the Sabbath

[Inquisitor]

Well, I can see plenty of "veil" here.

A veil, I think it's more of a thick curtain to block out any light.

 

[hornetguy]

Can you please show me where it says that in the commandment- that's it not how God said to keep, but how we want to as individuals? I am unfamiliar with this verse.

so, what does "keep it holy" mean to you, as a Christian?

 

[TMS]

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

1Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Do we all agree that we are asked to keep God's commandments. We should obey and keep them ?

We may not agree which law or commandments, but do we agree that God wants us to obey His commandments?

 

[mailmandan]

You seem to be missing what our disagreement is about. This seems to be a common practice on this forum for some reason.

You seem to be missing the big picture.

I never stated there were not animal sacrifices in the OT for sins, I said they were if you read my posts. People sinned daily, so they made animal sacrifices daily, including the Sabbath.

Yes, there were animal sacrifices in the OT on the sabbath. People sin in the NT as well but now we have the blood of Christ to cleanse us from sin. (Romans 3:24-25; Hebrews 10:10-14; Revelation 1:5)

The disagreement was that you still have not addressed, is when the sacrifices ended in the New Testament, the Sabbath commandment continued without them because as you said. Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb and no more sacrifices needed. The Sabbath was never connected to animal sacrifices, it way always about physical rest from our works and labors and keeping the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-11 focusing out thoughts and attention on God Isa 58:13

I already stated that animal sacrifices are no longer required in the NT after the death of Jesus, because He is the Lamb of God and his sacrifice was the final, perfect offering for sins. The Sabbath was never a commandment for the Church, the body of Christ under the new covenant. To the contrary we have (Colossians 2:16-17). Exodus 20:8-11 was addressed to the children of Israel, who the Lord brought out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (Exodus 20:2) Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15) Isaiah 58:13 is OT, old covenant. You continue to error by mixing the old and new covenants together.

So the question, that you never answered, where was animal sacrifices on the Sabbath in the NT, you claimed they are eternally connected, but that does not reconcile with the scriptures.

Animal sacrifices are no longer necessary in the NT after the death of Christ. Where did I claim that animal sacrifices are eternally connected with the Sabbath in the NT?

The weekly Sabbath started at Creation, when God made everything according to His perfect plan. He codified it written by His own finger, spoken by His own voice and nothing to do with animal sacrifices Exp 20:8-11

God rested on the 7th day at Creation, (Genesis 2:3) yet there was no sabbath law from Adam to Moses. Not until Exodus 16:23. If every man from Adam to Moses kept the sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly sabbath found in the ten commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath prior to Moses?

You act like the Sabbath didn't exist for some reason in the NT, but it was kept faithfully by Jesus, His close followers and the apostles decades after the Cross.

Keeping the sabbath day was never a command for the Church, the body of Christ in the NT. It existed for Jesus who was born under the law (Galatians 4:4) and for the Israelites. (Exodus 31:16-17; Deuteronomy 5:15)

God only gave a name and numbered one day- the seventh day that He called the Sabbath. He claimed it in His own Words as My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God. No where does it say the Sabbath commandment ended at the cross. No where does it say Jesus is our Sabbath, Jesus in His own Words said He is Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the creation, day, commandment and its really a very sad teaching.

Where does the word "Sabbath" appear in Genesis? Why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath day holy?

Here let me add the 4th commandment back into your list of an unbiblical number of 9.

It's no longer about 10 commandments engraved in stone (with rules, regulations and death penalties attached to them) under the new covenant. 2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. Do you prefer the ministry of condemnation over the ministry of righteousness?

Did the Sabbath end at the Cross?

Why would Christians need to keep the weekly sabbath day when it's the shadow and Jesus Christ is the substance? (Colossians 2:16-17) It wasn't the Church, the body of Christ who was delivered out of Egypt in the OT under the old covenant. In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabb...required-for-christians/#sthash.eYuIoRzB.dpbs
http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabbath/sign-of-the-mosaic-covenant/#sthash.q4wmSdKO.dpbs

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

The Israelites did. The transition from law to grace did not happen over night for the Israelites.

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 4:9 that you used literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

Luke 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 the commandment says the Sabbath is the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Everyone should take note that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible. I often hear SDA's suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find complete "sabbatismos" rest in Jesus Christ and not in law keeping.

