Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Matthew 7:17-18, Luke 6:4a and from John 15:4-5 ~ Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. Apart from Me you can do nothing.
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Exactly, therefore, how deep, does this go?
I see it, "I" can't do it, once anyone accepts that, then one begins new as Father starts teaching them new, not others or even self
To see truth "I" am nothing, "I" can't do it. Relieves me from under Law, that no other person can do it perfect but Son tha did it once for us all to be reconciled as 100% forgiven forever in his done work. To then be given new life in his father's sight, The Holy Spirit of Truth to now work thorugh me at least in love to all love rate few I used to only love, and did not love all, especially those I thought even know had done me wrong. Not seeing g the wron\g I have done as well
I am nothing God is everything, I trust God to use me as God's vessel, the same as on Pentecost. Getting the "I". me out of the way daily,
therefore, with Father God all things are possible, to love all as are loved first
Thank you Father and Son as Won
I see it, "I" can't do it, once anyone accepts that, then one begins new as Father starts teaching them new, not others or even self
To see truth "I" am nothing, "I" can't do it. Relieves me from under Law, that no other person can do it perfect but Son tha did it once for us all to be reconciled as 100% forgiven forever in his done work. To then be given new life in his father's sight, The Holy Spirit of Truth to now work thorugh me at least in love to all love rate few I used to only love, and did not love all, especially those I thought even know had done me wrong. Not seeing g the wron\g I have done as well
I am nothing God is everything, I trust God to use me as God's vessel, the same as on Pentecost. Getting the "I". me out of the way daily,
therefore, with Father God all things are possible, to love all as are loved first
Thank you Father and Son as Won
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Lets, just go as led daily, and we will from Father Daddy, PaPa continue to get given whatever needed. walking in trust to the Father of us all, through the risen son that got us there, by belief one is saved. Not of works, yet work is there in us each, it is not our work, it is Father's done work of Son working through us, at least me
thanks for your posts, and willingness to learn new from God Father in risen Son for you too
Love it
we can and do learn from one another in this love and mercy given us to be able to do that now, and not fight and war, as Paul talked of in 1 Cor 3 about getting meat of the word, that they then were not ready for yet.
I see being Willing to me, opened the door for me to begin to grow up into maturity of the word from God for use to us all. Still lots to learn daily one thing at a time to keep out of confusion
thanks for your posts, and willingness to learn new from God Father in risen Son for you too
Love it
we can and do learn from one another in this love and mercy given us to be able to do that now, and not fight and war, as Paul talked of in 1 Cor 3 about getting meat of the word, that they then were not ready for yet.
I see being Willing to me, opened the door for me to begin to grow up into maturity of the word from God for use to us all. Still lots to learn daily one thing at a time to keep out of confusion
Revelation 3:8; Luke 13:24 ~ Behold, I have placed before you an open door, which no one can shut. Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
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From: John 8:34; 2 Peter 2:19a; Galatians 4:8; Romans 7:14; Ephesians 2:3b; Romans 6:6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
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From: John 8:34; 2 Peter 2:19a; Galatians 4:8; Romans 7:14; Ephesians 2:3b; Romans 6:6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
tell me, once anyone, whoever turns and believes God in risen Son for them. will they not ever sin again?
Or better asked, will these new kids from God learn to not sin, being freed now to sin, no more under Law?
Which one keeps people in bondage or gives freedom to stop sin
Law or Grace? Law, one can't sin or else will be lost? Grace can sin are free to sin, one then sees no use in continuing sin, once freed to sin, there is no command to not sin, therefore the flesh is not aroused to sin anymore.
A license to sin, CS Lewis spoke of Go ahead I give you a license to sin. In about a year maybe less time or more, come back and tell me if the Law takes anymore occasion over you to get you to continue in sin as Romans 7 tells us all about that to die to Law
And be new in the risen Son for us to love all without any wondering over whether or not you doing it right or not, you are in love from Father and Son given us to do it, his righteousness through us, born new and in love to all, not accusing or excusing anyone anymore
Thanks
Wilfull ignorance on the one hand, informed choices on the other.
The children of disobedience, slaves to the lusts of their father, the devil. And the children of light, servants in the household of faith, who seek to do the will of the Father.
We either acquit ourselves in servitude to the will of God, or wallow in acting out the lusts of the devil. We are all constrained by either one of the two opposed kingdoms. Free will, which would need to be all pervading, is irreconcilable in that context.
