U Misunderstand God Election

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Feb 28, 2020
52
19
8
#1
We all know who is the king of Kings and Lord of lords. (Rev 19:16)
What king did not have the Kings knights? the king's concubines? The Kings chosen group? stenographers and Messengers to carry out the Kings will? Keep that thought in mind.
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deu30:15 (common denominator.)
"In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it." Deut 30:16 Command YOU DO! You choose.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deu 30:19
Above you are commanded to choose between that which is good, His word following his Commandments, or choose that which is evil, that is set before every man woman and child all the days of their lives.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
Acts 17:30
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Pet 3:9
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34
Many verses show mans choice then Gods judgement like:
"And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not." Rev 2:21
Now lets talk about the Kings Chosen Ones, His election, to carry out His Will.
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12
Did you walk with Jesus? Were you at Antioch? were you the first to choose and trust Christ, His Cjosen men? I think NOT. Well what about us?
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Note two groups. We and Ye in Eph 1:12 & 13.
The Election, the Predestine, The Kings Men, the few, and then thrre are all the rest of us, that chose to believe and REPENT and become as the ELECTION.
One can see these two groups also in
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
Two Groups. The general assembly is to put on as the election.
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;". Col 3:12

You choose to put on as the election or not.
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6 (KJV)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,650
31,478
113
#2

from 1 Timothy 4:8-10 ~ Godliness is valuable in every way, holding promise for the present life and for the one to come. To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, Who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,086
700
113
#3
We all know who is the king of Kings and Lord of lords. (Rev 19:16)
What king did not have the Kings knights? the king's concubines? The Kings chosen group? stenographers and Messengers to carry out the Kings will? Keep that thought in mind.
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deu30:15 (common denominator.)
"In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it." Deut 30:16 Command YOU DO! You choose.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deu 30:19
Above you are commanded to choose between that which is good, His word following his Commandments, or choose that which is evil, that is set before every man woman and child all the days of their lives.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
Acts 17:30
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Pet 3:9
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34
Many verses show mans choice then Gods judgement like:
"And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not." Rev 2:21
Now lets talk about the Kings Chosen Ones, His election, to carry out His Will.
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12
Did you walk with Jesus? Were you at Antioch? were you the first to choose and trust Christ, His Cjosen men? I think NOT. Well what about us?
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Note two groups. We and Ye in Eph 1:12 & 13.
The Election, the Predestine, The Kings Men, the few, and then thrre are all the rest of us, that chose to believe and REPENT and become as the ELECTION.
One can see these two groups also in
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
Two Groups. The general assembly is to put on as the election.
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;". Col 3:12

You choose to put on as the election or not.
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6 (KJV)
I see that what I just posted on the other thread about election also applies here:

Yes, all normal human souls are free to believe or reject GW as revealed by creation, conscience and Scripture, and God chose from the beginning to save all who would seek salvation, choose to believe/have faith in Him and thereby be created or saved in Christ.

IOW, it is God's POS via the Gospel of Christ that is predestined or determined, not souls, so those who exercise volition by ignoring GW/POS justly reap condemnation in hell.

HAND :^)
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,206
693
113
#4
We all know who is the king of Kings and Lord of lords. (Rev 19:16)
What king did not have the Kings knights? the king's concubines? The Kings chosen group? stenographers and Messengers to carry out the Kings will? Keep that thought in mind.
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deu30:15 (common denominator.)
"In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it." Deut 30:16 Command YOU DO! You choose.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deu 30:19
Above you are commanded to choose between that which is good, His word following his Commandments, or choose that which is evil, that is set before every man woman and child all the days of their lives.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
Acts 17:30
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Pet 3:9
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34
Many verses show mans choice then Gods judgement like:
"And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not." Rev 2:21
Now lets talk about the Kings Chosen Ones, His election, to carry out His Will.
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12
Did you walk with Jesus? Were you at Antioch? were you the first to choose and trust Christ, His Cjosen men? I think NOT. Well what about us?
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Note two groups. We and Ye in Eph 1:12 & 13.
The Election, the Predestine, The Kings Men, the few, and then thrre are all the rest of us, that chose to believe and REPENT and become as the ELECTION.
One can see these two groups also in
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
Two Groups. The general assembly is to put on as the election.
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;". Col 3:12

