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E
Yes it is, And this is why Paul faught so hard against the legalistic jews trying to return to law. and others who held to a legalistic works based Gospel. Paul went so far as to say these doctrines should be anathema'd. We should keep up the fight against this dangerous doctrine preached by most churches these days.
Good grief. Seems there is no end or depth too deep. One can only imagine what lies ahead for those who finally attain sinlessness in their flesh ..........and are become just like Jesus ! 
i don't know that the NT of church history records Jesus saving individuals by meeting them in their bedrooms and discussing people who use screen names. not quite sure if that's how The Lord works.
i was fairly certain He is seated in heaven right now, reigning and ruling, making intercession for the saints, being the Mediator.
i thought unsaved men were brought to repentence and justification through the preaching of the Law & Gospel by the convicting and convincing power of The Holy spirit.
that until that time, they are dead in trespasses and sins and are natural men, unable to understand the things that are spiritual.
but hey: GOD IS DOING A NEW THING I HEAR.
*shrug*
anyways........Cobus i'll keep waiting for a clear transmission of what Jesus actually told you about ZZ.
if ZZ isn't me, perhaps i can help find them, since they'll need to know this critical news.
yes, see, being the somewhat conservative Lutheran-esque believer that i am, i was a little surprised to learn Jesus, who on the one hand doesn't listen to sinners they say, yet on the other hand is intimately and regularly visiting personally and having conversations wtih an unsaved sinner, about others....people who DO make a claim to having been called out and forgiven...saved by Grace through faith ALONE.
i wonder how it works.....
just have to wait on Cobus to explain.
it's a pretty serious claim (very common these days), but most assuredly one that The Lord takes notice of if it is untrue.
i wonder how it works.....
just have to wait on Cobus to explain.
it's a pretty serious claim (very common these days), but most assuredly one that The Lord takes notice of if it is untrue.
E
if it is by works (if it must be earned) it is no longer grace. otherwise Grace is no longer grace.
It is so sad to hear that people have heard the message of grace, and be climbing that mountain and trying to understand it to have faith in it. And before they get to the top where they fully understand, they fall off the mountain because they try to add works.
Yes, Christ has no value for them. Because when Christ said "it is finished" Christ did not mean it. He still needs us to add to his work, to have a complete set of works worthy of salvation.
It is so sad to hear that people have heard the message of grace, and be climbing that mountain and trying to understand it to have faith in it. And before they get to the top where they fully understand, they fall off the mountain because they try to add works.
Yes, Christ has no value for them. Because when Christ said "it is finished" Christ did not mean it. He still needs us to add to his work, to have a complete set of works worthy of salvation.
M
How cute. The simple fact of the matter is that only a handful of people are willing to live a holy righteous life, free of the sin & the ways of this world, loving God & others always. (as instructed in the Bible) In todays widespread Christiandom, we find it far easier to find a watered down form of Christianity that fits our lifestyle rather than to fit our lifestyle into that of a God respecting Christian. Excuses are many & diverse to the extreme. That's why so many claim to "follow" instead of "be like" (They were 1st called "Christians" because they were "Like the Christ) Really.....Who really desires to be like Jesus, Loving God & others always. Living a Holy & Righteous Life free of the sins & the ways of this world. Probally don't even have to take your shoes off to count that high. Makes me think of the "Left Behind" story..They forget to inform everyone that only those that are "one with God" as Jesus is one with God gets a seat on that bus, so expect to see all of us "right behind" the other still here, not missing anybody. May God grant you the ability to be Like Jesus! Oh, that's right, He already has. Peace in Christ be with you always.
E
No, this is not true.
The fact of the matter MANY try to live a holy righteous life, free of sin and the ways of this world. The problem is. Only one person has ever done it. His name is Jesus.
Trying to do it is not the argument, we all try (unless we are licentious) Thinking you ever will make it is the argument. John makes it clear. If we say we have no presnt active sin in our lives, we decieve ourselves and truth is not in us.
If John states that those who claim to have no sin are liars. We listen to John.
It does not mean we do not "run the race". If we think we made it. why run? Why continue to go further. You have made it. You no longer need Christ, You no longer need grace. You have attained what only one man on earth ever has. Sinless perfection.
The pharisees thought they were sinless Also. We see where it got them.
The fact of the matter MANY try to live a holy righteous life, free of sin and the ways of this world. The problem is. Only one person has ever done it. His name is Jesus.
Trying to do it is not the argument, we all try (unless we are licentious) Thinking you ever will make it is the argument. John makes it clear. If we say we have no presnt active sin in our lives, we decieve ourselves and truth is not in us.
