Questions about Christianity

[JohnDB]

You cannot expect large numbers of Christians in Muslim countries because they could be killed for professing their faith, just as those who depart the Islamic faith risk their lives to do so, since murdering infidels and Jews and those of "the book" is mandated in the Quran.

No different from what the Early Church experienced. Many of them were killed, kicked out and made homeless by having all assets seized.

 

[Magenta]

No different from what the Early Church experienced. Many of them were killed, kicked out and made homeless by having all assets seized.

I am certainly not in any hurry to move to a country that has such backwards
and barbaric practices written into their "holy" books. Are you?

 

[JohnDB]

I am certainly not in any hurry to move to a country that has such backwards
and barbaric practices written into their "holy" books. Are you?

Uhhhh.....no.

And honestly it's not the vast majority of the Muslim people.....only a few militants doing this.

We have had the same type of thing here in the USA but we, as a nation, stop such behavior. We don't allow the bombing of Abortion clinics or killing of doctors by a few crazed "Christians".

There are other such actions but not as extreme by Christians. Where part of us rejoices over the stopping of what we see as immorality we also don't know what to do if it weren't for law enforcement.

And this is what is happening there but without the law enforcement doing anything. The people don't like it...but they also don't know what to do about it...and are unwilling to risk personal harm to intervene.

 

[Magenta]

And honestly it's not the vast majority of the Muslim people.....only a few militants doing this.

Not about who does what so much as the point is that violence against others is written into their
so-called holy books. To properly follow Islam one is mandated to murder, and actually, murdering
others is the only assurance of salvation a Muslim has, though oddly enough even Mo was unsure.

 

[JohnDB]

Not about who does what so much as the point is that violence against others is written into their so-called holy books.

Not much different from Old Testament scriptures....
Except Muslims have no equivalent New Testament scriptures to follow.

Roughly the same time our New Testament was being authored and finished the Koran was being written.

 

[Magenta]

Not much different from Old Testament scriptures....
Except Muslims have no equivalent New Testament scriptures to follow.

Roughly the same time our New Testament was being authored and finished the Koran was being written.

The Quran was written after 600. NT Scriptures were finished well before then. Also, comparing what the
Quran teaches Islamists cannot be compared to what New Covenant followers are taught. Not. At. ALL.
Nowhere are we told to murder or kill anyone. Many make the same mistake you are making.

List of Killings in the Name of Islam: Last 30 Days

List of Islamic Terror Attacks

The list is kept updated and current. During this time period, there were 137
Islamic attacks in 25 countries, in which 798 people were killed and 587 injured.

 

[JohnDB]

The Quran was written after 600. NT Scriptures were finished well before then. Also, comparing what the
Quran teaches Islamists cannot be compared to what New Covenant followers are taught. Not. At. ALL.
Nowhere are we told to murder or kill anyone. Many make the same mistake you are making.

List of Killings in the Name of Islam: Last 30 Days

List of Islamic Terror Attacks

The list is kept updated and current. During this time period, there were 137
Islamic attacks in 25 countries, in which 798 people were killed and 587 injured.

I stand corrected on the dates....I thought it was earlier.

I've never really studied the Koran or Muslim history much.

I just know what I see from Muslims I personally know. They are extremely respectable and not intent on murdering the infidels. They are interested in living a life others wish for. Being upright and extremely patriarchal and sometimes matriarchal when the patriarch has died. A daughter-in-law can go to the Patriarch for problems with a son or grandson....and if they agree, the son or grandson is severely chastised if not apostacized and restoration is made to the daughter-in-law. She could find herself being "adopted" and the natural son tossed out on his ear.

Which absolutely is in defiance of Christian culture's teaching of extreme individuality and no collectivism that has become a hallmark.

I'm not saying that Muslims are always this way....obviously look at the news and Iran and Palestinians have shown the extremist point of view.

 

[Magenta]

I stand corrected on the dates....I thought it was earlier.

I've never really studied the Koran or Muslim history much.

