Amillennialism
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Luckily for those of us who look at reality. We see Satan DECIEVING NATIONS TODAY. Anyone who thinks satan does not have any influence over any nation in my mind is blind.
A bottomless pit is just that. I pit that will be sealed with no exit. Satan will be shut up HE WILL NOT HAVE COMMAND AND CONTROL OF HIS ARMY.
Again. I will not spiritualise doctrine to make my believe be feasable. I will interpret it literally.
If God says satan will be bound, shut up, and placed in a bottomless pit. I believe it. Satan IS NOT GOD. He is NOT OMIPRESENT.
A bottomless pit is just that. I pit that will be sealed with no exit. Satan will be shut up HE WILL NOT HAVE COMMAND AND CONTROL OF HIS ARMY.
Again. I will not spiritualise doctrine to make my believe be feasable. I will interpret it literally.
If God says satan will be bound, shut up, and placed in a bottomless pit. I believe it. Satan IS NOT GOD. He is NOT OMIPRESENT.
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NOT ALL SIN! How in Gods name can satan cause me to sin, and someone on the other side of the world to sin if satan is NOT OMNIPRESENT.
And you wonder why no one can talk to you!
James 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
It is our own desires. Not satan that causes us to sin. You think our desires are going to be removed? We will not have a perfect body until we are ressurected.
Paul said it was not him who sinned, but his flesh which was inside him. Did Paul blame satan?
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Nations in rev 20:3
ἔθνος, -ους, τό;
1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together; a company, troop, swarm: ἔθνος ἑταίρων, ἔθνος Ἀχαιῶν, ἔθνος λαῶν, Hom. Il.; ἔθνος μελισσάων, 2, 87; μυιάων ἔθνεα, ib. 469.
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus, (τὸ ἔθνος τὸ θῆλυ ἢ τὸ ἄρρεν, Xen. oec. 7, 26): πᾶν ἔθνος ἀνθρώπων, the human race, Acts 17:26 [but this seems to belong under the next head].
3. race, nation: Mt. 21:43; Acts 10:35, etc.; ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος, Mt. 24:7; Mk. 13:8; οἱ ἄρχοντες, οἱ βασιλεῖς τῶν ἐθνῶν, Mt. 20:25; Lk. 22:25; used [in the sing.] of the Jewish people, Lk. 7:5; 23:2; Jn. 11:48, 50–53; 18:35; Acts 10:22; 24:2 (3), 10; 26:4; 28:19.
4. (τὰ
ἔθνη, like הַגוֹיִם in the O. T., foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles, [cf. Trench § xcviii.]: Mt. 4:15 (Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν, 6:32; [3 Jn. 7 R G; cf. Rev. 15:3 G L T Tr WH mrg. after Jn. 10:7], and very often; in plain contradistinction to the Jews: Ro. 3:29: 9:24; [1 Co. 1:23 G L T Tr WH]; Gal. 2:8, etc.; ὁ λαὸς (τοῦ θεοῦ, Jews) καὶ τὰ ἔθνη, Lk. 2:32; Acts 26:17, 23; Ro. 15:10.
5. Paul uses τὰ ἔθνη even of Gentile Christians: Ro. 11:13; 15:27; 16:4; Gal. 2:12 (opp. vs. 13 to οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι i. e. Jewish Christians), vs. 14; Eph. 3:1, cf. 4:17 [W. § 59, 4 a.; B. 130 (114)].
Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (168). New York: Harper & Brothers.
ἔθνος, εος, τό, (ἔθω a number of people accustomed to live together, a company, body of men, Il., etc.; ἔθνος λαῶν a host of men, Ib.; also of animals, swarms, flocks, Ib., Soph.
2. after Hom., a nation, people, Hdt., etc.:—in N.T. τὰ ἔθνη the nations, Gentiles, i.e. all but Jews and Christians.
3. a special class of men, a caste, tribe, Plat., Xen.
4. sex, Id.
Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon : Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English lexicon (226). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
So which "nations" is john speaking of in rev 20: Nations could mean many things
ἔθνος, -ους, τό;
1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together; a company, troop, swarm: ἔθνος ἑταίρων, ἔθνος Ἀχαιῶν, ἔθνος λαῶν, Hom. Il.; ἔθνος μελισσάων, 2, 87; μυιάων ἔθνεα, ib. 469.
