Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

Well, an all-loving God would have elected to give everyone a new heart, and on what just basis would He elect some rather than others?

They keep speaking of a new heart, without understanding what a new heart means.

Receiving a new heart comes with regeneration.
Being made able to know and understand spiritual realities.

Having a new heart is by no means meaning one can not follow errors.
It only means that one can now learn correct Biblical ways to counter the errors.
Whereas, before getting a new heart?
Nothing could have made sense one way or the other.

There would be no admonitions for the Church to stop living in errors found in the Bible if having a new heart indicated an automatic
ability to be always right in rightly handling the Word of God. Stupid Christians fail to see that.

'Stupid' is a Biblically sanctioned word...

"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid"​

Proverbs 12:1

 

[rogerg]

Not bad...
After all?

The religious Pharisees saw Jesus as casting out demons by Beelzebub.

It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. ​

If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members ​

of his household! Matthew 10:25​

Sorry to see you being on the wrong side with this one....
Keep in mind. Peter was there at one time...

Now?

Which insult was the better?





How much more his true disciples?

Remember, it is I who consistently proclaim Jesus as the only Savior, not you.

 

[Genez]

Yes its as irresistible in its reign as death is irresistible in its reign. Can you with your own freewill resist death when its your time to die ?

Poor example.
You are comparing natural in nature with what is spiritual.

It's more like...

Can you use your own free will when you have been shown you have been believing error? ​

You were dead to the truth when you chose the first time.

You need to learn what the term "dead" means.
In the Bible, it holds more than just one meaning and application.
.......

 

[Genez]

Remember, it is I who consistently proclaim Jesus as the only Savior, not you.

It's you who blindly keeps making such a claim.

It makes you feel good to hold up your straw man in front of like-minded torch carrying ones who keep failing to see the light switch.

 

[Magenta]

You need to read the promises of the unilateral New Covenant someday, especially the part that says, "I (GOD) will CAUSE you to walk in my statutes..."

Secondly, we don't have to know how God grace works in a soul. All we have to do is believe the Word of God.

Thirdly, we cannot comprehend the supernatural. God raised Jesus from the dead. Do you understand how God did that? Apparently, you must, presuming that you believe in the resurrection of Christ. So...since you do...why don't you explain that to us.

Thank thank you for that reminder...

 

[Rufus]

That speaks of the Jews living on earth during the Millennium.

Ezekiel 36:20-27​

​

And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ​

‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ I had concern for my holy name, ​

which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.​

​

“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people ​

of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been ​

profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know ​

that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.​

​

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into ​

your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove ​

from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you​

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.​

Last time I checked?
We are the Church.
Not the age of Israel Jews.

Get on the right page, please.

So, the Gentiles are not under the New Covenant? How can that be since Abraham's descendants consists of all believers throughout the Gentile nations.

Also, Ezek 36 applies to this New Covenant age, for your info.

 

[brightfame52]

Poor example.
You are comparing natural in nature with what is spiritual.

It's more like...

Can you use your own free will when you have been shown you have been believing error? ​

You were dead to the truth when you chose the first time.

You need to learn what the term "dead" means.
In the Bible, it holds more than just one meaning and application.
.......

Can you with your own freewill resist death when its your time to die ? Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[rogerg]

It's you who blindly keeps making such a claim.

It makes you feel good to hold up your straw man in front of like-minded torch carrying ones who keep failing to see the light switch.

Huh??? Your post makes no sense. The Bible is filled with that claim which was made by God - I just communicate it; it IS the foundation of salvation, and the gospel. You are just unable to recognize it as such.

 

[Rufus]

They keep speaking of a new heart, without understanding what a new heart means.

Receiving a new heart comes with regeneration.
Being made able to know and understand spiritual realities.

Having a new heart is by no means meaning one can not follow errors.
It only means that one can now learn correct Biblical ways to counter the errors.
Whereas, before getting a new heart?
Nothing could have made sense one way or the other.

