-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We as individuals (myself included) and as a whole as the body of Christ are living below the bar. Jesus said in John 14:12 that He that believes on Him and the works He had done would do greater works. I don't see it, not in my life, not in my church, not in others churches, no where. However scripture tells us in Mark 9:23 that ALL things are possible for those that believe.There must be something wrong with the way we are believing. John 7:38 Jesus said, He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. We must believe in Christ in a particular way, the way scripture tells us to. If we can align our beliefs with scripture, then and only then will we be able to accomplish what scripture promises we are capable of. We must transform our beliefs. We all believe in Christ, but do we believe as the scripture says we must? Our fruit would say no.
That being said is it ok for us to remain in mediocraty, living below the bar, being lukewarm induldging in all types of sin, and pleasures of our flesh? No it is not. Lets see what scripture says about sin inheriting the Kingdom.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornication, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Pretty clear, there is no if, and, or buts, those that live in sin will not make it to heaven.
Colossians 3:24-25
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for you serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We that serve the Lord shall receive our inheritance, but those that commit sin shall also receive what they deserve. God will not turn a blind eye to your sin, while judging others for theirs, for there is no respect with God. He treats us all equally.
Ephesians 5:1-7
1 Be you therefore followers of God as dear children,
2 And walk in love, as Christ also loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not once be named among you, as becometh saint;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
The scripture is clear, no sinner has any inheritance in the kingdom of God nor of Christ. It also emphatically states that you should not allow yourself to be deceived by vain talkers, such as those that promote the OSAS doctrine. If you partake in the sins of the world you will also partake in the wrath of God with them.
Let's see what the bible teaches about those that claim Christ name yet continue in sin.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that say unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name did many wonderful works?
23 And I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These are the words of Jesus Himself. He declares there will be people that claim him as Lord, yet he will profess to them, "I never knew you, you who work iniquity" (or make it a practice of committing sin). We can debate if these people were ever actually saved or if they are what some call ''false converts'', but this we do know. These people truly and whole heartedly believed themselves to be saved. Matter of fact I believe they were more than just church members, but leaders. As they claim to have prophesied, cast out devils, and done many wonderful works in the name of Jesus. So the question is not whether these spoken of here were backsliders or false converts, but that not all that claim Christianity are Christians. Not all that seem to us to be the most holy are really Christians. Not all that believe Jesus is Lord are truly saved. Not even everyone that honestly believes they are truly saved is on their way to Heaven. But only those that do the will of the Father which is in Heaven. Jesus also said that the way to righteousness is narrow and few will find it.
Matthew 7 13:14
13 Enter ye into the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be there be which go thereat.
14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
My question to you would be: Is there unrepentant sin in your life? Do you obey the will of God or your own flesh? When you meet Jesus on judgment day will He say, well done good and faithful servant or depart from me I never knew you, you who practice sin?
Romans 6:15-16
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 know you not ,that whom you yield yourselves servant to obey, his servant you are whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?
Short but not so sweet. You that live in sin are servants of sin and not of God. Jesus said in Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13 that you cannot serve two masters.
1st Corinthians 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in an epistle not to company with fornicators.
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must ye needs to go out of this world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man be called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not you judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among you that wicked person.
Paul had instructed the church in Corinth to separate themselves from sinners, but they were allowing sin into the church. They were judging those that were outside of the church as sinners, yet ignoring the sin that was taking place in the church. So Paul had to revise his instructions. That they should not company with those that sin in the church either. Sin is sin whether you go to church and claim Christianity or not. Notice he referred to the offender as ''that wicked person'' although they went to church and claimed to be a brother.
Philippians 3:17-19
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them that walk so as ye us have for an example.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often ,and now tell you even weeping ,that they are enemies of the cross.
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is their shame, who mind earthly things).
Paul shares his heart with us here. We see he instructs us to make examples out of those that walk upright and honestly being obedient to God. For there are many that walk (that is people in the church claiming Christianity) that are enemies of the cross. What made them enemies of the cross? Because they were overtly evil? No, because they minded earthly things. How many in the church today put earthly things above God? The state of the first century church in Macedonia broke Paul's heart just as the state of today's church in America breaks mine. The watered down Eternal Security, Hyper Grace gospel taught in our churches today, may grow attendance, but it does not make true converts. Those that teach such things as well as them that accept and practice it are enemies of the cross. Not the defenders of the true faith, God has called the church to be.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God: but in works they do deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
People who support the teachings of Eternal Security, OSAS, and or Hyper Grace say that as long as we have confessed Christ as our Savior, we will not be judged for our sin. But Paul says that there were some that profess they know God but in work, through their disobedience to God's word, they do deny Him. Jesus said in Matthew 10:33 whoever denies Me, I will deny him before My Father.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him I will also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
So whether by our confession or our actions if we deny Christ, He will deny us. Living a lifestyle of sin is denying him regardless of our confessions of faith.
