Understanding God’s election

Genez · Nov 27, 2024

GWH said:

They keep speaking of a new heart, without understanding what a new heart means.

Receiving a new heart comes with regeneration.
Being made able to know and understand spiritual realities.

Having a new heart is by no means meaning one can not follow errors.
It only means that one can now learn correct Biblical ways to counter the errors.
Whereas, before getting a new heart?
Nothing could have made sense one way or the other.

There would be no admonitions for the Church to stop living in errors found in the Bible if having a new heart indicated an automatic
ability to be always right in rightly handling the Word of God. Stupid Christians fail to see that.

'Stupid' is a Biblically sanctioned word...

"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid"

Proverbs 12:1

rogerg · Nov 27, 2024

Genez said:

Not bad...
After all?

The religious Pharisees saw Jesus as casting out demons by Beelzebub.

It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters.

If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members

of his household! Matthew 10:25

Sorry to see you being on the wrong side with this one....
Keep in mind. Peter was there at one time...

Now?

Which insult was the better?

How much more his true disciples?

Remember, it is I who consistently proclaim Jesus as the only Savior, not you.

Genez · Nov 27, 2024

brightfame52 said:

Poor example.
You are comparing natural in nature with what is spiritual.

It's more like...

Can you use your own free will when you have been shown you have been believing error?

You were dead to the truth when you chose the first time.

You need to learn what the term "dead" means.
In the Bible, it holds more than just one meaning and application.
.......

Genez · Nov 27, 2024

rogerg said:

It's you who blindly keeps making such a claim.

It makes you feel good to hold up your straw man in front of like-minded torch carrying ones who keep failing to see the light switch.

Magenta · Nov 27, 2024

Rufus said:

You need to read the promises of the unilateral New Covenant someday, especially the part that says, "I (GOD) will CAUSE you to walk in my statutes..."

Secondly, we don't have to know how God grace works in a soul. All we have to do is believe the Word of God.

Thirdly, we cannot comprehend the supernatural. God raised Jesus from the dead. Do you understand how God did that? Apparently, you must, presuming that you believe in the resurrection of Christ. So...since you do...why don't you explain that to us.

Thank thank you for that reminder...

Rufus · Nov 27, 2024

Genez said:

That speaks of the Jews living on earth during the Millennium.

Ezekiel 36:20-27

And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them,

‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ I had concern for my holy name,

which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people

of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been

profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know

that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into

your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove

from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you

to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Last time I checked?
We are the Church.
Not the age of Israel Jews.

Get on the right page, please.

So, the Gentiles are not under the New Covenant? How can that be since Abraham's descendants consists of all believers throughout the Gentile nations.

Also, Ezek 36 applies to this New Covenant age, for your info.

brightfame52 · Nov 27, 2024

Genez said:

Can you with your own freewill resist death when its your time to die ? Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

rogerg · Nov 27, 2024

Genez said:

Huh??? Your post makes no sense. The Bible is filled with that claim which was made by God - I just communicate it; it IS the foundation of salvation, and the gospel. You are just unable to recognize it as such.

Rufus · Nov 27, 2024

Genez said:

No one here ever said a new heart in this Church Age = Perfection. So, thanks for another straw man.

Also, since the heart is the seat of all man's faculties, it involves a lot more than the intellect or understanding. It means ALL FOUR of our faculties have been RENEWED. Our passions (emotions) have been changed, giving us a godly disposition. Our conscience has been made soft and senstitive to sin. And the volition has been liberated from its bondage to sin and to the devil. The mind has been renewed. Ever hear of the phrase "new creation"?

No unregenerate sinner will ever repent of their sins and believe in Jesus apart from receiving God's promised new heart.

Rufus · Nov 27, 2024

Yes, I have some passages for you to chew on!

All true believers know in their heart of hearts just how underserving of God's love and grace they are. The passages below, therefore,
clearly imply that the true saints of God know of what they are worthy: ETERNAL CONDEMNATION. Even in Jesus' story about the rich man in Hades and Lazarus, the rich man pleaded for mercy because of his great thirst. But what is very telling about the story is what is not said! The rich man in agony in the flames did not complain that God was unjust to him! He knew that he was getting what he deserved!

Luke 17:10
10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"
NIV

Luke 5:8
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
KJV

Matt 8:8
8 The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof .
NIV

Luke 15:19
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.'
NIV

All the true children of God daily feel the weight of their sin AND realize that Jesus carried far more weight than that heavy crossbeam of his cross; he also carried every single sin (past, present and future) all of his Father's elect. Not one of us is worthy of God's love, mercy, grace or compassion.

Rufus · Nov 27, 2024

First of all, there is no such thing as the "age of Israel Jews".