There would be no admonitions for the Church to stop living in errors found in the Bible if having a new heart indicated an automatic
ability to be always right in rightly handling the Word of God. Stupid Christians fail to see that.

'Stupid' is a Biblically sanctioned word...

"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid"​

Proverbs 12:1

No one here ever said a new heart in this Church Age = Perfection. So, thanks for another straw man.

Also, since the heart is the seat of all man's faculties, it involves a lot more than the intellect or understanding. It means ALL FOUR of our faculties have been RENEWED. Our passions (emotions) have been changed, giving us a godly disposition. Our conscience has been made soft and senstitive to sin. And the volition has been liberated from its bondage to sin and to the devil. The mind has been renewed. Ever hear of the phrase "new creation"?

No unregenerate sinner will ever repent of their sins and believe in Jesus apart from receiving God's promised new heart.

 

[Rufus]

HeIsHere said:
So you do not have a verse in scripture to support your question then.

Yes, I have some passages for you to chew on!

All true believers know in their heart of hearts just how underserving of God's love and grace they are. The passages below, therefore,
clearly imply that the true saints of God know of what they are worthy: ETERNAL CONDEMNATION. Even in Jesus' story about the rich man in Hades and Lazarus, the rich man pleaded for mercy because of his great thirst. But what is very telling about the story is what is not said! The rich man in agony in the flames did not complain that God was unjust to him! He knew that he was getting what he deserved!

Luke 17:10
10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"
NIV

Luke 5:8
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
KJV

Matt 8:8
8 The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof .
NIV

Luke 15:19
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.'
NIV

All the true children of God daily feel the weight of their sin AND realize that Jesus carried far more weight than that heavy crossbeam of his cross; he also carried every single sin (past, present and future) all of his Father's elect. Not one of us is worthy of God's love, mercy, grace or compassion.

 

[Rufus]

Genez said:


That speaks of the Jews living on earth during the Millennium.

Ezekiel 36:20-27

And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them,
‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ I had concern for my holy name,
which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people
of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been
profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know
that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into
your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove
from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you
to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Last time I checked?
We are the Church.
Not the age of Israel Jews.

Get on the right page, please.

First of all, there is no such thing as the "age of Israel Jews".

Secondly, the CONTEXT of Ezek 36 is God's promise that he made through his prophet to free the Jewsd from their Babylonian captives and bring them back to their land. Ezekiel was a prophet to the exiles in Babylon. His prophecy has nothing to do with the "millennium". However, his prophecy does have everything to do with the New Covenant. The gift of the Holy Spirit is most definitely a NC promise.

Haven't you read that in this NC age, there is no longer any difference between Jews and Gentiles (Rom 10:12; Gal 3: 28; Col 3:11)? This is how it can be said in the NT that ALL believers, regardless of ethnicity, are children of Abraham. As such the NC applies to all believers throughout this NC dispensation.

Context means nothing to you, does it? You don't care two whits how you pervert God's Word, do you?

 

[Rufus]

The central passage in all the bible re divine election is Romans 9. Part of my quiet time with the Lord this past morning was in this chapter and I was really struck by the numerous questions (most of them rhetorical) Paul poses. He clearly anticipated carnal, hostile resistance to his teaching. Here are all the questions he asked in the chapter:

Rom 9:14
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust?
NIV

Rom 9:19
19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"
NIV

Rom 9:20-21
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV

Rom 9:22-24
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath — prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
NIV

Rom 9:25
30 What then shall we say?
NIV

Rom 9:30
32 Why not?
NIV

I count 9 questions in this chapter, which I believe is more than in any other chapter in the bible.

 

[Kroogz]

Again, the need is to harmonize RM 11:5-7 with other Scriptures such as the following:

We can also look at the context. He is dealing with the corporate election of ISRAEL.

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto Himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people; but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt" (Deut. 7:6-8).

"You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2)

Gods Grace and purpose alone choose the nation Israel.