I just know what I see from Muslims I personally know. They are extremely respectable and not intent on murdering the infidels. They are interested in living a life others wish for. Being upright and extremely patriarchal and sometimes matriarchal when the patriarch has died. A daughter-in-law can go to the Patriarch for problems with a son or grandson....and if they agree, the son or grandson is severely chastised if not apostacized and restoration is made to the daughter-in-law. She could find herself being "adopted" and the natural son tossed out on his ear.

Which absolutely is in defiance of Christian culture's teaching of extreme individuality and no collectivism that has become a hallmark.

I'm not saying that Muslims are always this way....obviously look at the news and Iran and Palestinians have shown the extremist point of view.

Yes, individuals stray from what the Quran teaches and advocates. This is nothing new. Christians are guilty of the same thing.

Still, the hero of Islam, their idealized man, is an adulterous war-mongering pedophile and rapist.

Oh, surely Mo did not think himself an adulterer. He allowed himself more wives than others could have.

Many more. PS~ Muhammad was born c. 570 CE, and believed to have received the Quran between 610 and 632 CE

 

[JohnDB]

Yes, individuals stray from what the Quran teaches and advocates. This is nothing new. Christians are guilty of the same thing.

Still, the hero of Islam, their idealized man, is an adulterous war-mongering pedophile and rapist.

Oh, surely Mo did not think himself an adulterer. He allowed himself more wives than others could have.

Many more. PS~ Muhammad was born c. 570 CE.

Obviously he considered himself equal to a king....look at Solomon.

But they definitely follow the Abrahamic covenant....theirs and the Jewish diet is not different.

 

[Magenta]

Obviously he considered himself equal to a king....look at Solomon.

But they definitely follow the Abrahamic covenant....theirs and the Jewish diet is not different.

You will never hear Islam called the religion of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but only Abrahamic, because they
remove Isaac as the child of promise and put Ishmael in his place. Mo claims lineage through Ishmael. That is
pretty significant considering Jesus comes through the true child of promise, Isaac's line via Jacob, renamed Israel.
In fact that was the whole reason God separated them out from the world: to bring forth our Messiah. That is their fruit.
After Jesus came into the world, His cursing of the fig tree foreshadowed the coming end of the Temple worship system.

 

[Magenta]

From Hebrews 10:1, 4, and 1 Corinthians 5:7 The law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves... because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us. Thank you, Jesus!

 

[daisyseesthesun]

I stand corrected on the dates....I thought it was earlier.

I've never really studied the Koran or Muslim history much.

I just know what I see from Muslims I personally know. They are extremely respectable and not intent on murdering the infidels. They are interested in living a life others wish for. Being upright and extremely patriarchal and sometimes matriarchal when the patriarch has died. A daughter-in-law can go to the Patriarch for problems with a son or grandson....and if they agree, the son or grandson is severely chastised if not apostacized and restoration is made to the daughter-in-law. She could find herself being "adopted" and the natural son tossed out on his ear.

Which absolutely is in defiance of Christian culture's teaching of extreme individuality and no collectivism that has become a hallmark.

I'm not saying that Muslims are always this way....obviously look at the news and Iran and Palestinians have shown the extremist point of view.

Well I thought so too. I even had two friends that were muslims on campus this was pullman wa in 2014. In those days I loved listening to Nicole mullen. I was at the mall in Idaho right over the border in Idaho listening to My redeemer lives loud then I saw two men put on masks and heading angrily toward my car. Thankfully I got into the car fast enough and got away. I never trusted any Muslim again. They have a hatred for Christian music and are quite scary to be ready for violence at a moment notice.

 

[Bataal]

You cannot expect large numbers of Christians in Muslim countries because they could be killed for professing their faith, just as those who depart the Islamic faith risk their lives to do so, since murdering infidels and Jews and those of "the book" is mandated in the Quran. However, the opposite is not true, and too many Muslims have been allowed into countries where they refuse to integrate. In fact, some immigrate with the express purpose of overthrowing the western way of life. Again this is mandated by the Islamic faith. All must submit.