SabbathBlessing said: Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross- do you not believe Jesus? How do we believe in Jesus but not what He taught, or followed? I think this is going to be pivotal on Judgement Day

Where did Jesus say that keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law continues for Israel and the body of Christ? I believe Jesus. I just don't believe your rhetoric. It's obvious that this is a salvation issue for you since you brought up Judgement Day and you continuously make such a big fuss about the sabbath day. You need to make sure that you are trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) come Judgment Day and not in law keeping. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 2:16) Believing in your eisegesis is not the same as believing in what Jesus taught.

SabbathBlessing said: Mat 24: 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Jesus is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem which happened about 40 years after His death. He had a faithful who was keeping the Sabbath, just like this is a dual prophecy until His Second Coming, because God's people, keep God's commandments- His version, not mans. Like who has more Authority than God? No one.

More eisegesis on your part. Matthew 24:16 - “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. You left out verse 16 from your OP which sinks your premise. Praying that "your flight not be on the Sabbath or winter" in verse 20 has to do with "let those in Judea flee" in verse 16. Matthew 24:20 applies to those living in Judea. The Israelites would understood this.

Travel for pregnant and nursing women would be very difficult. Winter cold would make travel extremely difficult along with closed city gates, laws against carrying loads, laws against traveling more than a short distance, laws against buying and selling on the Sabbath. (Exodus 16:29; Jeremiah 17:21-22; Nehemiah 13:15-19) The only reasonable explanation of Jesus' reference to the Sabbath here is that He was concerned with the difficulties these Jews would face if they were forced to leave Judea on the Sabbath day.

SabbathBlessing said: The Sabbath was kept decades after the Cross by His faithful followers, so you are not being honest with the scriputres.

Jewish followers, serving as a weekly reminder of their liberation from Egypt. If the Sabbath was intended for all people, both Jew and Gentile, then why does Exodus 31:16-17 state that the Sabbath was a sign between God and the "Children of Israel" instead of clarifying that it should be kept by all people of all nations for all time?

SabbathBlessing said: Sad, you teach to forget the one commandment God said Remember, that is holy and blessed by God, that no man can reverse

I did not forget anything and I'm not a Jew under the law who was delivered out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:15) I find my "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

SabbathBlessing said: Num 23:20 and Hod numbered the Ten Commandments personally by design, because He knew man for forget the one commandment He said not to and reduce His Ten Commandments to an unbiblical number.

Who did God tell not to forget? See (Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:15). Who did God say shall keep the Sabbath? See (Exodus 31:16-17)

SabbathBlessing said: I guess we will find out soon enough how it all works out. If God really meant what He said. I believe He did. Jesus told us quoting from the Old Testament to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 but we have free will.

You remain with one foot on the old covenant plantation of law. Your main error is failing to rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

 

[mailmandan]

Deuteronomy 4:2-“You shall not ADD to the word which I command you, nor take away from it.”

Deuteronomy 12:32-“whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not ADD to it or take away from it.”

Proverbs 30:5-“Every word of God is pure…(6) do not ADD to His words, lest He rebuke you and you be found a liar.”

Revelation 22:18-“To everyone who hears the words of this book: If anyone ADDS to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone TAKES AWAY from the words of the book,,,God shall take away his part from the book of life…”

Properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine is not adding to or taking away from God's word. Stop being so over dramatic.

The word “alone” is not in Romans 3:24-28. How is it you are not afraid to “add” to God’s words? Everyone knows that there is a huge difference between being saved by faith, which is taught in the Bible, and being saved by faith “ALONE”, which is not only NOT TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE but is condemned in James 2:24.

In Romans 3:25, we see "though faith." Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. Also, in Romans 3:28, we read "faith in Jesus." Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Faith (rightly understood) in Christ ALONE. *There is a difference between faith in/trusting in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation and a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14, 24)

As I previously stated: It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT and there is a reason for that.

Adding that one word changes what God has said and the meaning of what God has said. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we are saved by FAITH “ALONE”.

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now we don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.
*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24) Prior to my conversion several years ago as a confused Roman Catholic, I did not understand this either. But as a born again Christian, now I do.

You do realize that “alone” means “all by itself”, nothing else, only that one thing.

Faith in/trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in Jesus Christ "plus something else." Hence, FAITH ALONE. Faith rightly understood in Christ ALONE.

You are trying to twist the scriptures to make it INCLUDE works so you can get around James 2:24, but that cannot work and still mean “alone”. If works are necessary to prove your faith, then it cannot, by definition of the word, mean “alone.” You cannot have “salvation” by faith all by itself—nothing else, alone, and still need works. You are either saved by faith alone—without the necessity of any works or you are not. It is impossible for it to be both ways. You want your cake and want to eat it too. You can deceive yourself by telling yourself and others that it is true but it is not true and no matter how much you say it, it will never be true. James 2:24 condemns “salvation by faith alone.”