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus, (τὸ ἔθνος τὸ θῆλυ ἢ τὸ ἄρρεν, Xen. oec. 7, 26): πᾶν ἔθνος ἀνθρώπων, the human race, Acts 17:26 [but this seems to belong under the next head].
3. race, nation: Mt. 21:43; Acts 10:35, etc.; ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος, Mt. 24:7; Mk. 13:8; οἱ ἄρχοντες, οἱ βασιλεῖς τῶν ἐθνῶν, Mt. 20:25; Lk. 22:25; used [in the sing.] of the Jewish people, Lk. 7:5; 23:2; Jn. 11:48, 50–53; 18:35; Acts 10:22; 24:2 (3), 10; 26:4; 28:19.
4. (τὰ
ἔθνη, like הַגוֹיִם in the O. T., foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles, [cf. Trench § xcviii.]: Mt. 4:15 (Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν, 6:32; [3 Jn. 7 R G; cf. Rev. 15:3 G L T Tr WH mrg. after Jn. 10:7], and very often; in plain contradistinction to the Jews: Ro. 3:29: 9:24; [1 Co. 1:23 G L T Tr WH]; Gal. 2:8, etc.; ὁ λαὸς (τοῦ θεοῦ, Jews) καὶ τὰ ἔθνη, Lk. 2:32; Acts 26:17, 23; Ro. 15:10.5. Paul uses τὰ ἔθνη even of Gentile Christians: Ro. 11:13; 15:27; 16:4; Gal. 2:12 (opp. vs. 13 to οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι i. e. Jewish Christians), vs. 14; Eph. 3:1, cf. 4:17 [W. § 59, 4 a.; B. 130 (114)].
Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (168). New York: Harper & Brothers.
ἔθνος, εος, τό, (ἔθω
a number of people accustomed to live together, a company, body of men, Il., etc.; ἔθνος λαῶν a host of men, Ib.; also of animals, swarms, flocks, Ib., Soph.2. after Hom., a nation, people, Hdt., etc.:—in N.T. τὰ ἔθνη the nations, Gentiles, i.e. all but Jews and Christians.
3. a special class of men, a caste, tribe, Plat., Xen.
4. sex, Id.
Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon : Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English lexicon (226). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
So which "nations" is john speaking of in rev 20: Nations could mean many things
The gospel I have in my heart is right on and you know it because it was given by grace through a pastor-teacher that God raised up for the church to teach the word and doctrine. Many of you scoff at that because you do not know the scriptures on it because you never have been taught specific categorical doctrine. How shall they hear without a preacher? You don't take that seriously in relationship to the gospel, the word and doctrine being taught and training up the believer for the work of the ministry and for the details of life in the plan of God. You think that you can learn everything on your own and you can't and I don't care how much of the Holy Spirit you think you have. We receive from God through humility and by submitting ourselves under the mighty hand of God, which means we are to be under a flesh and blood pastor-teacher that teaches the whole counsel of God through categorical doctrine. There is no humility without submission to those that are over us in the Lord and we are to submit and obey what they teach.
We learn from others that God places us under, who are over us in the Lord, so that we don't get off through an independent spirit and think we know everything because we don't and because the whole head is sick and the heart is deceitful. Zone, you don't want to put yourself under anyone, not the all knowing and all powerful Zone, the great conspirator. No sir, Zone has it all down and has done her homework and never put herself under a pastor-teacher and learned how to receive doctrine and grace through humility. If I was your teacher, and I AM NOT, I would tell you that you have been doing the wrong homework assignment and you get no credit for it, but I would not condemn you, just stir you up a little. Most of these other guys and gals on this site, that you consider your friends, have not either.