Religious freedom and safety are serious issues in everywhere on this earth. Islam, like Christianity, has a wide range of interpretations and practices. While some individuals may misuse religious texts to justify violence, most Muslims around the world advocate for peace, coexistence, and respect for others, including those of different faiths. And the Quran, like the Bible, contains passages that emphasize the sanctity of life and the importance of justice and compassion. Most Muslims do not support violence against others and seek to live in harmony with their neighbors.
But as we all know, people with Islamophobia tend to focus on the small black dots on a large white page.

 

[Magenta]

Religious freedom and safety are serious issues in everywhere on this earth. Islam, like Christianity, has a wide range of interpretations and practices. While some individuals may misuse religious texts to justify violence, most Muslims around the world advocate for peace, coexistence, and respect for others, including those of different faiths. And the Quran, like the Bible, contains passages that emphasize the sanctity of life and the importance of justice and compassion. Most Muslims do not support violence against others and seek to live in harmony with their neighbors.
But as we all know, people with Islamophobia tend to focus on the small black dots on a large white page.

Islamophobia does not exist, since it is in the best interest of everyone to oppose what Islam actually teaches despite
those who do not follow their "holy" texts. There are over a hundred verses in the Quran advocating violence against others.

Pat Condell - Islamophobia

 

[Magenta]

I have transcribed a few of David Wood's videos

(The video for this no longer seems to be available, so I have removed the dead link.
However you may still find it on David's Acts17 website here => Acts 17 )

The greatest threat to terrorist groups like the Islamic State, The Taliban, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, and Al-Qaeda, is not a UN resolution or the US Military. The greatest threat to terrorists is an informed population, because only an informed population can undermine the ideology that gives rise to jihad.

With this in mind, let's go through 10 facts about the Qur'an, history's
most effective manual for violently subjugating nations and cultures.

Fact number 1: The word Qur'an means recitation. The Qur'an is something that is supposed to be recited from memory. Muhammad and his companions weren't big on reading, and in Muhammad's time, portions of the Qur'an were only written down as memory aids. It wasn't until later that some of his followers came up with the idea of putting it all together into book form.

So, why would Muslims want to recite the Qur'an? Because:

Fact number 2: Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah. The angel Gabriel, as the story goes, delivered verses to Mohammed, and Mohammad passed these verses on to his followers. But as far as the Qur'an is concerned, Gabriel and Muhammad were mailmen. It's the word of Allah not the words of Gabriel or Muhammad. Why do Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah? Because:

Fact number 3: Muhammad said so.

The Qur'an was supposedly revealed to one man, Muhammad. Unlike the Bible, which contains numerous shorter works written by around 40 different authors, the Qur'an stands or falls with the lone testimony of Mohammed, a guy who's first impression of his revelations was that they were demonic, a guy who repeatedly tried to kill himself, a guy who believed he was the victim of magic spells that give him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. A guy who delivered versus to his followers and later blamed the devil for tricking him. A guy who had sex with a nine year old girl, had nine wives at one time, even though the Qur'an says Muslims can only have four, married the divorced wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce; told his followers that it is okay to beat their wives into submission, and so on.

So... What evidence did Muhammad offer to show that his revelations were from Allah?

Fact number four: Muhammad's main argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an, was what we'll call the argument from literary excellence, one of the silliest arguments ever offered by anyone for anything. My poetry is better than your poetry,so my poetry must be the inspired word of Allah. The idea is that no one can produce something as wonderful as or more wonderful than the Qur'an.

Now, there are all kinds of things we could do to make the Qur'an better than it is. We could take out the verses about slaughtering unbelievers or about raping female captives or about having sex with pre-pubescent girls But one simple way to improve the Qur'an would be to put it in chronological order because:

Fact number 5: The Qur'an is not arranged chronologically. Apart from the first chapter, which is a short prayer, the rest of the Qur'an is basically arranged from the longest chapters to the shortest chapters. But the longer chapters were generally much later than the shorter chapters, so the Qur'an is thoroughly disorganized, making it very difficult to read. You might not care about the order, but it's actually extremely important, because"

Fact number 6: Some parts of the Qur'an abrogate or cancel other parts of the Qur'an. Later revelations typically abrogate earlier revelations, but since the Qur'an isn't arranged chronologically, we don't know which verses are cancelled, and which versus still apply, without massive collections of commentaries to help sift through this mess.

