Hello everyone. We all as followers of Christ have seen so much about how we are living in the end times. I seriously doubt anyone has been unaware of these times we are in. "Unless you've been 100% isolated or living under a rock.". All of my life I have heard at least 4 decades' worth of biblical teachings on the rapture of the church. Then, when I moved to a certain state I began to hear something I never imagined I would ever hear. Someone actually not believe in a rapture of the church. Oh I always heard the arguments concerning when the rapture could occur such as an argument about the Pre-Trib ideology meaning the rapture occurs before the tribulation. Then the Mid-trib argument where folks claim we'll have to make it halfway through the tribulation period and then the post-tribulation arguments where we will have to live through the full tribulation and face the worst persecutions in all of history! Never in my life have I ever heard anyone just not believe in the rapture at all. So, I would like to know what you think and believe. Let me ask you, Is there such a thing as the rapture of the church? If so then when do you believe it could happen? Along with your belief about it, what scriptures can you share concerning these things? If you do not believe in the rapture of the church, then why and according to your belief how will these last days unfold? What signs do we look for to indicate His soon return for the church? When I started running into people who actually preached against such a thing as a rapture I began to realize this is a bigger subject than I ever imagined it is. One man even spoke about how there is this sort of bad "Rapture mentality" where Christians with this mentality become totally useless to society because hey, why get involved with anyone or any group when hey, pretty soon I'm out of here? Why even save up a 401K retirement account when I won't be around to even spend it. Then the right people don't run for office in government or the right people utilize their gifts and talents to permeate culture and society for the better. That to me seems very true an yes I do agree we all have suffered because others have not stepped up to do their part, BUT does that mean there is no such thing as a Rapture of the church? Oh I have heard it even preached. So what do you all think?
The Rapture of the church, REAL or NOT REAL?
- Thread starter Johnny55
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
the rapture is real i think everyone agrees. the disagreement comes on the timing of the rapture. throughout church history up until the 1800s it was never debated as everyone knew the catching up of believers who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord happens at the coming of the Lord as the verse reads. no one ever imagined there would be two separate comings, until people started imagining and at which point you can start reading it into the scriptures and you start seeing it everywhere cause you are looking for it.
when you are reading through the bible you have to think to yourself hmm is this the second coming or rapture coming? and many times the rapturists dont even agree among themselves on which is which.
i wouldnt touch that system. i will believe it once someone shows me the two phases of the second coming or 3 comings in the bible. ive never seen it, no one has.
when you are reading through the bible you have to think to yourself hmm is this the second coming or rapture coming? and many times the rapturists dont even agree among themselves on which is which.
i wouldnt touch that system. i will believe it once someone shows me the two phases of the second coming or 3 comings in the bible. ive never seen it, no one has.
-
3
- Show all
I just see to believe God in risen Son, and be at rest, no matter what way it happens to become, Rapture, no /rapture, pre, mid, post
What matters is I want Life, not physically, Spiritually. God Father gives this to those that believe Son is risen for them to be new, at least for me, I see this truth now. Everything else is a distraction to cause and be in doubt, the what if's
Well, what if Jesus did not go to that cross willingly? What if Jesus said to Father in that prayer asking is there any other way? Could Jesus have refused and said go away and killed all those against him?
We all know he could have done that, at least I do now. They even continued to try to tempt him , hey come off that cross and we will believe you
I asked, Why did Jesus do that, go willingly "nevertheless, Father not my will, your will be done not mine?
LOVE that to this day I see new, and could not fathom the love of 1 Cor 13:4-7 until Father, imputed this in me to be new
This can be done in each of us, all of us, if we choose to be made alive by God Father in risen Son. then there will be no more worry over Rapture or anything else would there?
For me, I see this now, when Jesus asked this in Matthew 6
'
Will worry add a single moment to your life? Actually, worry steals, kills and destroys people
No new life in those in worry over that and this
Such as when the pharisees said to Jesus why don't your disciples wash their hands before eating?
Reply was, it is not what goes in people, it is what comes out from peoples heart that defiled people
Thank you love you the same as God loves me, so I see love all, whether believe or not, no force or manipulating as I did under Law in flesh nature I was
What matters is I want Life, not physically, Spiritually. God Father gives this to those that believe Son is risen for them to be new, at least for me, I see this truth now. Everything else is a distraction to cause and be in doubt, the what if's
Well, what if Jesus did not go to that cross willingly? What if Jesus said to Father in that prayer asking is there any other way? Could Jesus have refused and said go away and killed all those against him?
We all know he could have done that, at least I do now. They even continued to try to tempt him , hey come off that cross and we will believe you
I asked, Why did Jesus do that, go willingly "nevertheless, Father not my will, your will be done not mine?