You are the one who is deceived. By your misinterpretation of James 2:24, you try to "shoehorn" works "into salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) which creates a contradiction. James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

The works talked about in James 2 are not works done as “evidence” of our faith as you have said, they are works done to SAVE THE SOUL.

False and right there, BUSTED! You clearly teach salvation by works. So do Roman Catholics and Mormons.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Beckworth said: see verse 14. The question is asked “If a man has faith, but no works, can faith save him?” God is talking about “salvation” not “evidence” OF salvation. These works are NECESSARY for salvation of his soul. If anything else is necessary for salvation other than faith, then it is just common sense that faith alone or only by itself CANNOT save you. Which is what he very clearly says in verse 24. All of the verses from 14-24 are teaching one thing—faith must have works or it is dead (verses 17,20, 26). Verse 22 is the answer and the true teaching about “faith and works.” God says that FAITH AND WORKS GO TOGETHER.

You are so confused. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

All of the verses from 14-24 are teaching one thing. Faith must have works to demonstrate that it's not dead. (verse 17, 20, 26) I fixed it for you. In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

One is just as important as the other in God’s sight. In verse 24, God says we are JUSTIFIED-that means SAVED—by works!!

Not in this context. Greek word for justified "dikaioo" Strongs #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

*Fits the context. We show our faith by our works. (James 2:18)

He did not say WORKS ALONE! HE said by works—he has already said it takes BOTH works AND faith for salvation. That’s why He is so specific in verse 24–NOT BY FAITH ONLY!

Campbellites and Roman Catholics alike make the same error here. Paul did not say that we are saved by both faith and works in Romans 4:2-6 or in Ephesians 2:8,9. Or that we are justified by both faith and works in Romans 5:1. Also, In James 2:14, James is talking about an empty profession of faith/says claims to have faith. A dead faith. We are shown to be righteous by works and not by a bare profession of faith only. Hence, FAITH ONLY.

3 times God says “faith without works is dead.” Something that God says is necessary besides, or in addition to faith, means that you cannot be saved by faith ALONE ( all by itself).

In regard to "faith without works is dead," James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Simple! Until you come to place your faith in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation you will remain confused and will also continue to promote a false gospel of salvation by faith AND works. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation. For such folks, their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, but believe if a Big word, not a small one.

It means to be-live Christ, not just to have the faith in Jesus, but have the faith of Jesus.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

What faith did Jesus have? Did He also keep the commandments of God?

He sure did, including the Sabbath

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

How do we abide in Jesus?

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

So be- living in Jesus means to be His follower. His sheep His voice and follow Him, meaning, they are living by His teachings and following in His example. Jesus always lead by example and said- I am the way, follow Me.

So you basically define "believe" or "faith" as "keep the commandments of God" (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the sabbath day). Jesus not only kept (guarded, observed, watched over) the commandments of God. He flawlessly obeyed ALL of God's commandments 100% of the time. Can you say the same? We ought to walk as Jesus walked, in love. It's about the direction of our walk and not the absolute perfection of our walk.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, which is descriptive of genuine believers. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. That is descriptive of unbelievers. John is not talking about flawlessly obeying the 10 commandments under the old covenant of law.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard (biblehub.com)

So using your logic of following the example of Jesus, we should keep Kosher laws, Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah and worship in the temple? Jesus kept Kosher laws, He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything Jesus did under the law? Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the law to redeem us from the law. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Even though you deny it, keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) is a salvation issue for you. It was also a salvation issue for a previous member of Christian Chat who was also an SDA who made this statement below:

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

It's also no secret that Seventh Day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. Be sure to read "what are the commandments of God" from this article below.

Bible Truth Versus SDA Doctrine - Mark of the Beast (nonsda.org)

Brother Anderson, from his own personal experience of 33 years in the SDA Church explains why he believes that Seventh-day Adventism may be dangerous to your spiritual life.

https://www.nonsda.org/study12.shtml

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Everyone should take note that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible. I often hear SDA's suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find complete "sabbatismos" rest in Jesus Christ and not in law keeping.

Where did Jesus say that keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law continues for Israel and the body of Christ? I believe Jesus. I just don't believe your rhetoric. It's obvious that this is a salvation issue for you since you brought up Judgement Day and you continuously make such a big fuss about the sabbath day. You need to make sure that you are trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) come Judgment Day and not in law keeping. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 2:16) Believing in your eisegesis is not the same as believing in what Jesus taught.

