Baptism should accompany confessions of faith
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Note what the word of God reveals concerning when the indwelling of the Holy Spirit actually takes place:
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." Acts 8:12-17
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve." Acts 19:1-7
"...Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (water baptism) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." Acts 8:12-17
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve." Acts 19:1-7
"...Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (water baptism) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38
For the purposes of this thread, I'm not really concerned with the words spoken at baptism or when the Holy Spirit indwells us. These are important subjects but they aren't the topic of this thread. Feel free to start your own thread on these topics if you wish; or resurrect one of the numerous others that have discussed this.
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RA,
"When the Holy Spirit indwells us" IS the baptism that accompanies repentance/confession of faith, which may be followed by baptism with water at some point!
I guess you did not realize this truth when you titled this thread? Now that you do, can you rephrase the title so I know whether to bug out or in?
Thanks. LIC
"When the Holy Spirit indwells us" IS the baptism that accompanies repentance/confession of faith, which may be followed by baptism with water at some point!
I guess you did not realize this truth when you titled this thread? Now that you do, can you rephrase the title so I know whether to bug out or in?
Thanks. LIC
I eventually came to receive Jesus Christ through faith on a late Saturday night several years ago. About a month prior to my conversion, my mother in law had passed away and I was thinking very seriously about the afterlife. Soon after she had passed away, I remember asking Jesus Christ that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, just put the answer right in front of my face so that I will know with absolute assurance here is the answer and now it's up to me to accept the truth. It turns out that Jesus did put the answer in front of my face.
Prior to my conversion, I had absolutely no assurance of salvation. I was a confused Roman Catholic who trusted in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church. Also, just prior to my conversion, I had read through a gospel tract that really caught my attention which led me to thoroughly search through the Scriptures. I knew the Lord was drawing me. Finally, after reading through the book of Romans and eventually the book of Ephesians, I came to Ephesians 2:8,9 and that's when the light came on! I had then placed my faith in Christ alone for salvation and knew without a doubt that I had become born again! Praise the Lord!
I remember over the years how several people had tried to explain the gospel to me, but at that time the truth just went right over my head, but right after my conversion, I could look back and say, "that's what he meant, that's what she meant, that's what they meant!" Praise God! I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I remember giving about a 5 minute testimony on how I came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and how I was falsely taught salvation by works (including the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration) prior to my conversion as a Roman Catholic.
Prior to my conversion, I had absolutely no assurance of salvation. I was a confused Roman Catholic who trusted in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church. Also, just prior to my conversion, I had read through a gospel tract that really caught my attention which led me to thoroughly search through the Scriptures. I knew the Lord was drawing me. Finally, after reading through the book of Romans and eventually the book of Ephesians, I came to Ephesians 2:8,9 and that's when the light came on! I had then placed my faith in Christ alone for salvation and knew without a doubt that I had become born again! Praise the Lord!
I remember over the years how several people had tried to explain the gospel to me, but at that time the truth just went right over my head, but right after my conversion, I could look back and say, "that's what he meant, that's what she meant, that's what they meant!" Praise God! I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I remember giving about a 5 minute testimony on how I came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and how I was falsely taught salvation by works (including the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration) prior to my conversion as a Roman Catholic.
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My church still follows baptism.
We are only saved by the blood of Jesus through faith, but our works demonstrates our faith.
1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Jesus was baptized and He is our example to follow. Baptism is an outward profession that one is dedicating themselves to Christ. Jesus always led by example and we are to follow in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22
We are only saved by the blood of Jesus through faith, but our works demonstrates our faith.
1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Jesus was baptized and He is our example to follow. Baptism is an outward profession that one is dedicating themselves to Christ. Jesus always led by example and we are to follow in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22
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I eventually came to receive Jesus Christ through faith on a late Saturday night several years ago. About a month prior to my conversion, my mother in law had passed away and I was thinking very seriously about the afterlife. Soon after she had passed away, I remember asking Jesus Christ that whatever it takes to get me to heaven, just put the answer right in front of my face so that I will know with absolute assurance here is the answer and now it's up to me to accept the truth. It turns out that Jesus did put the answer in front of my face.
Prior to my conversion, I had absolutely no assurance of salvation. I was a confused Roman Catholic who trusted in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church. Also, just prior to my conversion, I had read through a gospel tract that really caught my attention which led me to thoroughly search through the Scriptures. I knew the Lord was drawing me. Finally, after reading through the book of Romans and eventually the book of Ephesians, I came to Ephesians 2:8,9 and that's when the light came on! I had then placed my faith in Christ alone for salvation and knew without a doubt that I had become born again! Praise the Lord!
I remember over the years how several people had tried to explain the gospel to me, but at that time the truth just went right over my head, but right after my conversion, I could look back and say, "that's what he meant, that's what she meant, that's what they meant!" Praise God! I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I remember giving about a 5 minute testimony on how I came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and how I was falsely taught salvation by works (including the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration) prior to my conversion as a Roman Catholic.