With that being said, I do hope wording will never become more important than agreement. I ain't been here 5 minutes, but I've already gleaned enough from this topic to see a prevalent consensus, which should put any debate over terminology in the shade.
The children of disobedience, slaves to the lusts of their father, the devil. And the children of light, servants in the household of faith, who seek to do the will of the Father.
We either acquit ourselves in servitude to the will of God, or wallow in acting out the lusts of the devil. We are all constrained by either one of the two opposed kingdoms. Free will, which would need to be all pervading, is irreconcilable in that context.
With that being said, I do hope wording will never become more important than agreement. I ain't been here 5 minutes, but I've already gleaned enough from this topic to see a prevalent consensus, which should put any debate over terminology in the shade.
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Semantics, yes so true in discussing that becomes arguing and not seeing love over it all given us through risen Son, for me anyways
I see, I have chosen Father and Son as won for me to be new and not of self ever again, as I have tried to do. Found out I can't, even though I read no one can, not even the first chosen could ever do it either not perfect anyways.
Now I see to trust Daddy, PaPa, Father in risen Son available for everyone to be born new in love and mercy, in Daddy's Spirit and Truth, the Holy Spirit to lead if one will remain willing, one will, see what the new is, and it is not me, it is father's done work through Son as risen that sustains me
As Daddy said to Paul "my grace is sufficient for you"
It is not really about semantics as I see it. It is about Christ the Son as risen where new life for anyone in belief gets given this a gift from Father. Provided one, anyone will not quit belief, no matter what troubles anyone might go through first
Seeing Col 1:21-23 as truth to not quit, and have gone through much trouble first, yet no way as much as Jesus did willingly to save us all in his risen Life
Thanks, time to believe, if not yet believe, then once believe, stand in that no matter what
troubles come along
I see, it is not easy, yet it is best fro anyone to continue sincerely, these eventually see through the veil
I see, I have chosen Father and Son as won for me to be new and not of self ever again, as I have tried to do. Found out I can't, even though I read no one can, not even the first chosen could ever do it either not perfect anyways.
Now I see to trust Daddy, PaPa, Father in risen Son available for everyone to be born new in love and mercy, in Daddy's Spirit and Truth, the Holy Spirit to lead if one will remain willing, one will, see what the new is, and it is not me, it is father's done work through Son as risen that sustains me
As Daddy said to Paul "my grace is sufficient for you"
It is not really about semantics as I see it. It is about Christ the Son as risen where new life for anyone in belief gets given this a gift from Father. Provided one, anyone will not quit belief, no matter what troubles anyone might go through first
Seeing Col 1:21-23 as truth to not quit, and have gone through much trouble first, yet no way as much as Jesus did willingly to save us all in his risen Life
Thanks, time to believe, if not yet believe, then once believe, stand in that no matter what
troubles come along
I see, it is not easy, yet it is best fro anyone to continue sincerely, these eventually see through the veil
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Paul is speaking using the figure of speech called prosopopaeia, assuming the voice of someone who is now dead.
Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would/want/will/desire, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16
If then I do that which I would/will/want/desire not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will/want/desire is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would/will/want/desire not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would/will/want/desire do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Before being purchased from the power of sin and being brought to life by faith in Christ, Paul was sold under sin, brought into cpativity to the law of sin which was in his members, being killed by his body and with the flesh serving sin. Nevertheless, in that state he was capable of wanting in his mind to obey the law of Moses, to agree that that law was good; to will/want/desire to do good was present in His mind; he delighted in the law of God in his inward man, and was able with his mind to serve the law of God.
Does that sound like a man whose will was not free to desire good, and was only bound to desiring evil?
Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would/want/will/desire, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16
If then I do that which I would/will/want/desire not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will/want/desire is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would/will/want/desire not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would/will/want/desire do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Before being purchased from the power of sin and being brought to life by faith in Christ, Paul was sold under sin, brought into cpativity to the law of sin which was in his members, being killed by his body and with the flesh serving sin. Nevertheless, in that state he was capable of wanting in his mind to obey the law of Moses, to agree that that law was good; to will/want/desire to do good was present in His mind; he delighted in the law of God in his inward man, and was able with his mind to serve the law of God.
Does that sound like a man whose will was not free to desire good, and was only bound to desiring evil?
And this is the main point, it's only in Him that we are free from sin, right? Before that we are a SLAVE to sin, but guess what happens once God gives us spiritual life and we are born again? We get a new nature, and that nature is just as enslaved to obedience leading to righteousness as the flesh was to sin. So "our will" is never "free" according to His word. We are "A slave of sin or slave of Him" as I like to say.
