Understanding God’s election

[fredoheaven]

The Book of Romans was written to the called, them that had Faith Rom 1:6-8

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

So ethnicity isnt an issue, though the people of faith were some jews but mostly gentiles, yet people of Faith

Called to be saints because of their faith in Christ

 

[Magenta]

Revelation 3:8; Luke 1:24 ~ Behold, I have placed before you an open door, which no one can shut. Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .

 

[fredoheaven]

Absolutely correct, brightfame52. This is seen in the salutation of the book where Peter makes clear that he is specifically addressing God's elect, not everyone. Therefore, the "us-ward" and "all" (KJV) or the "you" and "everyone" (NIV) of 2 Pet 3:9, is speaking of God's longsuffering towards them - that God is not willing that they perish. And from that, God gives repentance as a gift upon spiritual rebirth.

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness

[2Pe 1:1 NIV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

[2Pe 3:9 KJV]
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


[2Pe 3:9 NIV]
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The context is somewhat a description of a matured, tested faith which has been added with diligence like virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience and godliness etc vv.5-7 being acquired like of the apostles, hence, called it precious.
For salvation requires faith ( no descriptive word) as in 1 Peter 1:5. It is no more then describing believers growing faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Called to be saints because of their faith in Christ

They were called before they believed in Christ, hence called first then justified by faith Rom8:29

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Genez]

No it's the Jewish people.

Some Gentiles suffer from Jewish-envy.
Its like a girl that wants to be a boy...
They want to be called Jewish. "Spiritual Jewish."

But...

They fail to realize that Noah pleased God.
Noah was a Gentile.
Also, when Abraham was first called?
Abraham was a Gentile!

......

 

[fredoheaven]

They were called before they believed in Christ, hence called first then justified by faith Rom8:29

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

They were called so that they could come in faith. It is a public invitation.

 

[Magenta]

They were called before they believed in Christ

It is a wonder that things like this actually have to be spelled out...

 

[brightfame52]

They were called so that they could come in faith. It is a public invitation.

False

 

[Rufus]

Why do you always keep dragging the conversation down to the emotional level of a ninth grader?
Those must have been your glory days.
Since you do not want to give it up to grow up.
That takes humility.

Oh...so my examples that I provided caused you emotional stress, did they, and this is why your cerebral motor shut down and you "freewill" couldn't crank it up again?

 

[Rufus]

I don't know and neither do you. We do know that they were not willingly functioning in God's plan. One of God's HARSH punishments for believers is physical death.......Saved as if through fire. ALL believers will enter eternal life, but not all will inherit all rewards. So we don't know who was saved and who was not.

ON THAT DAY. He never knew them. Judgement day. ON THAT DAY, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess.....All unbelievers.

And they will "plead" their case with their good deeds. And He shall say, I never knew you......They never PERSONALLY believed in the Lord.

And add this one to your list. And Jesus never personally KNEW any of them!

And, yes, I do know because God's revelation has made it known to everyone who has eyes to see or ears to hear! But you don't want to know. Ignorance must be very blissful for you.

 

[Rufus]

Yes, I agree, it is, and I hope you don't share it with unsaved people.




Because they are lost and in need of a Savior, just like you. The only difference is the Blood applied.

Yes...but they have that SUPER FREEWILL that can do things God cannot do! The lost can most definitely find their OWN WAY in the La La Land of Freewill. All they have to do is choose to do so.

 

[Genez]

Called to be saints because of their faith in Christ

Tell that one to a Catholic?

 

[Rufus]

John 6:44

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,
and I will raise them up at the last day. "


Why did Jesus say that?

Becuase he was rebuking the Jewish salvation by works crowd who were seeking new works to do in order to secure salvation.

Oh...so that only applies to the Jews, heh? But how come Jesus didn't simply tell them to exercise their totally FREE will and believe on him? Why bring the Father into it when the drawing isn't even effectual? Or is it...for Jews only?

 

[Genez]

Oh...so my examples that I provided caused you emotional stress, did they, and this is why your cerebral motor shut down and you "freewill" couldn't crank it up again?

No emotional stress on my part.
More like annoyance because I wish to have an objective discussion.

Annoyance because your locked in pattern is leading you straight into losing rewards and blessings that could glorify Christ.

It's a waste....

 

[Rufus]

Romans 11

11 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[d]
Ingrafted Branches
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Doxology
33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and[i] knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”[j]
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”[k]
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.


All three chapers, nothing removed. Please show me where it is about Gentiles and not the Jewish people.

So why did Paul address his epistle to Gentile believers if there is no application for them? It seems to me that one of the other apostles could have addressed this issue when they were writing to messianic believers.

 

[Genez]

Oh...so that only applies to the Jews, heh? But how come Jesus didn't simply tell them to exercise their totally FREE will and believe on him? Why bring the Father into it when the drawing isn't even effectual? Or is it...for Jews only?

It so happened to be Jews. Because Jews were the ones He came to.

Today it could apply to anyone who is trying to secure their salvation by works.

 

[JMH]

They were called so that they could come in faith. It is a public invitation.

There's 2 callings, outer calling and inner calling

Outer call is audible like when you are sitting in Church or listening to Gods word on line..
Inner call is the work of the Holy Spirit, not us.

 

[Rufus]

No emotional stress on my part.
More like annoyance because I wish to have an objective discussion.

Annoyance because your locked in pattern is leading you straight into losing rewards and blessings that could glorify Christ.

It's a waste....

No, you don't want any part of an objective conversation. If you did you would have addressed the examples. All you want to do is distract, deflect and insult people.

 

[Rufus]

It so happened to be Jews. Because Jews were the ones He came to.

Today it could apply to anyone who is trying to secure their salvation by works.

But you didn't answer my question. Why bring the Father's drawing [grace] into it since it's totally uneffectual?

 

[Genez]

So why did Paul address his epistle to Gentile believers if there is no application for them? It seems to me that one of the other apostles could have addressed this issue when they were writing to messianic believers.

Paul was illustrating his point, using the Jews of the past, to show the Gentiles that now that they are being in Christ, are equal to the Jews in their relation to God. That they now have the same advantages, that before the Church age began, as the Jews used to have exclusive rights to.

It was written about Jews, to Gentiles, to show a truth they needed to learn to accept.