Secondly, the CONTEXT of Ezek 36 is God's promise that he made through his prophet to free the Jewsd from their Babylonian captives and bring them back to their land. Ezekiel was a prophet to the exiles in Babylon. His prophecy has nothing to do with the "millennium". However, his prophecy does have everything to do with the New Covenant. The gift of the Holy Spirit is most definitely a NC promise.

Haven't you read that in this NC age, there is no longer any difference between Jews and Gentiles (Rom 10:12; Gal 3: 28; Col 3:11)? This is how it can be said in the NT that ALL believers, regardless of ethnicity, are children of Abraham. As such the NC applies to all believers throughout this NC dispensation.

Context means nothing to you, does it? You don't care two whits how you pervert God's Word, do you?

Rufus · Nov 27, 2024

The central passage in all the bible re divine election is Romans 9. Part of my quiet time with the Lord this past morning was in this chapter and I was really struck by the numerous questions (most of them rhetorical) Paul poses. He clearly anticipated carnal, hostile resistance to his teaching. Here are all the questions he asked in the chapter:

Rom 9:14
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust?
NIV

Rom 9:19
19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"
NIV

Rom 9:20-21
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV

Rom 9:22-24
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath — prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
NIV

Rom 9:25
30 What then shall we say?
NIV

Rom 9:30
32 Why not?
NIV

I count 9 questions in this chapter, which I believe is more than in any other chapter in the bible.

Kroogz · Nov 27, 2024

GWH said:

We can also look at the context. He is dealing with the corporate election of ISRAEL.

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto Himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people; but because the LORD loved you, and because He would keep the oath which He had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt" (Deut. 7:6-8).

"You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2)

Gods Grace and purpose alone choose the nation Israel.

Genez · Nov 27, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

I am sorry.

What ever you are trying to make it to mean? The Ezekiel passage you cited (Ezekiel 36:24-28) speaks specifically about Jews, not gentiles. And, it is about regathering them for the Lord's Millennium reign in Israel.

Look again....

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,

and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,

and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse

you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will

take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye

shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave

to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. Ezekiel 36:24-28

Gentiles will not be going to where that says when being saved during the Church age.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,

and I will be your God.

It is true that born again Christians get a new heart in Christ.
But, don't cite that passage to make your point for what you claim, please.

Ezekiel 36:24-28 has got to do with the regathering of all the Jews who are now scattered all over the world,
so the Lord will set up His Throne in Jerusalem to be reigning as King of the Jews for 1000 years.

I will whistle for them and gather them,

For I will redeem them;

and make them as numerous as they used to be.

Though I have scattered them among the nations,

yet in far-off places they will remember me.

They and their children will survive

and return home together. Zechariah 10:8-9

Jesus will whistle like a shepherd gathering his flock.

grace and peace .............

Genez · Nov 27, 2024

Rufus said:

By your own confession?

Rufus said:

You are all over the map!

GWH · Nov 28, 2024

Genez said:

Good point, which prompted me to discern that Jesus describes the "new heart" in the Beatitudes (MT 5:1-12). "Blessed" indicates "forgiven" rather than "perfect". I wonder whether those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be perfect even in heaven. Perhaps by the time we arrive there we will have learned on earth to ask God when we have questions and appreciate His answers rather than repeat the error of A&E?

GWH · Nov 28, 2024

Kroogz said:

Well, in RM 11:7, "What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did", seems to speak of both corporate Israel and elect individuals including those from corporate Gentiledom who comprise corporate Christendom aka the spiritual church/kingdom of God.

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 28, 2024

Genez said:

They were dwelling in the land in Acts 2. That Ezekiel prophecy was written during the Babylonian exile when no Jews or Israelites were dwelling in the land, so their return to the land after the Babylonian captivity and the destruction of Israel in 722 BC by the Assyrians is a fulfillment of that prophecy. It's unbelief to ignore that and project it off into the future during the millennium. That's something you add that is not in that passage.

Genez · Nov 28, 2024

GWH said:

Israel had been seeking eternal life by means of "works."
That is why they failed to obtain.

Remember all the people asking Jesus what thing they must do to inherit eternal life?
Thanks to the Pharisees, and their works' dogma, the Jews had become a brainwashed people.
It was like we see today with the Catholics having their list of works lined up to do.
One must belong to the church to take communion to be saved... Give this up for lent, etc.

Not wanting to get down on only the Catholics. Baptists have their set of works = legalism.
Not to mention Pentecostals, and Methodists. All locked down by their own set of mental barricades
which were set up by means of the misapplication of Scripture to suit their emotional patterns.

Other than that?
Grace and peace, and a Happy Thanksgiving!
.

Genez · Nov 28, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

That's nice history that ran a parallel to things to come.
They still went back to their adopted lands after Pentecost.

Understanding God’s election

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