Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Paul wrote that faith comes by hearing the Gospel preached. We know that most of the entire worlds population has heard some form of the Gospel preached.
We even know by a group who keeps statistics that over 6.5 Billion people in the past couple of years have heard the Gospel preached. Which according to the Apostle Paul that's 6.5 Billion people that have the Faith to believe in God. But we also factually know due to statistics only 1.8 Billion people claim to be followers of God.
That means 4.7 Billion people heard the Gospel preached and have the Faith to believe but choose to deny and reject God. They've been given the Faith to believe. They rejected God. That can only be done by free will.
We even know by a group who keeps statistics that over 6.5 Billion people in the past couple of years have heard the Gospel preached. Which according to the Apostle Paul that's 6.5 Billion people that have the Faith to believe in God. But we also factually know due to statistics only 1.8 Billion people claim to be followers of God.
That means 4.7 Billion people heard the Gospel preached and have the Faith to believe but choose to deny and reject God. They've been given the Faith to believe. They rejected God. That can only be done by free will.
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I copied this from an earlier post of mine...
While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the
Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will,
emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being
including who we are and what we do. Everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are
like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). We sin because we are sinners by nature.
Total depravity summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man.
Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant,
some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption”
or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how
accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen
man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly
understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject
despite what those who refuse to educate themselves about it think and claim and all the verses they deny..
The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).
The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that:
1—no one is without sin,
2—no one seeks after God,
3—there is no one who is good,
4—their speech is corrupted by sin,
5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and
6—above all, they have no fear of God.
So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach
that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions
so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12). source
Romans 3:10-12
While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the
Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will,
emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being
including who we are and what we do. Everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are
like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). We sin because we are sinners by nature.
Total depravity summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man.
Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant,
some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption”
or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how
accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen
man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly
understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject
despite what those who refuse to educate themselves about it think and claim and all the verses they deny..
The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).
The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that:
1—no one is without sin,
2—no one seeks after God,
3—there is no one who is good,
4—their speech is corrupted by sin,
5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and
6—above all, they have no fear of God.
So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach
that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions
so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12). source
Romans 3:10-12
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I made this panel also on some of the characteristics of the natural man and fools, and there
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
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What is MFW? I am assuming the FW part means freewill because of the topic, but i don't know what the M part is meant to be.
At any rate there is no blaming God since God can really do whatever he wants to do with his creation. It's the potter and clay analogy which is made over and over in the Bible. The potter is not subject to the clay, but the clay is subject to the potter.
At any rate there is no blaming God since God can really do whatever he wants to do with his creation. It's the potter and clay analogy which is made over and over in the Bible. The potter is not subject to the clay, but the clay is subject to the potter.
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Perhaps man's free will? So odd that he claims upholding Biblical truths borders on blasphemy.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
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I guess that makes some sense. It doesn't really constitute blasphemy, and I think he just doesn't want people to blame God, and that's okay, but even if people do blame God, or if they actually blaspheme, or if they commit any number of sins, it's not going to change anything. In fact the existence of evil really only proves God and his will even more. That's not saying you should be evil of course, but it shows that there is a God and that his will is the only real will. All evil is futile,it doesn't delay the judgment day by even a millisecond, it doesn't change the ultimate destiny which is the will of God.
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Perhaps man's free will? So odd that he claims upholding Biblical truths borders on blasphemy.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
Anyway, your chat with SJ is useful and interesting to me. So much i can agree with me but some i do think can be interpreted differently. Not because God's word is ambiguous but we can certainly misinterpret it, His word is perfect, we aren't.
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I made this panel also on some of the characteristics of the natural man and fools, and there
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
Very early days for me as a believer so my Scriptural knowledge is very limited but think i've read most or all of the Bible now and am on repeat readings of some books. Just finished re-reading Jeremiah, understanding so much more on 2nd reading of many books, it's like a new experience. Also, there are so many scriptures where it does seem our Heavenly Father wants us to repent and turn to him. Currently think it's possible we can have thoughts he rewards with his help, he is a God of absolute love and mercy, as well as glory/righteousness/power etc.
Sorting out some stuff online at the moment, will look in occasionally. Rats! Late with my little sweetheart's lunch, she's upset with me, hugs and all that's good for now.
