Slain in the spirit?

[lrs68]

From Church Fathers (who knew the Apostles and their disciples) to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day

 

[Wansvic]

Well, these counterfeit gifts are doing its intended job for today...

To keep you from grasping the Word of God, yet while memorizing passages that you feel free to attach your own meaning to, to defend your stand.

Your accusations are unfounded. You know nothing of me or my relationship with the Lord.

Those who have the Holy Spirit know that they know when the manifestation is of God. Your refusal to accept that God flows through His children now just as He did in apostolic times is unfortunate. As it has the ability to limit the ways in which God could use you to further His kingdom.

Also, keep in mind that everyone will be accountable on judgement day for every idle (careless) word we speak. (Matt. 12:36)

 

[Wansvic]

There are no biblical tongues today. Tongues today are very real.......... Emotional or demonic.

You are so very wrong. I am reminded of Jesus' warning about attributing the manifestation of the Holy Spirit to the devil. Being guilty of blaspheming doesn"t end well for people.

 

[Wansvic]

You are failing to rightly handle the Word of God.
It's what is called the emotional revolt of the soul.

Paul warned with tears about Christians who ended up locking themselves into the emotional revolt of the soul.

​

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again, even with tears, ​

many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, ​

their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. ​

​

Who keep on thinking earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19​

At the time of writing, people used the word 'belly' to describe what we today would call 'emotions.'

Body parts were often used back then to describe different human feelings or states of being...

For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.​

​

Philippians 1:8​

​

I wonder...

Is that a good one to use for the King James Version Only crowd?


We all need to learn more than we yet realize.



......... grace and peace!

The scriptures in your post concern the error of thinking on earthly things. As well as aspects that reveal Paul's love for his fellow laborers in Christ. They have nothing to do with the spiritual topic at hand.

Paul had much to say about tongues that is still applicable. And Jude pointed out there would be mockers in the last day, and encouraged those with the Spirit to build up/edify themselves by praying in the Holy Ghost.

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself.
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." (1 Cor. 14)


Jude's words of encouragement: "But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:17-21)

 

[Wansvic]

Rightly Divide is not a Biblical term but a Reformed term trying to convince the masses to believe the baloney they spew.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is a biblical term. See 2 Tim 2:15 below:

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is the ability to distinguish what topic a scripture is actually referring to; things such as salvation, water baptism, etc. This is only possible through the study of God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

When searching for truth it becomes necessary to group scriptures into there proper category. Once that is done a thorough study of those scriptures reveal the truth. When scriptures are misappropriated it becomes impossible to see what God is actually attempting to reveal. The result is people are led away from God's truth rather than to it.

An example of this would be thinking scriptures they apply to water baptism are about the Holy Spirit, etc.

 

[Wansvic]

personally I don't like the idea of dividing the word that is how all this confusion happens i mean if you have the truth do you divide that truth and why divide what is supposed to be the whole truth unless your trying to make something out of it that it isn't
all these denominations all these different doctrines all these different interpretations no wonder we are so divided as the body because we divide the word and ourswlves putting ourselves into catagories and preaching this truth vs that truth

Rightly dividing the word of truth is a biblical term and is essential to understand the truth concerning topics in scripture.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is the ability to distinguish what topic a scripture is actually referring to; things such as salvation, water baptism, etc. This is only possible through the study of God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

When searching for truth it becomes necessary to group scriptures into there proper category. Once that is done a thorough study of those scriptures reveal the truth. When scriptures are misappropriated it becomes impossible to see what God is actually attempting to reveal. The result is people are led away from God's truth rather than to it.

An example of this would be thinking scriptures they apply to water baptism are about the Holy Spirit, etc.

 

[Wansvic]

Rightly Divided came popular when Asuza Street happened to claim that their dead and boring dried up religion, because it's only a religion, had an excuse.

Think about this for a moment.
The Rightly Divided group is one of the biggest movements pushing what most call the License to Sin doctrine.

Why would you listen to people who create doctrine to remove and add from the Bible like the Gifts have ended?

This is not an accurate example of rightly dividing the word.

 

[Wansvic]

OK then... What is your stand on this much?
Keep it in this only, please. Don't divert.


When Paul wrote 1st Corinthians, there were very little NT Scripture existing.
The NT was not yet perfect (completed)

Keep that in mind when Paul stated...