More eisegesis on your part. Matthew 24:16 - “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. You left out verse 16 from your OP which sinks your premise. Praying that "your flight not be on the Sabbath or winter" in verse 20 has to do with "let those in Judea flee" in verse 16. Matthew 24:20 applies to those living in Judea. The Israelites would understood this.

Travel for pregnant and nursing women would be very difficult. Winter cold would make travel extremely difficult along with closed city gates, laws against carrying loads, laws against traveling more than a short distance, laws against buying and selling on the Sabbath. (Exodus 16:29; Jeremiah 17:21-22; Nehemiah 13:15-19) The only reasonable explanation of Jesus' reference to the Sabbath here is that He was concerned with the difficulties these Jews would face if they were forced to leave Judea on the Sabbath day.

Jewish followers, serving as a weekly reminder of their liberation from Egypt. If the Sabbath was intended for all people, both Jew and Gentile, then why does Exodus 31:16-17 state that the Sabbath was a sign between God and the "Children of Israel" instead of clarifying that it should be kept by all people of all nations for all time?

I did not forget anything and I'm not a Jew under the law who was delivered out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:15) I find my "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

Who did God tell not to forget? See (Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:15). Who did God say shall keep the Sabbath? See (Exodus 31:16-17)

You remain with one foot on the old covenant plantation of law. Your main error is failing to rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

You keep using the figurative definition of sabbatismos, which allows for "possibilities" and ignoring the literal translation for some odd reason, but I do believe it has secondary meaning, not with your understanding of it though.

The literal translation of it means the keeping of the Sabbath, which remains for God's people.
Not sure why you keep ignoring this fact

Strong's Lexicon
sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.



Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός

σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);
1. a keeping sabbath.

2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)


The passage in Hebrews 4 really starts in Hebrews 3 and is calling people out of their rebellion to God. The gospel was preached to them, just as it is to us- same gospel Heb 4:1-2. Those who it was preached to in the wilderness did not profit because of their disobedience and could not enter their rest in Canaan.

What did the children of Israel disobey that we are told not to follow in their footsteps?

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So following the path you are teaching that Hebrews tells us not to follow is not leading people into their rest that we are told to diligently enter.

Its why the Sabbath-rest and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping, which remains for God's people.

Because God's people keep God's commandments- His version, not what was altered by man Jesus warned us about. Mat 5:18

Those who enter into Christ rest also cease from their works Heb 4:10 just as God did, on the seventh day Heb 4:4, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exo 20:10 there is no Greater Authority than God and one day you will see it, hopefully before its too late Rev 22:11

Its why NT teaching clearly states, the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment, not according to how man has trampled on God's holy and eternal law.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

I do believe there is a heavenly rest- which means one has come into peace and harmony with God's will.

This is God's will
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Heb 4:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It God's rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments- the Sabbath is a commandment of God thus saith the Lord.

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

God wrote His will to mankind which He calls His people Israel and we are only grafted in by faith.

God personally wrote His law with His own finger Exo 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice Exo 20:1 He numbered His law by design, so no one would reduce it to an unbiblical number and said they were Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 He added no more to it Deut 5:22 He collectively called them My commandments Exo 20:6 He placed it inside the ark of the covenant Exo 40:20 where the Sabbath commandment is, the only day God named and gave a number and called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God Isa 58:13 made for mankind because we are made in His image to follow Him, and said to Remember the Sabbath because He knew man would forget. God kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, His faithful close followers kept the Sabbath, the apostles kept the Sabbath. God blessed the Sabbath and man cannot reverse God's blessing. Num 23:20 Friend, your disagreement appears to be with God, not me.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

More eisegesis on your part. Matthew 24:16 - “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. You left out verse 16 from your OP which sinks your premise. Praying that "your flight not be on the Sabbath or winter" in verse 20 has to do with "let those in Judea flee" in verse 16. Matthew 24:20 applies to those living in Judea. The Israelites would understood this.

How does this change anything about this verse, it provides more context to what Jesus was predicting decades after His death. Do you even understand what this is about?

 

[mailmandan]

You keep using the figurative definition of sabbatismos, which allows for "possibilities" but I do believe it has secondary meaning, not with your understanding of it though.

The literal translation of it means the keeping of the Sabbath, which remains for God's people.
Not sure why you keep ignoring this fact

Strong's Lexicon
sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός

σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);
1. a keeping sabbath.

