Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Believe INTO!??? Are you on the verge of inventing a new school of soteriology?
And of course, the demons believe in God. Haven't they seen him and heard him?
And, yes, they also believe in the Son of God. Read Mark 5 some day.
And of course, the demons believe in God. Haven't they seen him and heard him?
And, yes, they also believe in the Son of God. Read Mark 5 some day.
Believing that God is one, or that Jesus is the Son of God,, is not the same aa believing Jesus, or believing in Jesus, or believing upon Jesus, or believing into Jesus.
Believe INTO!??? Are you on the verge of inventing a new school of soteriology?
And of course, the demons believe in God. Haven't they seen him and heard him?
And, yes, they also believe in the Son of God. Read Mark 5 some day.
And of course, the demons believe in God. Haven't they seen him and heard him?
And, yes, they also believe in the Son of God. Read Mark 5 some day.
1Pe 1:21
Who by him do believe into God (pisteuontas eis theon), that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
John 3:15 That all who believe into him (ho pisteuOn eis auton) should not perish, but have aeonous life.
16 He that believes into the Son (ho pisteuOn eis ton huion) has aeonous life.
Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the law..... even we have believed into Jesus (hEmais eis Christon IEsoun episteusamen) ..."
Many years ago I took the time to invest in a year of weekly night classes to study beginner Greek and Hebrew at a Bible college. I have been able to informally build on that basic understanding over the subsequent decades. I recommend anyone who wants to actually understand what the Bible is teaching should do likewise. If you are depending on translations to argue what scripture teaches, without being able to intelligently assess what the original language is saying, you are simply going to cherry-pick from translations to confirm your theological biases. Seek the truth, rather than merely to defend the uninvestigated opinions of your team.
There are two opposing kingdoms ruling now over various places on the planet. When Jesus returns His kingdom will be the only kingdom ruling for 1000 years. Are you a teacher in the church and do not understand this basic truth regarding the warfare presently raging between the Kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness?
Hardly. The kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of God is a certainty. Someone in the process of becoming a doctor has no such certainty. I would never make such a claim as you have stated. Your example doesn't fit with reality. Unless...do you believe there is a chance that the kingdoms of this world will not become the kingdoms of God?
No, because of reality. Jesus pronounced that He will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Is this true or false? In the book of Revelation it states that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever. Is this true or false?
Which goes to show you that there are various kinds of faith -- most of which are spurious. Even the demons in Mark 5 rushed to worship Jesus, so they did indeed believe he was the Son of God. And they believed he had the authority/power to judge and condemn them "before their time". Many people on this planet "believe in God" but unlike Abraham, they don't believe Him. Who in the world do you think Jesus is referring to in Mat 7:21-23?
So...does that mean, then, no one in this age is actually saved because no one can know if he's saved until he receives his "medical degree" upon death?
Of all the many commands in the bible, I wonder why there aren't any commands for Christ's disciples to become language scholars?
So...does that mean, then, no one in this age is actually saved because no one can know if he's saved until he receives his "medical degree" upon death?
Of all the many commands in the bible, I wonder why there aren't any commands for Christ's disciples to become language scholars?
True.True. But Revelation declares "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our God and of His Christ" at the last trumpet, heralding the outpouring of the seven vials of God's wrath before Christ's imminent return to earth, which has not happened yet. The fact that Revelation prophesies it, does not mean it applies yet.
Rev 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
People who gave prophecies in Jesus name, cast out devils in Jesus name and did miracles in Jesus' name, but were not doing Jesus' will.
Mat 7:21
¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
No.
Mat 7:21
¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
No.
Only your view of history. Jerusalem did fall in the first century. If the old covenant is what is in view in Revelation, then the majority of the book has been fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem. What do you believe brought the old covenant to a conclusion? Or do you believe it's still in effect? Or if not, what in history demonstrates that it has been concluded?
Earlier I thought you agreed that Jesus was building His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. So which is it? Is Jesus hindered by Satan or not?
Earlier I thought you agreed that Jesus was building His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. So which is it? Is Jesus hindered by Satan or not?
Says the person who reassured herself and others that they could comfort themselves
with the knowledge that they were in the majority (as far as her figuring methods determined).
Which is really a funny fallacy. But take your delusional wins where you can, dear.
Yes, the Bible says not all can hear. Faith comes by hearing. Jesus did come to unstop the ears of the deaf. People were
not born with ears to hear, nor eyes to see, or with a heart that could believe as you and yours so falsely promote.
You reduce faith to making a moral decision, with people choosing to believe that which they can neither receive nor comprehend.
John 8:43, 47, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:8, John 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” John 8:47 “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
with the knowledge that they were in the majority (as far as her figuring methods determined).
Which is really a funny fallacy. But take your delusional wins where you can, dear.
Yes, the Bible says not all can hear. Faith comes by hearing. Jesus did come to unstop the ears of the deaf. People were
not born with ears to hear, nor eyes to see, or with a heart that could believe as you and yours so falsely promote.
You reduce faith to making a moral decision, with people choosing to believe that which they can neither receive nor comprehend.
John 8:43, 47, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:8, John 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” John 8:47 “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
-
2
-
2
- Show all
What do you mean by "the old covenant is what is in view in Revelation"?
I would say that the death and resurrection of Jesus brought the Old covenant to an end.
No, it is not still in effect.
The death and resurrection of Jesus in history demonstrates that the Old covenant has been concluded. And the giving of the zholy Spirit to Gentile believers.
"Will not prevail" is future tense.
The church has the ability to hasten the coming of the day of the Lord or to delay it, depending on how quickly we complete the great commission. The mystery of lawlessness at work in the church, is working to delay our completion of the great commission and so to delay Christ's return and the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. So, by hindering the church, satan is able to hinder Jesus' return.
I would say that the death and resurrection of Jesus brought the Old covenant to an end.
No, it is not still in effect.
The death and resurrection of Jesus in history demonstrates that the Old covenant has been concluded. And the giving of the zholy Spirit to Gentile believers.
"Will not prevail" is future tense.
The church has the ability to hasten the coming of the day of the Lord or to delay it, depending on how quickly we complete the great commission. The mystery of lawlessness at work in the church, is working to delay our completion of the great commission and so to delay Christ's return and the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. So, by hindering the church, satan is able to hinder Jesus' return.
The life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus did usher in the new covenant, but how does it conclude the old covenant. The old covenant had blessing for obedience to the covenant and destruction for not upholding its terms. Since Israel did not abide by its terms, it was subject to the cursings of the law. This would have to transpire before the covenant could be satisfied, yes? So when did this occur?
Jesus' comments were future to the point in time He made them, but not future to His death. The cross changed everything, including who was ruling.
Jesus' comments were future to the point in time He made them, but not future to His death. The cross changed everything, including who was ruling.
If they did all that stuff in Jesus' name, then they must have have had some kind of faith in him? Does spurious faith work for you?
Well then...you came up with another lame analogy, didn't you? A doctor isn't a doctor until he earns his degree, correct? Then how can a Christian be a Christian until he earns his reward upon his demise?
Also, how does one "enter into Christ"? What puts a person "in Christ"?
Well then...you came up with another lame analogy, didn't you? A doctor isn't a doctor until he earns his degree, correct? Then how can a Christian be a Christian until he earns his reward upon his demise?
Also, how does one "enter into Christ"? What puts a person "in Christ"?