LOVE that to this day I see new, and could not fathom the love of 1 Cor 13:4-7 until Father, imputed this in me to be new
This can be done in each of us, all of us, if we choose to be made alive by God Father in risen Son. then there will be no more worry over Rapture or anything else would there?
For me, I see this now, when Jesus asked this in Matthew 6
'
Will worry add a single moment to your life? Actually, worry steals, kills and destroys people
No new life in those in worry over that and this
Such as when the pharisees said to Jesus why don't your disciples wash their hands before eating?
Reply was, it is not what goes in people, it is what comes out from peoples heart that defiled people
Thank you love you the same as God loves me, so I see love all, whether believe or not, no force or manipulating as I did under Law in flesh nature I was
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I don't believe in the rapture doctrine. It wasn't a prominent teaching throughout church history, and not until the last couple hundred years. I think it's more of a feel-good message, one that tickles the ears and doesn't prepare God's people to endure.
Matthew 24:37-40 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. "
In the days of Noah, it was the wicked who were taken, and righteous Noah and his family remained.
But hey, if I'm wrong and a rapture happens and I get to miss all or some of the tribulation, that's a bonus. But I'm not banking on it.
Matthew 24:37-40 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. "
In the days of Noah, it was the wicked who were taken, and righteous Noah and his family remained.
But hey, if I'm wrong and a rapture happens and I get to miss all or some of the tribulation, that's a bonus. But I'm not banking on it.
-
3
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Precious friend, I believe it is In The Bible And 'Real' or else I'm [ out my window, to "the
sides of the north" ] "Looking, [ Patiently ] waiting and watching" * as Commanded By God,
For Something "that is not 'Real'" wasting my time, eh?:
God's Great GRACE Departure! Comforting Words Of Truth!
Amen.
*
Blessed Hope, "looking, watching, and patiently waiting For The LORD Jesus Christ!"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11 AV)
And, thanks for kindly asking...
Amen.
sides of the north" ] "Looking, [ Patiently ] waiting and watching" * as Commanded By God,
For Something "that is not 'Real'" wasting my time, eh?:
God's Great GRACE Departure! Comforting Words Of Truth!
Amen.
*
Blessed Hope, "looking, watching, and patiently waiting For The LORD Jesus Christ!"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;
Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
1 Thessalonians 5:5-11 AV)
"Looking for that Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing Of
The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ!" (Titus 2:13 AV)
And, thanks for kindly asking...
Amen.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You made valid and great points here. In contrast to what you said, I was raised up all my life hearing about the rapture. I've even been apart of churches where they had a saying each week, "If the Lord terries we will see you next week." Oh We heard that every single week. Now that I am over 50, I look back on those times as a boy growing up and I can remember how we sort of just took that as "normal". We expected people to say that to us each and every week. "Bless you Brother, sister so and so. If the Lord terries, we'll see you next week." Later when I got into my teens in the late 80's, being GenX, I would roll my eyes thinking, "Ya right! I'll just see you next week.". The point was that back then, we knew of NO ONE who ever questioned the idea of a rapture. There was only that lingering deeper question of exactly when the rapture of the church would happen. An example of this was a book by the late Lester Summeral entitled; "88 Reasons the rapture will occur in 1988." Then of course that simply did not happen back in 1988. I can remember being in High School back in 1988 and there was this date, this specific time all us students just KNEW the world was coming to an end. Oh I can remember the heaviness in the room! The second hands ticking. The young ladies in the room gasped with fright over this mysterious date. Our Chorus teacher knew we would not get anything else done until that time had passed and so he stopped, and litterally there we all were, all 68 kids standing on Choir risers and our teacher walks in and sits down and announced, "OK since we can accomplish nothing right now, we will spend the next moments in silence.". Oh I remember it like it was yesterday. The girls were SO frightened! The whole world coming to an end in a flash! Or at least our young and impressionable minds thought, all because of this book by Lester Summeral! After that the idea of a rapture was still agreeable but I didn't pay attention to exactly when anyone said it would happen. They were all wrong! Still remembering what transpired in the Chorus practice room so long ago. I've never doubted the idea of a rapture before. I've always ALWATS heard those I well trusted preach it's existence from the pulpit as NO one questioned the idea of there being such a thing as a rapture UNTIL, The year 2018 and the leader over our church organization, one of the FOUNDERS over the entire thing stated to me that he did not believe in a true catching up of the saints in what is called the rapture. My jaw dropped. "What? wait! Really, YOU sir?" I tilted my head in utter disbelief and confusion. I stood there thinking; "How can a true believer and follower of Christ such as THIS man we trust, a walking bible in his mind! Oh the man can teach the WORD unlike anyone else I ever met! He knows his "stuff!". He's good! REAL good. He seriously does not believe in a rapture. Well, out of sheer respect and honor for the man As we love him as both our leader and our brother in the faith, I simply nodded and said nothing directly to him. However, I went home and wrestled about that difference between he and I. Ah a dilemma between brothers. I began to even pray over this difference. In the word the Apostle Paul instructs us to be at peace with all men. I pondered the fact he was my brother in the faith. So hmm what to do Lord? That took some time to resolve deeply within my own heart. The issue of wether or not a rapture does exist is not a point to contend for. It was NEVER intended to become a point of contention between members of the eternal family of Christ. I asked myself a question; "So you don't agree with him, what's the worst that can happen if you drop the issue inside of yourself huh?" I paused and pondered that. I began to smile as I realized that if I were correct, then we would BOTH still be raptured and one day I would see him in Heaven as he smiled and said; "OK, I guess you were right.". Either way we are still brothers in Christ.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
You remind me of a family member I have I nicknamed "The spelling Gestapo". She's rather persnickety about proper grammar. I do not mean to offend anyone. I simply relax when I am writing. I do not think in terms of English mechanics or proper grammar. I only mean to write and get thoughts out there. That's all. I'm not trying to offend English majors or degree holders or what have you.