2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

The passage in Hebrews 4 really starts in Hebrews 3 and is calling people out of their rebellion to God. The gospel was preached to them, just as it is to us- same gospel Heb 4:1-2. Those who it was preached to in the wilderness did not profit because of their disobedience and could not enter their rest in Canaan.

What did the children of Israel disobey that we are told not to follow in their footsteps?

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So following the path you are teaching that Hebrews tells us not to follow is not leading people into their rest that we are told to diligently enter.

Its why the Sabbath-rest and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping, which remains for God's people.

Because God's people keep God's commandments- His version, not what was altered by man Jesus warned us about. Mat 5:18

Those who enter into Christ rest also cease from their works Heb 4:10 just as God did, on the seventh day Heb 4:4, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exo 20:10 there is no Greater Authority than God and one day you will see it, hopefully before its too late Rev 22:11

Its why NT teaching clearly states, the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment, not according to how man has trampled on God's holy and eternal law.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

I do believe there is a heavenly rest- which means one has come into peace and harmony with God's will.

This is God's will
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Heb 4:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God wrote His will to mankind which He calls His people Israel and we are only grafted in by faith.

God personally wrote His law with His own finger Exo 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice Exo 20:1 He numbered His law by design, so no one would reduce it to an unbiblical number and said they were Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 He added no more to it Deut 5:22 He placed it inside the ark of the covenant Exo 40:20 where the Sabbath commandment is, the only day God named and gave a number and called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God Isa 58:13 made for mankind because we are made in His image to follow Him, and said to Remember the Sabbath because He knew man would forget. God kept the Sabbath, Jesus kept the Sabbath, His faithful close followers kept the Sabbath, the apostles kept the Sabbath. God blessed the Sabbath and man cannot reverse God's blessing. Num 23:20 Friend, your disagreement appears to be with God, not me.

Don't confuse physical Israel in the OT with spiritual Israel in the NT. Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Everyone should take note that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible.

You can argue all you want for "keeping the weekly sabbath" here yet this word is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Believers have entered in God’s rest through Jesus as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work.

The "sabbatismos" rest (Hebrews 4:9) enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son is in contrast with keeping the weekly Sabbath day under the Law.

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find complete "sabbatismos" rest in Jesus Christ and not in law keeping.

 

[mailmandan]

How does this change anything about this verse, it provides more context to what Jesus was predicting decades after His death. Do you even understand what this is about?

I find it interesting that Ellen G White took this same Bible passage that had nothing to do with Sabbath observance by Christians and used it in a manner that is inconsistent with the context of the verse as well. Jesus was not imploring Christians to pray that they would not need to escape upon the Sabbath so that they would not break the fourth commandment. The context of the verse is clearly pointing to the physical difficulties of traveling for the Israelites towards the end when persecution comes.

https://www.nonsda.org/egw/egw101.shtml

 

[hornetguy]

So when did the Sabbath commandment end, please show me a verse when it ended.

Where is the verse that says that animal sacrifices end? If sacrifices were commanded in order to "keep the law", then they are on the same level as all the many rules about how to "keep" the sabbath.
Jesus said in Matthew 5 that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to FULFILL it. Which means, that when he became our once and final sacrifice, he brought us a new covenant, or "law"... he even went on to elaborate on what he meant.... all of the "you have heard it said....." verses... explaining how his new covenant eliminated the restrictive, un-keepable laws that the Jews were under. He fulfilled all those laws. We are not bound by the jots and tittles, the minuteae of Jewish "laws"....

Jesus' law is one that is written in our hearts, not on tablets of stone. THAT is why he said, these are your two commandments... because if you live by those two commandments, you will naturally fulfill all the "carved in stone" 10....

You 7DA's are trying to put us back under the law of Moses, which essentially dismisses Jesus' sacrifice for us. I will be no part of that, and you should pray for forgiveness for your own wickedness in trying to go back to the old law....

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Don't confuse physical Israel in the OT with spiritual Israel in the NT. Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Everyone should take note that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible.

You can argue all you want for "keeping the weekly sabbath" here yet this word is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Believers have entered in God’s rest through Jesus as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work.

The "sabbatismos" rest (Hebrews 4:9) enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son is in contrast with keeping the weekly Sabbath day under the Law.

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find complete "sabbatismos" rest in Jesus Christ and not in law keeping.

You keep repeating the same thing and ignoring the context. Like when Jesus ceased His works- on the seventh day

Heb 4:4 For He (God)has spoken in a certain place (Mt Sinai) of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

You pretend this is not here, but yet it is. God rested on the seventh day from all His works

Those who enter into Christ rest ALSO cease their works as God did, on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath Exo 20:10, thus saith the Lord.