Some of them think they have knowledge and they are nothing more that pompous donkeys. You betray friendships when your mood changes or you don't like what they believe or have to say. A friend loves at all times and your not mature enough to know that kind of love with all your vast knowledge or to even be a friend that stick closer than a brother. You have no idea what that means because you don't have that kind of love in your heart to discern those kind of friends that overlook your moods and mental blocks that keep you from receiving grace from God through the body of Christ. There are only a hand full of people that would lay their life down for you. Are you going to betray them through your doctrine and settle for those that can only offer you like-minded doctrine through personality rapport? They don't know what intimate fellowship is. They just live in some abstract idea of what a Christian is suppose to be like and hope they can live up.
We learn from others that God places us under, who are over us in the Lord, so that we don't get off through an independent spirit and think we know everything because we don't and because the whole head is sick and the heart is deceitful. Zone, you don't want to put yourself under anyone, not the all knowing and all powerful Zone, the great conspirator. No sir, Zone has it all down and has done her homework and never put herself under a pastor-teacher and learned how to receive doctrine and grace through humility. If I was your teacher, and I AM NOT, I would tell you that you have been doing the wrong homework assignment and you get no credit for it, but I would not condemn you, just stir you up a little. Most of these other guys and gals on this site, that you consider your friends, have not either.
Some of them think they have knowledge and they are nothing more that pompous donkeys. You betray friendships when your mood changes or you don't like what they believe or have to say. A friend loves at all times and your not mature enough to know that kind of love with all your vast knowledge or to even be a friend that stick closer than a brother. You have no idea what that means because you don't have that kind of love in your heart to discern those kind of friends that overlook your moods and mental blocks that keep you from receiving grace from God through the body of Christ. There are only a hand full of people that would lay their life down for you. Are you going to betray them through your doctrine and settle for those that can only offer you like-minded doctrine through personality rapport? They don't know what intimate fellowship is. They just live in some abstract idea of what a Christian is suppose to be like and hope they can live up.
Huh? So satan...causes SOME sin...but leaves the rest up to us?
Can satan have agents (children) who tempt people to sin?
Is that possible?
Worldly desire is lust. Lust comes from temptation. Temptation comes from the devil and his children.
You mean this Paul:
(1 Thessalonians 3:5) For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
Who is the tempter?
Can satan have agents (children) who tempt people to sin?
Is that possible?
Worldly desire is lust. Lust comes from temptation. Temptation comes from the devil and his children.
You mean this Paul:
(1 Thessalonians 3:5) For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
Who is the tempter?
My take:
To include Revelation 19 what I see happening is as follows:
The multitude in heaven is happy singing and rejoicing because the great harlot has been judged. Following this comes the marriage supper of the lamb, the wife has made herself ready. So.... The multitude is not on earth,but in heaven. She (the wife) is given fine linen. I believe this multitude is the raptured church that was secure during the judgment of the harlot.
Next: Heaven opens!! Christ returns to earth. This happens AFTER the marriage supper of the Lamb. He is followed by his army. He comes to strike the nations and rule with a rod of iron. Followed is the supper of the great God. NOW the beast and fp are thrown in the lake of fire. The birds are summoned to eat the flesh of the rest of those defeated by the sword of Him who sat on the white horse. Now if we look at this in sequence, we go on to Rev. 20 and Guess what...satan is now bound and thrown into the bottomless pit. This binding takes place AFTER the fp and beast are dealt with. ALL THIS HAPPENS AFTER Christs return. There cannot be a binding of satan before Jesus returns.
As to the 1000 years, i believe it is a time WITH Christ as ruler amongst us visibly and without any evil because those that caused evil have been removed. ( in 2 separate places). It is clear in verse 7 that this special period of time without evil will expire. It is not a permanent time. It cannot be current because Jesus has not returned yet.
That is my take for now.
To include Revelation 19 what I see happening is as follows:
The multitude in heaven is happy singing and rejoicing because the great harlot has been judged. Following this comes the marriage supper of the lamb, the wife has made herself ready. So.... The multitude is not on earth,but in heaven. She (the wife) is given fine linen. I believe this multitude is the raptured church that was secure during the judgment of the harlot.
