Imputed Righteousness???

[NewLifeInChrist]

The bolded part is not a part of the original text. Research Romans 8:1 + interpolation

True. The oldest and most reliable manuscripts do not contain it. But the phrase must be addressed because it appears in verse 4. If the phrase limits the blessings in verses 3 and 4 to those who are fulfilling their obligations, then it does no damage to add the phrase to every other blessing in the chapter.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

There is no condemnation in Christ, period. The righteous work of the law is accomplished in those who walk after the spirit and not the flesh. Conversely, the righteous work of the law is NOT accomplished in those who walk after the flesh and not the spirit

I can see that POV in the verse. But I can also see an alternate meaning...

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Ro 8:3–4)​

What could the law not do, and why? Obeying it could never release anyone from the penalty of eternal death because the flesh is not strong enough to resist sin. That's why God sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins. The fact that we have now received eternal life in Christ Jesus means that we have overcome the law's requirement of etrenal death for those who do not obey it 100% of the time throughout their entire lives (vs. 2).

To then say the flesh is able to fulfil the requirements of the law one deed at a time after receiving new life in Christ is to deny that the requirement of the law was and is for complete obedience without any failures. This requirement, however is fulfilled in the new man which was created "according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:24). We are right with God in every respect in the new creation, and it is here that we find complete fulfillment of the law's requirements for righteousness.

In the new man, we love God with all our hearts, we love our neighbors as ourselves, we love the things of God and hate sin, etc. And we do well if we live out what God has put in us as we walk in the light He provides. That is the only way to avoid the lusts of the flesh and the fruit that walking in the flesh produces.

 

[GWH]

• Romans 3:22
  "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe".
  
  
• 2 Corinthians 5:21
  "For our sake [God] made [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God".
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 1:30
  "Christ “has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption”.

Here are some other things to note about the righteousness of Christ:

• Imputation: The process of giving Christ's righteousness to sinners.
• Positional righteousness: Believers are considered righteous in the eyes of God, even though they may still sin.
• Sanctification: The process through which believers learn to do what is right.

• Why does Christ's righteousness need to be imputed to us?
  Oct 21, 2024 — Paul puts it this way: “For our sake [God] made [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the ...
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• Romans 3:22 And this righteousness from God comes through faith ...
  Romans 3:22 And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
  
  
  
  
  
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"Romans 3:22 And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.": Yes, to all who believe: believed when repented/converted, are believing while being sanctified and growing toward spiritual maturity, and will keep on believing until death/the end (MT 10:22, COL 1:9-12 & 21-23).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In the new man, we love God with all our hearts, we love our neighbors as ourselves, we love the things of God and hate sin, etc. And we do well if we live out what God has put in us as we walk in the light He provides. That is the only way to avoid the lusts of the flesh and the fruit that walking in the flesh produces.

The sign of loving God with all of your heart is doing his commandments

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not a burden. 1 John 5:3​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The bolded part is not a part of the original text. Research Romans 8:1 + interpolation

Yeah even if you remove this

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it repeatedly says the same condition again and again that it’s required for the believer to not walk after the flesh , but after the spirit.

So , if it’s fake or not meant to be there , it’s absolutely an accurate fake and fits perfectly with what Paul taught.

Look even how those paragraphs conclude

he starts like this

“no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

and leads to his conclusion here

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:


but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how it’s probably actually accurate ? I’m not sure why you are saying it doesn’t belong there , but read just that section the point your saying doesn’t belong , fits and begins what he’s saying and leads to the conclusion he’s making

and again it’s in other epistles as well the same point he’s making and that he taught in his doctrine like the section of Galatians earlier explaining what “ walking in and following the flesh is actually “ and what the fruits of following the spirit are “

that’s Paul saying “ you Christian’s can choose to follow God through the gospels promises or sin through your flesh

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,( walking in the flesh )

or of obedience unto righteousness?”( walking by the spirit )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to walk in the spirit to escape the condemnation we make mistakes but our intent and will needs to be set upon following Jesus and trusting the things he taught mankind and said will save us

repenting from evil works of our flesh is a requirement we can’t “ walk in the flesh and also follow the spirit or walk on the spirit we’re either going to follow our flesh desires or spiritual ones through the gospel

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah even if you remove this

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it repeatedly says the same condition again and again that it’s required for the believer to not walk after the flesh , but after the spirit.