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56

The way you are teaching this, is actually doing the opposite of what this passage is trying to warn us about- coming out of rebellion to God Heb 3:7-8. Not to follow the same path of disobedience Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11 who broke the Sabbath and did not enter into their rest in Canaan. It also goes against what Christ taught and lived.

 

[vassal]

We don't teach lawlessness because everyone knows how to be lawless without
even being taught.

We teach Christ crucified for salvation.

The law has nothing to do with salvation.

The law simply tells you that your lawless.

Answer me this, a simple question Inquisitor, what was Jesus teaching?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Where is the verse that says that animal sacrifices end? If sacrifices were commanded in order to "keep the law", then they are on the same level as all the many rules about how to "keep" the sabbath.
Jesus said in Matthew 5 that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to FULFILL it. Which means, that when he became our once and final sacrifice, he brought us a new covenant, or "law"... he even went on to elaborate on what he meant.... all of the "you have heard it said....." verses... explaining how his new covenant eliminated the restrictive, un-keepable laws that the Jews were under. He fulfilled all those laws. We are not bound by the jots and tittles, the minuteae of Jewish "laws"....

Jesus' law is one that is written in our hearts, not on tablets of stone. THAT is why he said, these are your two commandments... because if you live by those two commandments, you will naturally fulfill all the "carved in stone" 10....

You 7DA's are trying to put us back under the law of Moses, which essentially dismisses Jesus' sacrifice for us. I will be no part of that, and you should pray for forgiveness for your own wickedness in trying to go back to the old law....

I am glad you asked these questions, its huge study, but all the answers are in our bibles. I will be back soon when I have more time to provide the scriptures.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I find it interesting that Ellen G White took this same Bible passage that had nothing to do with Sabbath observance by Christians and used it in a manner that is inconsistent with the context of the verse as well. Jesus was not imploring Christians to pray that they would not need to escape upon the Sabbath so that they would not break the fourth commandment. The context of the verse is clearly pointing to the physical difficulties of traveling for the Israelites towards the end when persecution comes.

https://www.nonsda.org/egw/egw101.shtml

Is this your way of saying you do not have a biblical answer why Jesus said the Sabbath would not end after His death some 40 years later.

 

[mailmandan]

You keep repeating the same thing and ignoring the context. Like when Jesus ceased His works- on the seventh day

Heb 4:4 For He (God)has spoken in a certain place (Mt Sinai) of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

You pretend this is not here, but yet it is. God rested on the seventh day from all His works

Those who enter into Christ rest ALSO cease their works as God did, on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath Exo 20:10, thus saith the Lord.

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56

The way you are teaching this, is actually doing the opposite of what this passage is trying to warn us about- coming out of rebellion to God Heb 3:7-8. Not to follow the same path of disobedience Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11 who broke the Sabbath and did not enter into their rest in Canaan. It also goes against what Christ taught and lived.

Hebrews 4:1 - Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

I have not ignored the context. You simply miss the deeper spiritual meaning. In Hebrews 4:10, "ceasing from works" means to stop striving to earn God's favor through our own efforts and instead, to rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ, full trusting in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Unfortunately, you continue instead to not cease from your efforts to work your way into God's favor through commandment keeping (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). You still need to find your "sabbatismos" rest in Christ. I don't pretend that God did not rest on the seventh day from all His works and I also don't pretend that the word "sabbatismos" in Hebrews 4:9 is found NOWHERE ELSE IN THE BIBLE as you do.

Who was God addressing in Exodus 20:10? See verse 2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. The Israelites.

Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought YOU out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Exodus 31:16 - Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I have not ignored the context. You simply miss the deeper spiritual meaning. In Hebrews 4:10, "ceasing from works" means to stop striving to earn God's favor through our own efforts and instead, to rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ, full trusting in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

So when did Jesus strive to earn God's favor through His own efforts?

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When did God cease from His works?

Heb 4:4 For He (God)has spoken in a certain place (Mt Sinai) of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

Its best to let scripture define Itself, especially when it is God speaking.

 

[mailmandan]

Is this your way of saying you do not have a biblical answer why Jesus said the Sabbath would not end after His death some 40 years later.

Who was commanded to keep the sabbath day in the first place? (Exodus 20:2; Exodus 31:16-17; Deuteronomy 5:15) What did Paul say about the sabbath day? (Colossians 2:16-17) Your argument is redundant. Have you read the article? Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.