You choose to put on as the election or not.
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6 (KJV)
It is done by Son on that cross for reconciliation as forgiven from God Father through Son for us the people to now be able to have a conversation with Father of risen Son. Not having anything against us, since that one time willing death in our deserved place, to me at least.
Amazing Grace given to start a new life in Father's Spirit and Truth the same Spirit of Truth that led Jesus first, to lead us new (the Holy Spirit). Now risen to live in and through us in love and mercy to all, that be the call, thank you as I Learn this truth deeper and deeper daily
Oh my!!!!!!!!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,650
31,478
113
#5

We put on the righteousness of Christ. “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Our spirit is alive because of righteousness. That should settle the issue right there, but of course it does not. A plethora
of verses are routinely ignored and outright denied in order to make the natural man the arbiter of his own salvation.
The natural man does not make a moral decision to believe what is foolishness to him in his hostile-to-God mind.
Darkness (the natural man himself) does not comprehend the Light. The stony ground of the heart is incapable
of bringing forth the good fruit of faith. We are made alive in Christ and our hearts are circumcised first.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,295
583
113
#6
We all know who is the king of Kings and Lord of lords. (Rev 19:16)
What king did not have the Kings knights? the king's concubines? The Kings chosen group? stenographers and Messengers to carry out the Kings will? Keep that thought in mind.
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deu30:15 (common denominator.)
"In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it." Deut 30:16 Command YOU DO! You choose.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deu 30:19
Above you are commanded to choose between that which is good, His word following his Commandments, or choose that which is evil, that is set before every man woman and child all the days of their lives.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
Acts 17:30
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Pet 3:9
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34
Many verses show mans choice then Gods judgement like:
"And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not." Rev 2:21
Now lets talk about the Kings Chosen Ones, His election, to carry out His Will.
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12
Did you walk with Jesus? Were you at Antioch? were you the first to choose and trust Christ, His Cjosen men? I think NOT. Well what about us?
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Note two groups. We and Ye in Eph 1:12 & 13.
The Election, the Predestine, The Kings Men, the few, and then thrre are all the rest of us, that chose to believe and REPENT and become as the ELECTION.
One can see these two groups also in
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
Two Groups. The general assembly is to put on as the election.
"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;". Col 3:12

You choose to put on as the election or not.
"When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6 (KJV)
Simply put, predestination and election are for BELIEVERS ONLY.

We are predestined to be holy and blameless/adopted and elected to His highest and best/service AFTER we believe.

Not ONE person is predestined or elected to believe or to salvation. They are blessings AFTER one believes.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,086
700
113
#7
Simply put, predestination and election are for BELIEVERS ONLY.

We are predestined to be holy and blameless/adopted and elected to His highest and best/service AFTER we believe.

Not ONE person is predestined or elected to believe or to salvation. They are blessings AFTER one believes.
Yes, and belief/faith unto becoming elect may/should be viewed as non-meritorious volition cooperating with God's will/POS.

God initiates and allows souls to cooperate--or not.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,295
583
113
#8
Yes, and belief/faith unto becoming elect may/should be viewed as non-meritorious volition cooperating with God's will/POS.

God initiates and allows souls to cooperate--or not.
Yep, pretty simple actually. Man is sin depraved. And God has been working around and through that problem since the garden. If He left us alone and to ourselves........NONE would choose Him.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,234
1,888
113
#9
I wonder why there seems to be an obsession for this topic lately.

On the main, and not the fault of any member, I see it an an indictment against poor teaching in the church.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,295
583
113
#10
I wonder why there seems to be an obsession for this topic lately
Because calvinism/reformed theology is creeping into many, many churches. And it comes in as "sneaky." It sounds really good on the surface......Even to the point of deceiving the elect?