Next: Heaven opens!! Christ returns to earth. This happens AFTER the marriage supper of the Lamb. He is followed by his army. He comes to strike the nations and rule with a rod of iron. Followed is the supper of the great God. NOW the beast and fp are thrown in the lake of fire. The birds are summoned to eat the flesh of the rest of those defeated by the sword of Him who sat on the white horse. Now if we look at this in sequence, we go on to Rev. 20 and Guess what...satan is now bound and thrown into the bottomless pit. This binding takes place AFTER the fp and beast are dealt with. ALL THIS HAPPENS AFTER Christs return. There cannot be a binding of satan before Jesus returns.
As to the 1000 years, i believe it is a time WITH Christ as ruler amongst us visibly and without any evil because those that caused evil have been removed. ( in 2 separate places). It is clear in verse 7 that this special period of time without evil will expire. It is not a permanent time. It cannot be current because Jesus has not returned yet.
That is my take for now.
Classic pre-trib rapture..Premillenial then.
(Matthew 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(Matthew 12:29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Who is the strong man?
(Matthew 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(Matthew 12:29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Who is the strong man?
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First thing Red, this verse cancels out most of what you said.
1 John 2:26-27
King James Version (KJV)
26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Secondly Red you dont have a clue what background anyone here has. So all your judgement falls on ears
that only hear your emotions. Biblically your ideas are not so biblical. We are to take heed to what we hear and who we hear it from and to expect false teachers. Jesus words. Stop your attacking persons and keep it
biblical. We are also exhorted to defend the faith delivered to the saints. In season and out of season.
So defend the faith Red....and use the bible ....please...and not a ton of religious retoric.
Your judgement on me is fine, because you dont know at all who i am.
First thing Red, this verse cancels out most of what you said.
1 John 2:26-27
King James Version (KJV)
26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Secondly Red you dont have a clue what background anyone here has. So all your judgement falls on ears
that only hear your emotions. Biblically your ideas are not so biblical. We are to take heed to what we hear and who we hear it from and to expect false teachers. Jesus words. Stop your attacking persons and keep it
biblical. We are also exhorted to defend the faith delivered to the saints. In season and out of season.
So defend the faith Red....and use the bible ....please...and not a ton of religious retoric.
Your judgement on me is fine, because you dont know at all who i am.
He has been bound "a thousand years". Thats the Gospel age that we're living in.
(remember the "thousand years" is prolly symbolic...in a book full of symbols. Just means a full period or age. The Church age)
When he's loosed (could be soon by the looks of things) all hell is gonna hit the fan and loads of Christians are gonna be martyred.
Kinda sounds like the endtimes hey bud?
Need to go to bed now Fencester but keep the questions coming. I like how your brain works.
G'night good buddy!
(remember the "thousand years" is prolly symbolic...in a book full of symbols. Just means a full period or age. The Church age)
When he's loosed (could be soon by the looks of things) all hell is gonna hit the fan and loads of Christians are gonna be martyred.
Kinda sounds like the endtimes hey bud?
Need to go to bed now Fencester but keep the questions coming. I like how your brain works.
G'night good buddy!
He has been bound "a thousand years". Thats the Gospel age that we're living in.
(remember the "thousand years" is prolly symbolic...in a book full of symbols. Just means a full period or age. The Church age)
When he's loosed (could be soon by the looks of things) all hell is gonna hit the fan and loads of Christians are gonna be martyred.
Kinda sounds like the endtimes hey bud?
Need to go to bed now Fencester but keep the questions coming. I like how your brain works.
G'night good buddy!
(remember the "thousand years" is prolly symbolic...in a book full of symbols. Just means a full period or age. The Church age)
When he's loosed (could be soon by the looks of things) all hell is gonna hit the fan and loads of Christians are gonna be martyred.
Kinda sounds like the endtimes hey bud?
Need to go to bed now Fencester but keep the questions coming. I like how your brain works.
G'night good buddy!
First of all this was my answer to zone, not you...I find you rude and obnoxious and wont answer anymore of your posts except this one. I never claimed to be pre-trib...dont put words in my mouth. The kingdom of God is within us YES. Because His kingdom connects all believers through the Holy Spirit who happens to work through us and in us. You ignore what I point out as far as sequence of events is concerned because you just want to put your own puzzle pieces together to fit your own picture that you are Stuck with now. None of your theory makes sense nor is it scriptural. Read Rev. 19 and 20-21 again and lay aside your unreasonable doctrine, which is false.