You will recall that the main argument for its divine origin is that it is so incredibly well-written, that it must be from God. Yes so wonderfully written that nobody can understand what they're supposed to do without consulting a team of scholars. This is my modern take on the Qur'an; what did Muhammad's contemporaries think of it?

Fact number seven: Muhammad's contemporaries were convinced that the Qur'an was plagiarized from earlier sources. How do we know what they thought about the Qur'an? We know because the Qur'an repeatedly tells us that Muhammad's contemporaries accused him of stealing his stories from others. How did Muhammad respond to charges of plagiarism? He declared that:

Fact number 8: The Qur'an is a continuation of previous scriptures. The reason so much the Qur'an sounded so familiar to the people of Arabia wasn't that Muhammad was plagiarizing earlier sources, those earlier sources were also the word of Allah. That's why they sounded the same!

Of course Muslims today know that those earlier sources thoroughly contradict the Qur'an, so they are forced to claim that the earlier sources were corrupted. This is extremely odd because:

Fact number 9: The Qur'an was only compiled into a book because much of it was lost. According to Muslim sources, entire chapters of the Qur'an were forgotten. Large passages came up missing, verses vanished. This is in spite of the fact that Allah promised, He promised in chapter 15 Verse 9, to protect the Qur'an from corruption. He couldn't do it, which calls into question the rest of what he said in the Qur'an. Why is this relevant? Because:

Fact number ten: The Qur'an is the highest authority on matters of sharia:

Raping female captives, beating women into submission, chopping off
hands for stealing, grown men marrying little girls. These things come
from this book (the Qur'an), which most certainly is not the word of God.

Learn these facts, my friends, and share them with others.

 

[JohnDB]

Well I thought so too. I even had two friends that were muslims on campus this was pullman wa in 2014. In those days I loved listening to Nicole mullen. I was at the mall in Idaho right over the border in Idaho listening to My redeemer lives loud then I saw two men put on masks and heading angrily toward my car. Thankfully I got into the car fast enough and got away. I never trusted any Muslim again. They have a hatred for Christian music and are quite scary to be ready for violence at a moment notice.

Yeah,
I tend to take @Magenta word for it when she makes a statement about something. Especially if I'm too lazy too research the subject myself because she tends to be a more reliable source than anyone else on the forum. Also her theologies are more sound than most. We differ at times...but not over anything of any consequence. Just saying that she is often a delightful surprise in a depressing world.

Of the three groups mentioned in 1John she is in the last group....the "Fathers" . (But she's a she....so a mother?)

At any rate....
Yes, there's a lot of wackanoodle militants who are inspired by the preponderance of propaganda put out by the Iranian propagandists these days.

 

[Magenta]

Yeah,
I tend to take @Magenta word for it when she makes a statement about something. Especially if I'm too lazy too research the subject myself because she tends to be a more reliable source than anyone else on the forum. Also her theologies are more sound than most. We differ at times...but not over anything of any consequence. Just saying that she is often a delightful surprise in a depressing world.

Of the three groups mentioned in 1John she is in the last group....the "Fathers" . (But she's a she....so a mother?)

At any rate....
Yes, there's a lot of wackanoodle militants who are inspired by the preponderance of propaganda put out by the Iranian propagandists these days.

That is very high praise John, and I appreciate your benevolence toward me All glory to God!

 

[JohnDB]

That is very high praise John, and I appreciate your benevolence toward me All glory to God!

You are most welcome.
We hadn't crossed paths in a minute and I haven't taken the opportunity to speak directly towards you. (My bad habit I've been trying to correct lately)
But when I see you active in a thread I know I'm unneeded to chime in as you are usually fairly thorough and correct. And I wanted to correct my poor behavior by appearing to ignore you. (I really have not)

There are a few delightful members on here that are fairly accurate with theologies. Some have more difficulties expressing what they know clearly....writing is not my strongest suit but I do what I can to assist.