That being said is it ok for us to remain in mediocraty, living below the bar, being lukewarm induldging in all types of sin, and pleasures of our flesh? No it is not. Lets see what scripture says about sin inheriting the Kingdom.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornication, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Pretty clear, there is no if, and, or buts, those that live in sin will not make it to heaven.
Colossians 3:24-25
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for you serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We that serve the Lord shall receive our inheritance, but those that commit sin shall also receive what they deserve. God will not turn a blind eye to your sin, while judging others for theirs, for there is no respect with God. He treats us all equally.
Ephesians 5:1-7
1 Be you therefore followers of God as dear children,
2 And walk in love, as Christ also loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not once be named among you, as becometh saint;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
The scripture is clear, no sinner has any inheritance in the kingdom of God nor of Christ. It also emphatically states that you should not allow yourself to be deceived by vain talkers, such as those that promote the OSAS doctrine. If you partake in the sins of the world you will also partake in the wrath of God with them.
Let's see what the bible teaches about those that claim Christ name yet continue in sin.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that say unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name did many wonderful works?
23 And I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These are the words of Jesus Himself. He declares there will be people that claim him as Lord, yet he will profess to them, "I never knew you, you who work iniquity" (or make it a practice of committing sin). We can debate if these people were ever actually saved or if they are what some call ''false converts'', but this we do know. These people truly and whole heartedly believed themselves to be saved. Matter of fact I believe they were more than just church members, but leaders. As they claim to have prophesied, cast out devils, and done many wonderful works in the name of Jesus. So the question is not whether these spoken of here were backsliders or false converts, but that not all that claim Christianity are Christians. Not all that seem to us to be the most holy are really Christians. Not all that believe Jesus is Lord are truly saved. Not even everyone that honestly believes they are truly saved is on their way to Heaven. But only those that do the will of the Father which is in Heaven. Jesus also said that the way to righteousness is narrow and few will find it.
Matthew 7 13:14
13 Enter ye into the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be there be which go thereat.
14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
My question to you would be: Is there unrepentant sin in your life? Do you obey the will of God or your own flesh? When you meet Jesus on judgment day will He say, well done good and faithful servant or depart from me I never knew you, you who practice sin?
Romans 6:15-16
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 know you not ,that whom you yield yourselves servant to obey, his servant you are whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?
Short but not so sweet. You that live in sin are servants of sin and not of God. Jesus said in Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13 that you cannot serve two masters.
1st Corinthians 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in an epistle not to company with fornicators.
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must ye needs to go out of this world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man be called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not you judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among you that wicked person.
Paul had instructed the church in Corinth to separate themselves from sinners, but they were allowing sin into the church. They were judging those that were outside of the church as sinners, yet ignoring the sin that was taking place in the church. So Paul had to revise his instructions. That they should not company with those that sin in the church either. Sin is sin whether you go to church and claim Christianity or not. Notice he referred to the offender as ''that wicked person'' although they went to church and claimed to be a brother.
Philippians 3:17-19
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them that walk so as ye us have for an example.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often ,and now tell you even weeping ,that they are enemies of the cross.
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is their shame, who mind earthly things).
Paul shares his heart with us here. We see he instructs us to make examples out of those that walk upright and honestly being obedient to God. For there are many that walk (that is people in the church claiming Christianity) that are enemies of the cross. What made them enemies of the cross? Because they were overtly evil? No, because they minded earthly things. How many in the church today put earthly things above God? The state of the first century church in Macedonia broke Paul's heart just as the state of today's church in America breaks mine. The watered down Eternal Security, Hyper Grace gospel taught in our churches today, may grow attendance, but it does not make true converts. Those that teach such things as well as them that accept and practice it are enemies of the cross. Not the defenders of the true faith, God has called the church to be.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God: but in works they do deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
People who support the teachings of Eternal Security, OSAS, and or Hyper Grace say that as long as we have confessed Christ as our Savior, we will not be judged for our sin. But Paul says that there were some that profess they know God but in work, through their disobedience to God's word, they do deny Him. Jesus said in Matthew 10:33 whoever denies Me, I will deny him before My Father.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him I will also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
So whether by our confession or our actions if we deny Christ, He will deny us. Living a lifestyle of sin is denying him regardless of our confessions of faith.
*Ahem*
Romans 7:20
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Romans 7: 14-15
The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
Romans 7:20
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Romans 7: 14-15
The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
This is really sad Paul here was setting up the necessity for crucifying the flesh and walking in the Spirit that he present in Romans 8, not excusing his or anyone elses sin
Dual nature is a false teaching we have a sinful nature until we are reborn and then we have a spiritual nature that want to obey God. we are actually infused with the very nature of Christ. If you are still hanging on to your sinful nature you have not been reborn, and thereby will not see the Kingdom.