-
1
- Show all
Rapture? yes, God has promised as laid out in prophetic scriptures.
A Rapture as stylized by books and movies? Of course not.
Don't get Biblical hermeneutics from Hollywood!
That movie about Noah was a real joke. Same with the one about Jesus called "The Chosen". None of these screen portrayals are anywhere near the truth....except for a few of the names and even then they mess those up too.
It's like making a pan of brownies with a heaping spoonful of feces mixed in the batter. It's all feces then. None of its any good.
As far as timing of the final eschatology?
I have absolutely zero idea. There's no one alive that can tell you either.
But....what I can tell you is that anthropologically speaking, based on historical records, we are due for a major upset soon. The USA is the oldest and longest running nation that has the same government in recorded history. And America has led the other nations of the world to do the same things with their governments.
Making every nation ripe with pregnancy for a fall and upheaval.
Not that it's all going to fall apart tomorrow. Just that by timing and historical markers....we are due for a change of governments.
A Rapture as stylized by books and movies? Of course not.
Don't get Biblical hermeneutics from Hollywood!
That movie about Noah was a real joke. Same with the one about Jesus called "The Chosen". None of these screen portrayals are anywhere near the truth....except for a few of the names and even then they mess those up too.
It's like making a pan of brownies with a heaping spoonful of feces mixed in the batter. It's all feces then. None of its any good.
As far as timing of the final eschatology?
I have absolutely zero idea. There's no one alive that can tell you either.
But....what I can tell you is that anthropologically speaking, based on historical records, we are due for a major upset soon. The USA is the oldest and longest running nation that has the same government in recorded history. And America has led the other nations of the world to do the same things with their governments.
Making every nation ripe with pregnancy for a fall and upheaval.
Not that it's all going to fall apart tomorrow. Just that by timing and historical markers....we are due for a change of governments.
-
4
-
1
- Show all
There are many times that I catch myself writing a block of text and go back and go back (see how annoying that was?) and cut it up into paragraph so that the composition is more reader friendly. It makes it much easier (for the reader) to discern that they've already read a certain sentence and move on to the next without having to check twice and sometimes more and giving the reader a smoother sail through the 'scenery' rather than realizing they've become stuck going in a loop.
My years engaged in the work environment have made me sufficiently aware of the general practice of my coworkers letting me suffer with more suffer so ensure their suffering is lessened, but for those with interest in easing other's suffering, I offer a couple of pointers to make it a little less insufferable in the work of constructing paragraphs.
Of the rules for paragraphs, I generally limit each to 2 to 5 sentences as sufficient to go ahead and begin the next and worry less about the second rule of keeping sentences relative to one another in the same paragraph because, as you can see, I'm prone to using run on sentences to accomplish that particular goal. Otherwise, I would agonize over that second rule and the thoughts, that for me are difficult enough to formulate into words, would probably be lost in the same effect as if I wrote them in block.
My years engaged in the work environment have made me sufficiently aware of the general practice of my coworkers letting me suffer with more suffer so ensure their suffering is lessened, but for those with interest in easing other's suffering, I offer a couple of pointers to make it a little less insufferable in the work of constructing paragraphs.
Of the rules for paragraphs, I generally limit each to 2 to 5 sentences as sufficient to go ahead and begin the next and worry less about the second rule of keeping sentences relative to one another in the same paragraph because, as you can see, I'm prone to using run on sentences to accomplish that particular goal. Otherwise, I would agonize over that second rule and the thoughts, that for me are difficult enough to formulate into words, would probably be lost in the same effect as if I wrote them in block.
-
1
-
1
- Show all