1 Corinthians 13:9-10

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, ​

but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. ​

​

If your understanding were true?

Why not just simply say? ......... "These gifts will all end when Jesus appears."

Because Paul was not referring to the return of Christ!
And, the Greek does not state that each gift will end in a same way.

Keep in mind.

98% of the NT was not yet known when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians!
The NT was terribly incomplete!​

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​

than ten thousand words in a tongue.​

​

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil, be infants, ​

but in your thinking, be adults. In the Law, it is written:​

​

​

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people, (this people = Jews)​

but even then they will not listen to me. (Jews refusing to believe.)​

says the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14:19-21​

1 Corinthains was written circa 50-55 AD.
Israel was destroyed by Rome in 70AD.

Why destroyed?
They refused the sign of tongues from God to warn them, just like Pharaoh galloped into the parted waters!

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers." 1 Cor 14:22a​

So how is that your version of tongues?
Like what was manifested when God gave it as a sign to unbelieving Jews?

You are wishy-washy if you refuse what it says, and give excuses to keep your distractor
away from facing what needs to be faced, and accepted by grace.

Your version of tongues is being used as a security blanket.

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil, be infants, ​

but in your thinking, be adults.​

If you can accept that the tongues the Bible spoke of is not what you are now experiencing in their purpose,
instead of allowing sound teaching to enter, and transform you. Enabling you to walk in the Holy Spirit's
grace power-sustaining, true inner security. Being a supernatural, unmoved state of mind that one does not
have to switch gears to enter into.

Maybe out of many, only a few who have been caught up in today's counterfeit tongues, will stand with a few with God,
and glorify Him as to show Satan that it is not such a deception that no one could have escaped from.

It would take real courage to do so.

graced and peace ............

It's absolutely amazing that those who do not speak in tongues think they have insight on the subject. And sadly are being used to try and diminish the faith of others.

You are ignoring the fact that when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell inside one's body they will speak in an unknown tongue. Scripture reveals this truth and confirms it numerous times. (Acts 2:4, 33, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7) As stated previously, tongues is direct communication between the Holy Spirit of God and the renewed spirit of the believer. After the initial experience, personal prayer in tongues is God's way of imparting things directly into the man's spirit. Paul revealed this when he said, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." Paul also clarified that he was thankful that he spoke in tongues MORE than others. Why? We can make an educated guess from the pages of scripture. Paul had great faith, revelation knowledge, wisdom, and strength that had to have come directly from God. Surely his willingness to allow God access to his very spirit is what strengthened him to fulfill his purpose.

On the other hand, not all will operate in the spiritual gift of tongues used by God to speak a message to those in a church setting.

 

[Burn1986]

Have any of y’all ever been slain in the spirit?

Maybe I should say, Have any of yall ever been baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, or prophesied? I can guarantee you, that those that are truly walking in the spirit are not on this forum.

 

[Wansvic]

Rightly handling the truth and rightly dividing aren't even close to the same meaning. One tears the Word of God apart (dividing) and the other is very careful about how they use it (handling).

Rightly dividing is to handle the word correctly. Handling the word correctly is to separate the topics into there appropriate categories.

 

[Wansvic]

Scriptures tell us that tongues were given to serve God's purpose, and that purpose ended when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.

You can do what you want. While a few will understand and glorify God.

Not so.

 

[Genez]

From Church Fathers (who knew the Apostles and their disciples) to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day

When you have the Completed Word of God?
You are now able to see Christ!
John 1:1 +John 1:14

That is...if we learn know how to keep walking in the Spirit, as to gain all Truth.
All Truth that God wants you to possess and to live by for your given lifetime on earth.

Jesus said...

I am the Way the Truth and the Life. John 14:6a​

Jesus was saying to the people listening to Him?

I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. ​

The people had to be wondering what he meant... What does he mean?

Jesus was pointing to Himself!
He was telling them...
You're looking at it! ..........
For, He was the embodiment of the Way and the Truth and the Life!

He was the Word made flesh!

Therefore...

The more sound doctrine God gives you to possess as your gold, silver, and precious stones (treasures) to walk in?
The More you will be seeing Him face to face in your thinking!
We have been given the Mind/Thinking of Christ! = The Word of God!

When the Bible was completed?
What believing teachers were holding in their hands was looking at Him face to face...