I made this panel also on some of the characteristics of the natural man and fools, and there
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
were so many verses I could not fit them all on the panel! Haha, so I have printed them out also...
The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:
1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)
2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)
3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)
4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)
5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)
6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)
7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)
8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)
9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)
10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)
11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)
12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)
13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)
14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)
15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)
16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)
17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)
18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)
20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)
21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)
22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)
23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)
24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
25. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)
26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)
27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)
28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)
29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)
30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)
31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)
32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)
33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)
34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)
35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)
36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)
37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)
38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)
39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)
40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)
41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)
42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)
43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)
44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)
45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)
46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them(Proverbs23:9)
47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).
48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)
49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)
50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)
51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)
52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)
53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)
54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)
55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)
56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)
58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)
59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)
60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)
61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)
62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)
63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)
64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
And of course there may even be more...
You're a truly lovely lady, so happy to be friends, hugs and love.
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The M means "moral", referring to being enabled by God either to believe the Gospel/cooperate with His POS and be saved or to disbelieve/ignore and be justly damned, because God did not force that choice or prevent souls from choosing saving faith.
Yes, God could choose to hate humanity and be more evil than the devil, but He eternally chooses to be holy/righteous/omniloving and thus worthy of our love and praise.
Yes, God could choose to hate humanity and be more evil than the devil, but He eternally chooses to be holy/righteous/omniloving and thus worthy of our love and praise.
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Still don't agree it's free will but we certainly have some choice. Sorry too GWH, meant to respond to your chess comment but got sidetracked.
The plan for a chess team i had included seeking members and us choosing a name for it here, then joining probably just a couple of leagues on chess websites. We'd then be able to enter chess tournaments.
However, as you said, the best intentioned plans and all that.... Quite a responsibility too which i don't think i'm physically or mentally up to currently. Have some stuff to sort, all that's good for now.
The plan for a chess team i had included seeking members and us choosing a name for it here, then joining probably just a couple of leagues on chess websites. We'd then be able to enter chess tournaments.
However, as you said, the best intentioned plans and all that.... Quite a responsibility too which i don't think i'm physically or mentally up to currently. Have some stuff to sort, all that's good for now.
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8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Notice verse 9, not a result of works.
Personal Choice is works.
Free Will to accept God is the Gift of God so He gets the Glory.
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Notice verse 9, not a result of works.
Personal Choice is works.
Free Will to accept God is the Gift of God so He gets the Glory.
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Communicating using language certainly is tricky, isn't it? So difficult to state a whole truth and nothing but the truth in one succinct post! And this is true of Scripture, which treats topics piecemeal: some here, some there.
I try to bypass AMAP by saying that the crucial choice regarding what to believe about free will is between universalism and blasphemy (attributing unrighteous hate to God).
I err on the side of believing GW teaches that God is omniloving (1TM2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc.), but souls may reject rather than reflect His love/grace.
I try to bypass AMAP by saying that the crucial choice regarding what to believe about free will is between universalism and blasphemy (attributing unrighteous hate to God).
I err on the side of believing GW teaches that God is omniloving (1TM2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc.), but souls may reject rather than reflect His love/grace.
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Sorry but but what you've said there isn't rational. It honestly looks like appearing correct matters most to you, nor do i think it's advisable to involve God in your personal opinions.
How you can say personal choice is works in ordinary life is just silly, if i'd inferred personal choice carries weight with the Lord, you'd have had a point. It's actually a wrong to state I said something which hadn't even crossed my mind.
How you can say personal choice is works in ordinary life is just silly, if i'd inferred personal choice carries weight with the Lord, you'd have had a point. It's actually a wrong to state I said something which hadn't even crossed my mind.
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Considering all that you are doing is repeating man made doctrine and me using the Bible probably will not seem rational to you. You are literally quoting word for word from the Reformed Doctrine that doesn't even say the same thing as Ephesians is claiming.
I mean, who quotes man made doctrine like the Reformed and expects other people who use the Bible to buy what you are saying?
I worship the CREATOR of everything and you are presenting me with words from someone who was CREATED.
I mean, who quotes man made doctrine like the Reformed and expects other people who use the Bible to buy what you are saying?
I worship the CREATOR of everything and you are presenting me with words from someone who was CREATED.
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