Understanding God’s election

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

True Judaism will return at the Second Advent and continue through the Millennium.
Instead of sacrificing animals for sin, the sacrifices will be performed as memorials to
the Cross, much like we now see with the Church having communion for today.

True Judaism is receiving praise from God rather than from men. That's the true circumcision that's right here, right now.

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:25-29​

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[rogerg]

But.....I have already posted the requisite critical lecture studies and nobody (of the Calvinite ilk) CHOOSES to hear them.

Correct, but we do extend our deepest sympathies and prayers to anyone who is unfortunate enough to hear your lectures.

 

[Rufus]

An unfree will makes man no different from (and no more accountable for behavior than )animals that are not created in God’s image so that definition is not Scriptural.

False! Man is still made in God's image, although that image has become badly marred/distorted after the Fall.

 

[GWH]

I could, but I don't so choose. I do, however, choose to believe you are. I've already posited that people can make choices.

C'mon, Cameron, don't go silly on me by saying you think I believe Moses and Jesus were being disingenuous when they spoke DT 19:30 and MT 23:37, when I said I choose to believe they were serious.

My serious understanding of what you posit is that people's "cognitive processes have been made subject to corruption. They maintain the ability to choose, but their choices are markedly different given the corruption." That is doublespeak.

What makes the ability to choose real or morally/salvationally significant is that the chooser can/is able to select either one of two options that have opposite consequences: life or death, blessing or curse, Christ or I-dolatry, etc. If God disallows one of these opposite options, then humanness or moral accountability is abrogated/nullified and the POS is a farce. An all-loving God might as well predestine all humanity to choose only the good from the beginning and be done. Enough of the charade!

 

[Rufus]

With demons reigning them in, down a road they find themselves on.
Rounding them up like sheep.

I was Jewish. I had demons pressuring me to stay with Judaism.

Well, Mr. Former Judaism, I want for you to know that we're in the eternal New Covenant age and the clock will never be turned back to the types and shadows of the Old Covenant which is forever obsolete and finally passed into the dustbin of history in 70 A.D. The Old is ancient history. Therefore, all the prophecies made to the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be fulfilled within the framework of the New Covenant.

 

[Rufus]

C'mon, Cameron, don't go silly on me by saying you think I believe Moses and Jesus were being disingenuous when they spoke DT 19:30 and MT 23:37, when I said I choose to believe they were serious.

My serious understanding of what you posit is that people's "cognitive processes have been made subject to corruption. They maintain the ability to choose, but their choices are markedly different given the corruption." That is doublespeak.

What makes the ability to choose real or morally/salvationally significant is that the chooser can/is able to select either one of two options that have opposite consequences: life or death, blessing or curse, Christ or I-dolatry, etc. If God disallows one of these opposite options, then humanness or moral accountability is abrogated/nullified and the POS is a farce. An all-loving God might as well predestine all humanity to choose only the good from the beginning and be done. Enough of the charade!

It is not doublespeak. All moral entities (including God!) have only the ability to make choices that comport with their nature. There's a reason why God cannot sin: it's because he cannot choose against this thrice holy nature. Likewise, there's a reason why fallen man cannot not sin...because he can only choose to do evil. No unregenerate man is good and no one does good!

 

[Genez]

True Judaism is receiving praise from God rather than from men. That's the true circumcision that's right here, right now.

Why only Judaism?
It's good for Christians, too.

Judaism, when worshiping the One True God, does not make Christians into Jews if Christians worship the One True God.

What you are saying is like this:

Sneakers have shoelaces.
But, that does not make shoes into sneakers when they have shoelaces.

You muddle things up way too easily.
You need to stop what you are doing and to do a better job of testing the spirits before all else.

...............

 

[Genez]

It is not doublespeak. All moral entities (including God!) have only the ability to make choices that comport with their nature. There's a reason why God cannot sin: it's because he cannot choose against this thrice holy nature. Likewise, there's a reason why fallen man cannot not sin...because he can only choose to do evil. No unregenerate man is good and no one does good!

God transcends morality.

 

[Genez]

Well, Mr. Former Judaism, I want for you to know that we're in the eternal New Covenant age and the clock will never be turned back to the types and shadows of the Old Covenant which is forever obsolete and finally passed into the dustbin of history in 70 A.D. The Old is ancient history. Therefore, all the prophecies made to the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be fulfilled within the framework of the New Covenant.

Judaism is not about living under the Law.
It's much more than that.

The Law was simply given to the Jews.
The Law did not make them Jews.

 

[Rufus]

Though he does not have the power to do so?
Man can still wish to never sin!

That is what God saves,.
Because it merits salvation!

God grants impotent men the wish/desire for righteousness!

But impotent, unregenerate sinners never desire righteousness. Their thoughts and intentions are evil continuously!

But I do thank you for finally getting around to explicitly stating how God-hating, Christ-hating, truth-hating sinners merit God's grace, which in itself is an oxymoron.

Even the very first, secular definition of "grace" defines it as, "unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification" (MW Collegiate Dictionary). (The operative term in the definition is "unmerited" for your info.

 

[Cameron143]

C'mon, Cameron, don't go silly on me by saying you think I believe Moses and Jesus were being disingenuous when they spoke DT 19:30 and MT 23:37, when I said I choose to believe they were serious.

My serious understanding of what you posit is that people's "cognitive processes have been made subject to corruption. They maintain the ability to choose, but their choices are markedly different given the corruption." That is doublespeak.

What makes the ability to choose real or morally/salvationally significant is that the chooser can/is able to select either one of two options that have opposite consequences: life or death, blessing or curse, Christ or I-dolatry, etc. If God disallows one of these opposite options, then humanness or moral accountability is abrogated/nullified and the POS is a farce. An all-loving God might as well predestine all humanity to choose only the good from the beginning and be done. Enough of the charade!