If we find a good teacher of integrity and knowledge? We will see Him operating in us!
Not, simply... Operating for us.
We will be seeing Him as He is for a given situation he placed us into, that sound doctrine causes us to overcome it,
while the ones of the world, wonder what is going on and what to do.

It's simple because He will make it simple... That only comes with understanding.


So be it.

 

[Genez]

Your accusations are unfounded. You know nothing of me or my relationship with the Lord.

Muslims felt the same way as they flew their plane into the Twin Towers.
They were wiling to die for their god.

 

[Blain]

Rightly dividing the word of truth is a biblical term and is essential to understand the truth concerning topics in scripture.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is the ability to distinguish what topic a scripture is actually referring to; things such as salvation, water baptism, etc. This is only possible through the study of God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

When searching for truth it becomes necessary to group scriptures into there proper category. Once that is done a thorough study of those scriptures reveal the truth. When scriptures are misappropriated it becomes impossible to see what God is actually attempting to reveal. The result is people are led away from God's truth rather than to it.

An example of this would be thinking scriptures they apply to water baptism are about the Holy Spirit, etc.

Well the dividing of the word I am talking about it is all the chaotic different denominations and doctrines based on a certain way of interporeting the word. for me if there is one truth and nothing but the truth then all this division within the body should not exist if there is one spirit of truth then all this interpretations supposively from the same spirit should not exist all the discord you see in this forum alone should not exist

 

[Kroogz]

You are so very wrong. I am reminded of Jesus' warning about attributing the manifestation of the Holy Spirit to the devil. Being guilty of blaspheming doesn"t end well for people.

This response alone would be a pretty good indication that biblical signs and wonders have ended.

 

[lrs68]

When you have the Completed Word of God?
You are now able to see Christ!
John 1:1 +John 1:14

That is...if we learn know how to keep walking in the Spirit, as to gain all Truth.
All Truth that God wants you to possess and to live by for your given lifetime on earth.

Jesus said...

I am the Way the Truth and the Life. John 14:6a​

Jesus was saying to the people listening to Him?

I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. ​

The people had to be wondering what he meant... What does he mean?

Jesus was pointing to Himself!
He was telling them...
You're looking at it! ..........
For, He was the embodiment of the Way and the Truth and the Life!

He was the Word made flesh!

Therefore...

The more sound doctrine God gives you to possess as your gold, silver, and precious stones (treasures) to walk in?
The More you will be seeing Him face to face in your thinking!
We have been given the Mind/Thinking of Christ! = The Word of God!

When the Bible was completed?
What believing teachers were holding in their hands was looking at Him face to face...

If we find a good teacher of integrity and knowledge? We will see Him operating in us!
Not, simply... Operating for us.
We will be seeing Him as He is for a given situation he placed us into, that sound doctrine causes us to overcome it,
while the ones of the world, wonder what is going on and what to do.

It's simple because He will make it simple... That only comes with understanding.


So be it.

You only need to know what Paul meant in chapter 13 and the Church Father's did and told us the meaning.

 

[lrs68]

Rightly dividing is to handle the word correctly. Handling the word correctly is to separate the topics into there appropriate categories.

It's actually translation of the truth.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Rightly Divided?:

It's actually translation of the truth.

Or could be Rightly Dividing God's Two Different Programs that so many have mixed/jumbled
into mass Confusion, eh?



Basic Distinctions (14 +) Of Prophecy vs Mystery!
+
[ Update/Additions #’s: (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) ]

Amen.

 

[lrs68]

Rightly Divided?:

Or could be Rightly Dividing God's Two Different Programs that so many have mixed/jumbled
into mass Confusion, eh?

View attachment 272750

Basic Distinctions (14 +) Of Prophecy vs Mystery!
+
[ Update/Additions #’s: (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) ]

Amen.

That's actually not bad

But the former and the latter are still but foreshadow of the Promise of the Messiah and the Arrived Messiah.

The Bible constantly confirms itself over and over again.

 

[Genez]

You are so very wrong. I am reminded of Jesus' warning about attributing the manifestation of the Holy Spirit to the devil. Being guilty of blaspheming doesn"t end well for people.

The following very confident men were sure they were not wrong...
They did everything in Jesus name!

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name ​

and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Matthew 7:22​

Go look at the context.
They will sent to Hell!