So , if it’s fake or not meant to be there , it’s absolutely an accurate fake and fits perfectly with what Paul taught.

Look even how those paragraphs conclude

he starts like this

“no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

and leads to his conclusion here

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:


but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how it’s probably actually accurate ? I’m not sure why you are saying it doesn’t belong there , but read just that section the point your saying doesn’t belong , fits and begins what he’s saying and leads to the conclusion he’s making

and again it’s in other epistles as well the same point he’s making and that he taught in his doctrine like the section of Galatians earlier explaining what “ walking in and following the flesh is actually “ and what the fruits of following the spirit are “

that’s Paul saying “ you Christian’s can choose to follow God through the gospels promises or sin through your flesh

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,( walking in the flesh )

or of obedience unto righteousness?”( walking by the spirit )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to walk in the spirit to escape the condemnation we make mistakes but our intent and will needs to be set upon following Jesus and trusting the things he taught mankind and said will save us

repenting from evil works of our flesh is a requirement we can’t “ walk in the flesh and also follow the spirit or walk on the spirit we’re either going to follow our flesh desires or spiritual ones through the gospel

I think you're mising the point Paul was making. It's essential that the last part of that verse not be there because it is the continuation and conclusion of the prior verses that describe the hopeless condition man is in. The word condemnation in Romans 8:1 means adverse judgment. What can deliver man from judgment for his wretched condition of wanting to do good, but working bad instead? Do works or walking in the spirit deliver a man from the judgment of eternal death?

Condemnation
G2631 κατάκριμα katakrima (ka-ta'-kriy-ma) n.
an adverse sentence (the verdict).

No, only the grace of God through the death of Christ brings us into covenant with God in which there is no judgment against us because our sins have already been judged. Being in Christ means no judgment. It doesn't matter if you walk in the spirit of God or not, there is no adverse judgment in Christ. That grace gives us the freedom and ability to walk according to the spirit and thus fulfill the righteous work of the law.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation [adverse judgment] to them which are in Christ Jesus Romans 7:22-8:1​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What Romans 8:1 literally says is that there is no decision (judgment) against those in Christ

G2631 κατάκριμα katakrima (ka-ta'-kriy-ma) n.
an adverse sentence (the verdict).
[from G2596 and G2919]

G2596 κατά kata (ka-ta') prep.
5. against.

G2919 κρίνω krino (kriy'-nō) v.
1. (properly) to distinguish, i.e. decide

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think you're mising the point Paul was making. It's essential that the last part of that verse not be there because it is the continuation and conclusion of the prior verses that describe the hopeless condition man is in. The word condemnation in Romans 8:1 means adverse judgment. What can deliver man from judgment for his wretched condition of wanting to do good, but working bad instead? Do works or walking in the spirit deliver a man from the judgment of eternal death?

Condemnation
G2631 κατάκριμα katakrima (ka-ta'-kriy-ma) n.
an adverse sentence (the verdict).

No, only the grace of God through the death of Christ brings us into covenant with God in which there is no judgment against us because our sins have already been judged. Being in Christ means no judgment. It doesn't matter if you walk in the spirit of God or not, there is no adverse judgment in Christ. That grace gives us the freedom and ability to walk according to the spirit and thus fulfill the righteous work of the law.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation [adverse judgment] to them which are in Christ Jesus Romans 7:22-8:1​

“]I think you're mising the point Paul was making. It's essential that the last part of that verse not be there because it is the continuation and conclusion of the prior verses that describe the hopeless condition man is in. “

I think your missing it actually Paul is shifting from the problem in chapter seven , to the solution to the problem in chapter 8 and of course it’s a continuation it starts in chapter 6 actually and goes to 8

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1KJV‬‬

That’s not a repeat of the problem it’s the solution now in Christ you can follow the spirit and put the flesh to death and be free of the law of sin and death that held you captive ….described just beforhand

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‭KJV‬‬

If we walk in the things Jesus taught start learning and applying them it will change everything so that mistaken line there people should pay close attention to walking in the spirit is what makes the gospel effectual and sets us free

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63, 67-69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

“]I think you're mising the point Paul was making. It's essential that the last part of that verse not be there because it is the continuation and conclusion of the prior verses that describe the hopeless condition man is in. “

