect passive indicative) of him.

 

[Dino246]

This approach did not dawn on me until a few years ago, so perhaps I need to go first as an example. My two guiding Scriptures are these:

First: 1TM 2:3-4 - "God our savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." This verse is in the same vein as RM 5:8, "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." MT 5:44&48 teaches that God even loves His enemies, which would include Satan.

Second: 2THS 1:6a - "God is just." This is stated also in RM 9:14, "Is God unjust? Not at all!" and in DT 32:4b, "...all His ways are just."
Justness = righteousness, so many other verses are in this vein. Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice for all.

I mine these truths from the Scriptural veins to employ as the starting point of my understanding. What about y'all?

I have to point out that "justness" is not the same thing as "righteousness", for even a corrupt and wicked judge can occasionally dispense justice; Jesus told a parable to this effect.

The statement, "God is just" means that when He exercises judgment, it is always without partiality for any reason, and that He takes into account all relevant evidence. As an aside, He's also not bound by human legalese like a statute of limitations.

One of the key lessons (for me) from my seminary training was a brief exercise where we read a passage and then summarized what it said about God. Most of the students (myself included) extrapolated from the text. The professor gently corrected us, explaining that the text says exactly what it says and no more. So in our studies, we do well to resist the temptation to claim the text says more (or different) than it actually does.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:13

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14