A theology, who at its core says, " You can't believe the Gospel UNTIL your saved.".........Eat, drink and be merry if you're an unbeliever. No worries about searching, coming or believing about Christ.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,234
1,888
113
#11
Because calvinism/reformed theology is creeping into many, many churches. And it comes in as "sneaky." It sounds really good on the surface......Even to the point of deceiving the elect?

A theology, who at its core says, " You can't believe the Gospel UNTIL your saved.".........Eat, drink and be merry if you're an unbeliever. No worries about searching, coming or believing about Christ.
Yes. Calvin, highly influenced by the Age of Reason and writings about logic, begins his salvation theology from the purview of man. This is a non-starter. We should begin with the view of God.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,206
693
113
#12

We put on the righteousness of Christ. “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Our spirit is alive because of righteousness. That should settle the issue right there, but of course it does not. A plethora
of verses are routinely ignored and outright denied in order to make the natural man the arbiter of his own salvation.
The natural man does not make a moral decision to believe what is foolishness to him in his hostile-to-God mind.
Darkness (the natural man himself) does not comprehend the Light. The stony ground of the heart is incapable
of bringing forth the good fruit of faith. We are made alive in Christ and our hearts are circumcised first.
Thank you Magenta. seeing that now, after goofing around through a plethora of works, trying to be in, never can or could, God only has done it for us by Son to us, it is done fro us to be given the new at no charge from Daddy, wow!
It his, God's righteousness one does born new in God's Spirit and Truth does true Love as born new in Father, Son's truth to us to be new and not to do any more of self work(s) to get as got in past rewarded from others. Watch out, for that leaven all puffed up. Thanks for this reminder Magenta
people (Pharisees) seek proselytes to get them in with them and then make these converts making them twice the son of Hell as themselves. Be wise as a serpent, remain harmless as a dove
Trust God only, found in risen Son Learning this daily, seeing. the old me trying to get in the way again, through redirecting of stuff looking good as did to Adam and Eve in that garden, outside of the entire truth of risen Son for us, at least me I am seeing and going wow is me
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,103
1,534
113
#13
so you elect yourself?

many are called, few are chosen: Gospel is preached to all, the elect respond

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. -Acts 13:48
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,650
31,478
113
#14
so you elect yourself?

many are called, few are chosen: Gospel is preached to all, the elect respond

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. -Acts 13:48

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.
:)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,488
3,761
113
#15
Simply put, predestination and election are for BELIEVERS ONLY.

We are predestined to be holy and blameless/adopted and elected to His highest and best/service AFTER we believe.

Not ONE person is predestined or elected to believe or to salvation. They are blessings AFTER one believes.
Agreed, once in Christ through believing the gospel, the believer is elected to serve Christ, and the believer is predestined unto the adoption, to whit, the redemption of our body.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,488
3,761
113
#16
Because calvinism/reformed theology is creeping into many, many churches. And it comes in as "sneaky." It sounds really good on the surface......Even to the point of deceiving the elect?

A theology, who at its core says, " You can't believe the Gospel UNTIL your saved.".........Eat, drink and be merry if you're an unbeliever. No worries about searching, coming or believing about Christ.
Theology of a RCC priest who murdered those who opposed him.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,086
700
113
#18
Scripture can be imprecise, but HB 3:7, 15 & 4:7 says, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts... Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts... Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts...".

You might expect that after hearing it three times folks would notice that God sad says "Today... do not harden your hearts" and NOT "Today I am hardening your hearts" so that you shall never enter my rest even though you were incapable of obedience/saving faith.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,295
583
113
#19
Yes. Calvin, highly influenced by the Age of Reason and writings about logic, begins his salvation theology from the purview of man. This is a non-starter. We should begin with the view of God.
I agree. God did and is doing something about man's inability. If our focus stays on mankind.........It is hopeless. It's impossible.

God sent His Holy Spirit to convict us.....Without Him......None would be convicted.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
1,295
583
113
#20
so you elect yourself?

many are called, few are chosen:
All Are called to service. Few are chosen. And we can see this in today's world. Most can't even explain the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Whosoever believes..............They are ALL saved.