I think your missing it actually Paul is shifting from the problem in chapter seven , to the solution to the problem in chapter 8 and of course it’s a continuation it starts in chapter 6 actually and goes to 8

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1KJV‬‬

That’s not a repeat of the problem it’s the solution now in Christ you can follow the spirit and put the flesh to death and be free of the law of sin and death that held you captive ….described just beforhand

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‭KJV‬‬

If we walk in the things Jesus taught start learning and applying them it will change everything so that mistaken line there people should pay close attention to walking in the spirit is what makes the gospel effectual and sets us free

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63, 67-69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

OK believe what you want

 

[Pilgrimshope]

OK believe what you want

OK believe what you want

I choose the word that promises no condemnation to the hearers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

The sign of loving God with all of your heart is doing his commandments

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments are not a burden. 1 John 5:3​

True for the new man. Impossible for the flesh. Do you not distinguish between the the spirit and the flesh? Or, do you think we are training the flesh to be good? "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" (Php 3:3).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

True for the new man. Impossible for the flesh. Do you not distinguish between the the spirit and the flesh? Or, do you think we are training the flesh to be good? "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" (Php 3:3).

It's true for the whole man when the flesh is crucified by an act of our will in order to follow the spirit and do God's will.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It's true for the whole man when the flesh is crucified by an act of our will in order to follow the spirit and do God's will.

It seems like we may have some common ground here, though on the surface we appear to be at odds. Are you saying the flesh is part of the "whole man" but is ineffective at inticing us with its lusts when we walk as the Spirit leads (per Galatians 5:16-18)?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It seems like we may have some common ground here, though on the surface we appear to be at odds. Are you saying the flesh is part of the "whole man" but is ineffective at inticing us with its lusts when we walk as the Spirit leads (per Galatians 5:16-18)?

Yes, and also when we through our own conscious will put to death the works/longings of the flesh

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Yes, and also when we through our own conscious will put to death the works/longings of the flesh

I am glad to find some agreement. We both see, view, and consider the flesh, its works, and its longings to be evil. And I would say that everyone who is in Christ sees their own flesh the same way.

James describes the lifecycle of sin this way...

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (Jas 1:14–15)​

Temptation acts on the desires of the flesh and entices us. But God always gives us an escape to resist temptation...

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:13)​

So, we can say that every time we have failed to resist temptation it was because we refused to take the escape God provided. Whenever this occurs, God corrects us because we are His children and He is our loving Father...

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Heb 12:7–11)​

But His correction does not exempt us from the consequences of our actions, because when we walk in the flesh we reap the fruit of the flesh...

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. (Ga 6:7–8)​

If we want to avoid His correction and the fruit of walking in the flesh, then we must walk in the Spirit. The flesh pulls us in one direction and the Spirit pulls us in the opposite direction. As a result, walking in the Spirit is the only way to avoid walking in the flesh and reaping the consequences...

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (Ga 5:16–18)​

So, yeah, an act of the will is required to walk in the Spirit. And it is safe to say that walking in the flesh is not righteous. But trusting that all our failures are forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice for our sins (and for the sinfulness of our flesh) is counted by God as righteousness. As an aside, if the flesh is sinful and can't be reformed, and if the sinfulness of the flesh is not forgiven, how is the penalty for it's sins and sinfulness disposed of?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I am glad to find some agreement. We both see, view, and consider the flesh, its works, and its longings to be evil. And I would say that everyone who is in Christ sees their own flesh the same way.

I don't consider the longings of the flesh to be evil. It is only when we allow them to draw us away from doing the will of God are we doing evil.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

if the flesh is sinful and can't be reformed, and if the sinfulness of the flesh is not forgiven, how is the penalty for it's sins and sinfulness disposed of?

There's no division. You can"t seperate flesh from the man. The whole man is forgiven. The flesh either dies or is transformed into an incorruptible body at the lord's return

 

[ocean]

our actions have to match our words eventually we can’t keep serving sin even if we claim we’re under grace we still have to repent and do good not evil

what are you on about? we have none of our own righteousness whatsoever. who is serving sin? smh

 

[Pilgrimshope]

what are you on about? we have none of our own righteousness whatsoever. who is serving sin? smh

not interested

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, and also when we through our own conscious will put to death the works/longings of the flesh

amen

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