 

[Magenta]

You are most welcome.
We hadn't crossed paths in a minute and I haven't taken the opportunity to speak directly towards you. (My bad habit I've been trying to correct lately)
But when I see you active in a thread I know I'm unneeded to chime in as you are usually fairly thorough and correct. And I wanted to correct my poor behavior by appearing to ignore you. (I really have not)

There are a few delightful members on here that are fairly accurate with theologies. Some have more difficulties expressing what they know clearly....writing is not my strongest suit but I do what I can to assist.

I find your theological explanations to be very helpful and quite often much more in depth than what I might offer, so please do not feel you have nothing to offer just because I many have said my small bit. I am sometimes amazed at the depth of understanding some bring to a Scriptural matter that I may have given little thought to, and I have found that to be true with things you have shared on.

 

[Gideon300]

Not only do they live in Muslim countries, but they also have churches and practice their worship freely and safely. Regarding Afghanistan, I know some Christians go there for work. For Pakistan, I don't know, but I think is the same there.



I already mentioned that you have misleading information about Islam and are using unreliable sources. You don’t have the full context and are only presenting excerpts. However, I’m not here to defend or disrespect anyone. I simply hope that the people here can help me answer my questions so I can better understand the things on my mind.



I see that many of you say you are called to love your enemies, but what I experience here feels like hate and attacks against me, even though I have simply asked questions that are not disrespectful to your religion. I started my question by asking about the similarities between groups in Christianity and those in Islam, but some have shifted the discussion toward topics that attempt to portray Islam religion as wrong.
By the way, in our beliefs in Islam, Jesus, Muhammad, and all the messengers of God share the same purpose and attitude.



Yes, if there are many Muslims are forsaking Islam as you said, it is just as there are many Christians who are leaving Christianity or turning to atheism. For me, it’s a personal choice for everyone, and I don’t care because it is up to everyone.

Religious freedom and safety are serious issues in everywhere on this earth. Islam, like Christianity, has a wide range of interpretations and practices. While some individuals may misuse religious texts to justify violence, most Muslims around the world advocate for peace, coexistence, and respect for others, including those of different faiths. And the Quran, like the Bible, contains passages that emphasize the sanctity of life and the importance of justice and compassion. Most Muslims do not support violence against others and seek to live in harmony with their neighbors.
But as we all know, people with Islamophobia tend to focus on the small black dots on a large white page.

Perhaps it is because we know about Muslim violence, hatred, oppression and discrimination. I would not call "From the river to the sea" hatred a small black dot. That's not how I would describe sentencing Muslims to death who turn away from Islam. Your problem is that there are some who know something of the truth about Islam. Me, for example.

I lived in Yemen for a couple of years. I was 10 when we left, courtesy of "the religion of peace". The day we arrived two years before, we were attacked. Nothing serious - then. But not what I'd describe as the religion of peace. Yemen was a prosperous place where different nationalities lived mostly in harmony. Look at it now.

If Muslim beliefs share the same purpose and attitude, why are Christians persecuted in so many Muslim majority nations? Why are Muslims so aggressive against Christians and Jews? Do you forget the "Charlie Hedbo" atrocity?

The basis for all reasonable discussion must be truth. The fact is that Islam and Christianity have nothing in common. I don't mean to be rude, but that is the truth. The centre of the Christian faith is Jesus, the "Prophet like Moses", the "Way, the Truth and the Life." Lord Jesus suffered, died and rose again from the dead (which Islam denies) to save mankind - including you. Mohamed came as a warlord, killing and destroying whatever got in His way. You can attempt to rewrite history. You can't change the facts.

I am aware that many Muslims are peace loving. I've been treated by a Muslim doctor and a Muslim surgeon assisted in an operation I needed. They were Ahmadi, rejected as Muslims by Sunni and Shia Islam. Muslims can be generous and humane like anyone else. But don't insult Mohamed. Don't criticise the Qu'ran. Don't preach Jesus to Muslims. It's illegal in many Muslim countries anyway.