Understanding God’s election

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lrs68

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Rufus said:
The only thing the people in Rom 1 received from God was NATURAL revelation that EVERYONE observes through his creation. They did not get divine revelation, a/k/a Special Revelation.
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To understand there is a True God is a spiritual revelation because the natural could never grasp that notion.
 
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Rufus

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lrs68 said:
First of all, Paul did not write in chapter and verse so when you read chapter 8 and the beginning of 10 the message is a complete thought.

But I agree the Potter can do as He desires to the clay. But if you continue reading you see Paul does show us the Jews have hope.
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And that "hope...the Jews have" is expressed in Rom 11:2, which harmonizes nicely with Rom 9:6-8.
 
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lrs68

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Rufus said:
And that "hope...the Jews have" is expressed in Rom 11:2, which harmonizes nicely with Rom 9:6-8.
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And we still have millions of Jews coming to Yeshua since 1948 and soon will fulfill the calling for the LORD (gather her chicks like a mother hen).
 
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Rufus

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lrs68 said:
To understand there is a True God is a spiritual revelation because the natural could never grasp that notion.
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No! Spiritual Revelation can only come from that which is SPIRITUAL. The earthly is not spiritual. Nor is the material universe! No one is going to look up at the sky and see the Gospel spelled out for them.
 
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Rufus

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lrs68 said:
And we still have millions of Jews coming to Yeshua since 1948 and soon will fulfill the calling for the LORD (gather her chicks like a mother hen).
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And all of them God "foreknew" and all of them have been "children of the promise".
 
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lrs68

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Rufus said:
No! Spiritual Revelation can only come from that which is SPIRITUAL. The earthly is not spiritual. Nor is the material universe! No one is going to look up at the sky and see the Gospel spelled out for them.
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No one believes YHWH is God without the revelation being spiritual. Your problem is you keep ignoring that God manifested Himself to them. Manifesting is a spiritual act.
 
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Rufus

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lrs68 said:
The people of Romans 1 are indeed as you paint but that doesn't mean people with the same manifestation always rejected God.
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And this means that the people who didn't reject God were saved by the power of his grace. They were raised from the dead so that they could believe.
 
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lrs68

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Rufus said:
And this means that the people who didn't reject God were saved by the power of his grace. They were raised from the dead so that they could believe.
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I do agree but it does show those who reject and accept God were both revealed that God is real and exists.
 
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Rufus

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lrs68 said:
No one believes YHWH is God without the revelation being spiritual. Your problem is you keep ignoring that God manifested Himself to them. Manifesting is a spiritual act.
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The text doesn't say that. God "revealed" himself THROUGH his creation. He did not and does not supernaturally manifest himself to each person in the world.
 
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lrs68

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Rufus said:
The text doesn't say that. God "revealed" himself THROUGH his creation. He did not and does not supernaturally manifest himself to each person in the world.
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Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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lrs68 said:
I've always said the awakening comes from God. And Romans 1 proves so does the revelation of God through manifestation comes from God.
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The revelation comes from creation, and not directly from God. It is evident through natural means and not spiritual. What Peter received was spiritual and directly from God.
The first is not the substance of eternal life.
 
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lrs68

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Cameron143 said:
The revelation comes from creation, and not directly from God. It is evident through natural means and not spiritual. What Peter received was spiritual and directly from God.
The first is not the substance of eternal life.
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Honestly, we don't really know. What we do know is that they have the knowledge that God exists like I did when I believed and was filled with the Spirit of God.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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lrs68 said:
Honestly, we don't really know. What we do know is that they have the knowledge that God exists like I did when I believed and was filled with the Spirit of God.
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We do know. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Faith doesn't come from knowing God exists.
 
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lrs68

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Cameron143 said:
Some do and some don't. But biblically, hearing engenders understanding and enlightenment.
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I agree that hearing is more effective than looking at Creation and formatting the hypothesis of it must be the Most High God who did this.

But if the manifestation is something other than looking at Creation then who is to say.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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lrs68 said:
I agree that hearing is more effective than looking at Creation and formatting the hypothesis of it must be the Most High God who did this.

But if the manifestation is something other than looking at Creation then who is to say.
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Hearing is the only road to faith.
 
I

Inquisitor

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Cameron143 said:
Sure, at least enough to know of the existence of God. Do you believe what a man can know of God through creation is all there is to know of God?
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Not so much these days as science appears to explain existence, no need for a creation event.

In cities we can't even see the stars.

Not sure that what Paul was saying would apply in the 21st Century.

I believe that Jesus gave us a huge revelation of God's character.
 
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