Prior to my conversion, I had absolutely no assurance of salvation. I was a confused Roman Catholic who trusted in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church. Also, just prior to my conversion, I had read through a gospel tract that really caught my attention which led me to thoroughly search through the Scriptures. I knew the Lord was drawing me. Finally, after reading through the book of Romans and eventually the book of Ephesians, I came to Ephesians 2:8,9 and that's when the light came on! I had then placed my faith in Christ alone for salvation and knew without a doubt that I had become born again! Praise the Lord!
I remember over the years how several people had tried to explain the gospel to me, but at that time the truth just went right over my head, but right after my conversion, I could look back and say, "that's what he meant, that's what she meant, that's what they meant!" Praise God! I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I remember giving about a 5 minute testimony on how I came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and how I was falsely taught salvation by works (including the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration) prior to my conversion as a Roman Catholic.
"Thanks for sharing your testimony."
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That's a good point. I think it started long ago; but these days, what you have said is definitely a big part of it. What a lot of them will do is hold some kind of group baptism events where many people get baptized long after their confession and belief in the Lord. It's purely ceremonial and for show, but they still want to hold onto it in some form or fashion.
Again, you're missing the point of the scripture.... the whole purpose for telling of Cornelius was to tell how God used them as a living proof that Gentiles were acceptable to Him.... THAT is why they received the Spirit before they were baptized.... the Jewish Christians were apparently saying that the Gentiles could NOT be baptized, because they were not part of God's chosen people. God SHOWED the Jews that Gentiles were accepted..... Peter even asked the Jews "now that you have seen with your own eyes that Gentiles are acceptable to God, what could possibly prevent them from being baptized? Then, they were.
Obviously, and more important, scripturally, water baptism is how we are baptized into Christ's death... as in Romans 6....
The act of baptism is an earthly repetition of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
Yes, I think you intentionally missed the direct implication.
So, to play the same game.... I did not see any mention of delaying, even for one day....
I find that many people read exactly what they want to read, not what it actually says or implies.
Obviously, and more important, scripturally, water baptism is how we are baptized into Christ's death... as in Romans 6....
The act of baptism is an earthly repetition of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
Yes, I think you intentionally missed the direct implication.
So, to play the same game.... I did not see any mention of delaying, even for one day....
I find that many people read exactly what they want to read, not what it actually says or implies.
To elaborate.... Peter told the Jews at Pentecost what they needed to do.... repent and be baptized.... and 3000 were added THAT DAY.
Paul, as soon as he was able, after conviction of his need for Jesus, arose and was baptized... before even eating or drinking... The household of Cornelius, after the Jewish Christians were shown the evidence of the Spirit, were baptized.... the word says nothing about they all were baptized next week, or at the end of the month... that implies immediately....
The Ethiopian eunuch that Philip was teaching in the chariot... when they came upon a pond of water, was baptized immediately. Why did he not wait until he got back to Ethiopia?
Scripture is pretty clear, for honest readers....
Paul, as soon as he was able, after conviction of his need for Jesus, arose and was baptized... before even eating or drinking... The household of Cornelius, after the Jewish Christians were shown the evidence of the Spirit, were baptized.... the word says nothing about they all were baptized next week, or at the end of the month... that implies immediately....
The Ethiopian eunuch that Philip was teaching in the chariot... when they came upon a pond of water, was baptized immediately. Why did he not wait until he got back to Ethiopia?
Scripture is pretty clear, for honest readers....
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Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna has some good stuff. In the first century, baptism was itself a sort of confession of faith. Today, it's the "sinner's prayer." This was popularized by D.L. Moody in the 19th century. But even as early as the 4th century baptism had started to be delayed. One of the reasons for this was the clergy felt prebaptismal training and education were necessary. Already human theology was replacing God's word. Some traditions held baptisms once a year on Easter. Another doctrine was also creeping in: the idea that sins are forgiven through baptism. So baptism was put off until close to death so their sins could be forgiven and they wouldn't have a chance to commit more sins. This was the case with Constantine. It's also the rationale behind last rites in Catholicism.
He’s told us and invited us to believe him and act and receive the promise
what shall we do ?
and also
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 10:42-45 KJV
what shall we do ?
and also
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 10:42-45 KJV
“Scripture is pretty clear, for honest readers.”
couldn’t agree more we would do so well if we stopped teaching one another and started finding out what’s really said by the lord and his apostles in more than a verse we pluck out but what’s being said
its hard to learn new things sometimes when we think we already know but we can always fall back on what’s written. Which is why it’s written
couldn’t agree more we would do so well if we stopped teaching one another and started finding out what’s really said by the lord and his apostles in more than a verse we pluck out but what’s being said
its hard to learn new things sometimes when we think we already know but we can always fall back on what’s written. Which is why it’s written
It is by faith that you get baptized. Faith is not just mental assent to facts its action as well
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
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It did. A lot of protestants were using the didache; which is pretty old. Like third century, I think; but there's too much in there that doesn't line up with the scriptures.
* didache is 1st-2nd century. It's authenticity as an apostolic writing has always been challenged throughout history, though.
* didache is 1st-2nd century. It's authenticity as an apostolic writing has always been challenged throughout history, though.