I think your basic premise is faulty. Man is accountable because he sins. There is no requirement in scripture that says man must know he is sinning to be held accountable.
If you are stopped by a law enforcement professional and he or she gives you a citation for a law you are unfamiliar with, are you any less guilty. Nope. Similarity, if you transgress one of God's laws you are guilty whether you recognize the transgression or not.
What God does say is that man can know of the existence of God through creation, providence, and conscience. Nowhere does it say man has the ability to apply reason as a means of entering into an intimate knowledge of God. In fact the opposite is true. The world through wisdom knows not God...1 Corinthians 1:21. Further, entrance into a relationship with God in Christ comes as a matter of the revelation of God to an individual...Matthew 16:15-17. Keep reading and you find that this is how Jesus is building His church.
So far from being a charade, I'm attempting to show you what the scripture reveals about the fallen estate of man and its affect on mankind. This is in addition to all the verses I know @Magenta has shared with you concerning the impact of sin on the will of man.
So stop considering what you think must be true of God and allow what scripture actually reveals to shape your understanding.

 

[Rufus]

God transcends morality.

Give me chapter and verse on that. And how can God transcend morality when Jesus called his Father "GOOD"! Was not Jesus making a moral/spiritual statement about his Father's moral character? (When we say that Satan is an evil entity, are we not also making a statement about his moral character?) Also, there is no spiritual/moral darkness in God, as he is pure Light; therefore, this is another statement that bears witness to the fact God is indeed a moral being.

Moreover, God must be a moral being since he created man to bear his image. And the one of the ways that man bears that image is because he was created as a moral entity -- just like God is. Man bears God's image because we're personal, rational, emotional, volitional and conscience-bearing creatures. All these attributes are what makes us different from the animals.

 

[Genez]

But impotent, unregenerate sinners never desire righteousness. Their thoughts and intentions are evil continuously!

You are a natural master of snatching verses out of their context, and then imposing your desired intent upon them.

Genesis 6:5 speaks of the time when mankind had collectively become totally corrupted in their thinking due to the demonic infiltration that had taken place in previous verses!

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, ​

and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.​

​

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 6:5​

​

You know no shame.

Proverbs 12:1


.......

 

[cv5]

Correct, but we do extend our deepest sympathies and prayers to anyone who is unfortunate enough to hear your lectures.

Well then I suppose we could conclude that I am cursed with knowledge and you are blessed with ignorance.

This is the Calvinite way.

 

[cv5]

You are a natural master of snatching verses out of their context, and then imposing your desired intent upon them.

Genesis 6:5 speaks of the time when mankind had collectively become totally corrupted in their thinking due to the demonic infiltration that had taken place in previous verses!

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, ​

and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.​

​

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 6:5​

​

You know no shame.

Proverbs 12:1


.......

Agree.

Furthermore, God will ALWAYS intervene when there is forbidden interaction between angels and men.

Intervene with massive devastating judgements. Same situation happened at Babel and Canaan.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why only Judaism?
It's good for Christians, too.

Judaism, when worshiping the One True God, does not make Christians into Jews if Christians worship the One True God.

What you are saying is like this:

Sneakers have shoelaces.
But, that does not make shoes into sneakers when they have shoelaces.

You muddle things up way too easily.
You need to stop what you are doing and to do a better job of testing the spirits before all else.

...............

What I'm saying is that natural considerations no longer apply

 

[rogerg]

Well then I suppose we could conclude that I am cursed with knowledge and you are blessed with ignorance.

This is the Calvinite way.

You may have knowledge, but you lack spiritual discernment, and spiritual discernment is what matters.

 

[Rufus]

Evidently not so helpless that we are incapable of first hearing and then executing the COMMAND to pick up the axe head that has been the object of a miracle by the Man of God aka the God Man.

[2Ki 6:4 KJV]
So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood.

[2Ki 6:5 KJV]
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

[2Ki 6:6 KJV]
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast [it] in thither; and the iron did swim.

[2Ki 6:7 KJV]
Therefore said he, Take [it] up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
=============================================================================

Or.....you could hide/bury the talent and walk away if you so DESIRE/WILL it.

Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

The MAN of GOD heard and obeyed God's command -- not a depraved, degenerate, vile sinner! The man who obeyed was a servant of the prophet Elisha!

Context counts!

 

[cv5]

The MAN of GOD heard and obeyed God's command -- not a depraved, degenerate, vile sinner! The man who obeyed was a servant of the prophet Elisha!

Context counts!

That's what you cane up with?

Bummer to be you.

 

[Rufus]

You are a natural master of snatching verses out of their context, and then imposing your desired intent upon them.

Genesis 6:5 speaks of the time when mankind had collectively become totally corrupted in their thinking due to the demonic infiltration that had taken place in previous verses!

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, ​

and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.​

​

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 6:5​

​

You know no shame.

Proverbs 12:1


.......

And you don't know your bible! Human nature has not changed! Also, Satan and his horde still roam the earth creating all manner of mayhem among the sons of men.

And you conveniently overlook God's own post-diluvian commentary on the human race to wit:

Gen 8:21
21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
NIV

Notice the present tense of the verb "is"!

This is because the sons of men drink evil like water (Job 15:16)!

I perceive that even Judas, the vile betrayer of the Messiah, was more righteous than you after he sinned, since he did not blame Satan who possessed him for his murderous deed but instead felt his own guilt so deeply he took his own life!

And what part of Rom 3:10ff. don't you get -- which is Paul's UNIVERSAL indictment against mankind?

Why are you so ignorant of the scriptures?