If John states that those who claim to have no sin are liars. We listen to John.
It does not mean we do not "run the race". If we think we made it. why run? Why continue to go further. You have made it. You no longer need Christ, You no longer need grace. You have attained what only one man on earth ever has. Sinless perfection.
The pharisees thought they were sinless Also. We see where it got them.
E
Thats funny, Abraham was considered righteous. yet what does scripture say about him?
He cheated on his wife with their maid.
He laughed at God when God said Sarai would have a child.
He posed of his wife as his sister because he did not trust God to save her.
I am sure there were many other things he did.
what about David. A man God called his "friend"
He committed adultery many times over, (even though multiple marriages was seen as ok in Davids time, it was still a sin to have more than one wife) Not to mention the one he committed with another mans wife.
He committed murder.
two of the most heinous sins considered by most people. If we did not have scripture and know what God said about david. I bet most of these people would claim neither of these men were of God.
He cheated on his wife with their maid.
He laughed at God when God said Sarai would have a child.
He posed of his wife as his sister because he did not trust God to save her.
I am sure there were many other things he did.
what about David. A man God called his "friend"
He committed adultery many times over, (even though multiple marriages was seen as ok in Davids time, it was still a sin to have more than one wife) Not to mention the one he committed with another mans wife.
He committed murder.
two of the most heinous sins considered by most people. If we did not have scripture and know what God said about david. I bet most of these people would claim neither of these men were of God.
hi monster.
i agree.
though i'm always a little amazed at how one is able to state things like "only a handful of people are willing to live a righteous life"....when there are millions and millions who claim the Name of Jesus. i certainly haven't observed them all in their lives to know that.
and curious kinda that those who make those statements include themselves in that handful.
the metrics part aside, i agree. this is due to unsound teaching in church these days i believe.
we all agree that God's Word is able to perform its work, in all ways, bringing men to faith AND reforming the christian, transforming lives, and sanctifying them, conforming them to be like Jesus. but the Word of God, our daily bread along with our new heart and prayers is required for real solid growth. and the fellowship of unified believers.
things are so upside down today with what comes from many pulpits; what passes for assembly....the noisy, "hip" unruly mega-type stuff, the anecdotal stories or life lessons from the pulpit aren't helpful (for me anyways)
i prefer order, decency, peace, and preferably preaching using a Lectionary....anyways, maybe off topic, but the words of God read week to week and daily as individuals is our way to righteousness and holiness.
i agree.
though i'm always a little amazed at how one is able to state things like "only a handful of people are willing to live a righteous life"....when there are millions and millions who claim the Name of Jesus. i certainly haven't observed them all in their lives to know that.
and curious kinda that those who make those statements include themselves in that handful.
the metrics part aside, i agree. this is due to unsound teaching in church these days i believe.
we all agree that God's Word is able to perform its work, in all ways, bringing men to faith AND reforming the christian, transforming lives, and sanctifying them, conforming them to be like Jesus. but the Word of God, our daily bread along with our new heart and prayers is required for real solid growth. and the fellowship of unified believers.
things are so upside down today with what comes from many pulpits; what passes for assembly....the noisy, "hip" unruly mega-type stuff, the anecdotal stories or life lessons from the pulpit aren't helpful (for me anyways)
i prefer order, decency, peace, and preferably preaching using a Lectionary....anyways, maybe off topic, but the words of God read week to week and daily as individuals is our way to righteousness and holiness.
E
Phil 3: 12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
Here is a man who had already spent countless years being an apostle of God. Who had shown through miracles and signs, including speaking in tongues and prophesying, that from the time of his conversion, until he wrote these words, he had more of the power of the HS and more faith in this power and in God than most people will ever attain in their whole life. Saying he has yet to attain perfection. But he continued to run the race.
I doubt there are many, if at all, men or women on earth today who had the faith and power that Paul had up to this point in paul's life. And to think that anyone would claim to have more power than paul to be sinless is just laughable beyond all measure.
If Paul had not made it by this time in his life. There is no chance in Gods green Earth I have any hope of making it!
Here is a man who had already spent countless years being an apostle of God. Who had shown through miracles and signs, including speaking in tongues and prophesying, that from the time of his conversion, until he wrote these words, he had more of the power of the HS and more faith in this power and in God than most people will ever attain in their whole life. Saying he has yet to attain perfection. But he continued to run the race.
I doubt there are many, if at all, men or women on earth today who had the faith and power that Paul had up to this point in paul's life. And to think that anyone would claim to have more power than paul to be sinless is just laughable beyond all measure.
If Paul had not made it by this time in his life. There is no chance in Gods green Earth I have any hope of making it!