Dual nature is a false teaching we have a sinful nature until we are reborn and then we have a spiritual nature that want to obey God. we are actually infused with the very nature of Christ. If you are still hanging on to your sinful nature you have not been reborn, and thereby will not see the Kingdom.
Yes and it is the pastors duty to lead people into the truth, not fallacy as your pastor has obviously led you. 
U
We won’t have this old body of sin in Heaven, for the Lord will give us a new body. No sinful thing can enter Heaven, so God doesn’t take the old sinful body to Heaven. Beloved, the very fact that Christians die physically proves that they are not sinless in the body. Do you realize that the only thing that causes either physical or eternal death is sin? Thus, if we were sinlessly perfect in the flesh, we would never die, for there would be no sin to cause us to die. In view of the fact that we all die, it is quite evident that no one is perfect in the old flesh.
Pilgrim Publications
Pilgrim Publications
E
You are a remarkable young lady lil_christian that is mature beyond her years. It is evident that you stand on solid ground in your faith. It is wonderful to observe. God bless you always and forevermore
It's talking about those who willfully sin and don't repent. Sorry.
Ummm...I don't get it. I don't see where it says "BE SINLESS OR GO TO HELL!"
I don't see where "Serving the Lord Jesus Christ = automatically sinless" is
Right there it's saying do not follow the world, but to follow God. But, once again, I don't see where it says that following God automatically makes you sinless
Ok, I do not get how this even applies to being sinless! That there just says "Works don't save ya!"
Yes, and sometimes we veer off the narrow road. Because Satan has built other "roads" (with dead ends) that we walk onto sometimes. But what's important is that we don't keep walking on it. We go back onto it, repent, and keep going the way we were heading.
Ok, so don't have sex outside of marriage. And keep away from people that can influence you the wrong way. Sooooo...? Your point?
I don't see where this applies to being sinless...?
Say there's a guy who claims they know God. But hey, there's a party at 10 p.m. tonight. So how bout going and getting drunk? Maybe smoke a joint or two...oh and don't forget about the ladies!! Oooh yeah...perfect night!!
Next day, same thing. "Yeah, I know God." but then cusses his head off, cursing at people...
So he knows God, but doesn't make a single effort to change his lifestyle. And THAT'S what he means right there.
That's not about sinning. That's about denying God in EVERYTHING you do and say. Same at Titus 1:16.
Ummm...I don't get it. I don't see where it says "BE SINLESS OR GO TO HELL!"
I don't see where "Serving the Lord Jesus Christ = automatically sinless" is
Right there it's saying do not follow the world, but to follow God. But, once again, I don't see where it says that following God automatically makes you sinless
Ok, I do not get how this even applies to being sinless! That there just says "Works don't save ya!"
Yes, and sometimes we veer off the narrow road. Because Satan has built other "roads" (with dead ends) that we walk onto sometimes. But what's important is that we don't keep walking on it. We go back onto it, repent, and keep going the way we were heading.
Ok, so don't have sex outside of marriage. And keep away from people that can influence you the wrong way. Sooooo...? Your point?
I don't see where this applies to being sinless...?
Say there's a guy who claims they know God. But hey, there's a party at 10 p.m. tonight. So how bout going and getting drunk? Maybe smoke a joint or two...oh and don't forget about the ladies!! Oooh yeah...perfect night!!
Next day, same thing. "Yeah, I know God." but then cusses his head off, cursing at people...
So he knows God, but doesn't make a single effort to change his lifestyle. And THAT'S what he means right there.
That's not about sinning. That's about denying God in EVERYTHING you do and say. Same at Titus 1:16.
C
The sad thing here is that there is such a push against sinless perfection, that many people ignore the fact that the bible does teach that we should consecrate ourselves. I have met many who believe imputed righteousness gives them an excuse to live very sinful lifestyles and treat people very poorly. Nowhere in the bibles does Scripture support such an idea. It actually teaches the opposite.
Our ultimate goal should be to live like Jesus lived. By saying this I actually mean love like Jesus loved. That includes loving your enemy. Too many on these boards like to ridicule those who strongly disagree with them and, as a result, push these people further into error.
Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if you believe this way or that way, if it is your hearts desire to follow Jesus then you are a brother or sister in Christ. The error most of us make that we don't even see is not so much doctrinal, but it's emotional. You could have perfect doctrine and still not know the love of God in your heart. Unfortunately, I see traces of that here on these boards.
Our ultimate goal should be to live like Jesus lived. By saying this I actually mean love like Jesus loved. That includes loving your enemy. Too many on these boards like to ridicule those who strongly disagree with them and, as a result, push these people further into error.
Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if you believe this way or that way, if it is your hearts desire to follow Jesus then you are a brother or sister in Christ. The error most of us make that we don't even see is not so much doctrinal, but it's emotional. You could have perfect doctrine and still not know the love of God in your heart. Unfortunately, I see traces of that here on these boards.