What I do not mean in any way, shape, form, or fashion is that we do not have choice, or agency. His word is also very clear that we are to choose wisely and judge with righteous judgment. We have choice, that choice matters, and I believe that is the reality we exist in. However our choice is lorded over, enslaved to, and guided by our nature. They are 2 natures a man can have, the first one we are born to through Adam, the flesh born with a dead spirit. Every human being since the fall was born this way save one. Jesus the Christ who was born of the Spirit through a virgin was not born disconnected from God, and lived His whole life never sinning against His Father once. He laid down His life willingly to take the Holy and righteous wrath of God for all sin, so that the price for that sin is paid and He can not only justly forgive our sin when He brings us to repentance, but also applies Jesus righteousness to us making us a clean temple He can now indwell and guide by His Spirit as we were created to be.
Now because of Jesus we can be born again, giving us a new nature, of the Spirit, that guides and empowers us to do things pleasing to God. So no matter which one we are we never have a "free will". It's always a slave of our nature, either the flesh or the Spirit. Make sense?
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My jaw has just hit the floor as there are so many comments here, didn't expect this much interest for sure.
Give me a while to catch up, will only reply to a few, i'm in old Blighty so different time zone to most here. Have quite a lot to sort this afternoon as well and on top of that, a really painful problem which is making typing really hard at the moment.
Give me a while to catch up, will only reply to a few, i'm in old Blighty so different time zone to most here. Have quite a lot to sort this afternoon as well and on top of that, a really painful problem which is making typing really hard at the moment.
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sincerely, this goes much deeper than Be dead to first born self, between God and you
Reckon self dead to sin. To be alive in the risen Son Jesus Christ, that Father gives free to all that believe we are reconciled first by the death he did willingly once for us all, to free us all from sin. That is done by Son once for all. we are all reconciled in the willing death of Son as if never sinned, even though we all know we have and do. The born new from Father cease from sin, being delivered from under Law, this gets done in them one sin at a time taken out, then the next one. Father is not an author of any confusion as evil is an author of confusion. it wants you to think about all the problems at one time for confusion to get in you.
Time to be dead daily to first born self under Law, that keeps people in under sin.
Daily die to self, practice that, see this truth to do that willingly become a habit, to a characteristic and then a trait in you. Father now leading in Father's Spirit and Truth, the same Holy Spirit that led Jesus, as Jesus perfectly listened. Our turn, no more guilt or pride to get in, once one stands focused on this new life given them from Daddy, PaPa, Father
Reckon self dead to sin. To be alive in the risen Son Jesus Christ, that Father gives free to all that believe we are reconciled first by the death he did willingly once for us all, to free us all from sin. That is done by Son once for all. we are all reconciled in the willing death of Son as if never sinned, even though we all know we have and do. The born new from Father cease from sin, being delivered from under Law, this gets done in them one sin at a time taken out, then the next one. Father is not an author of any confusion as evil is an author of confusion. it wants you to think about all the problems at one time for confusion to get in you.
Time to be dead daily to first born self under Law, that keeps people in under sin.
Daily die to self, practice that, see this truth to do that willingly become a habit, to a characteristic and then a trait in you. Father now leading in Father's Spirit and Truth, the same Holy Spirit that led Jesus, as Jesus perfectly listened. Our turn, no more guilt or pride to get in, once one stands focused on this new life given them from Daddy, PaPa, Father
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Beautifully stated, master James. Heh, does anyone call you James? Anyways, yes, the nature one operates under has everything to do with what we are discussing, and is often completely disregarded by those who hold to their man-made doctrine of free will. I often see such people ascribing to the natural man characteristics and abilities only the spiritual man possesses and is capable of doing, though such people will claim we say nobody is able even after being told umpteen times that those enabled by God are able. Their position has the bad tree bringing forth good fruit, and all kinds of other anti-Biblical nonsense, such as the seed of God's Word taking root in the stony ground of the natural man's heart and having his hostile-to-God-mind just decide to believe that which is foolishness to him.
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Good day dear lady... this has been an ongoing topic here for a number of months recently...
I hope you have a good day and that your physical problems do not cause you too much trouble.
Have you considered using a phone to help you record your messages and save on the typing part?
I am not sure if you have such a phone, but I find mine very helpful at times that way
I hope you have a good day and that your physical problems do not cause you too much trouble.
Have you considered using a phone to help you record your messages and save on the typing part?
I am not sure if you have such a phone, but I find mine very helpful at times that way
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