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DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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It is clearer to me than to you that Peter did not say "he that believeth but is not baptized shall be damned".
Neither Peter nor Jesus said that, nor did anyone else as recorded in scripture. Only you and others here have said those stupid words, that are trying to create their own holy scripture and distort what was actually said.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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Neither Peter nor Jesus said that, nor did anyone else as recorded in scripture. Only you and others here have said those stupid words, that are trying to create their own holy scripture and distort what was actually said.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Re "Neither Peter nor Jesus said that "he that believeth but is not baptized shall be damned".: I am glad you agree.

Re "those stupid words": Because they would contradict the rest of what Jesus and Peter taught, so I am glad we also agree about that.

(Isn't agreement much better than argument :^)
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
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Re "Neither Peter nor Jesus said that "he that believeth but is not baptized shall be damned".: I am glad you agree.

Re "those stupid words": Because they would contradict the rest of what Jesus and Peter taught, so I am glad we also agree about that.

(Isn't agreement much better than argument :^)
Not necessarily. Truth is what's important, not agreement. The vast majority agree on all kinds of stuff, but that doesn't make them right. Re Mat 7:13
 

GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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Not necessarily. Truth is what's important, not agreement. The vast majority agree on all kinds of stuff, but that doesn't make them right. Re Mat 7:13
The truth is that both Jesus and Paul expressed doubt about the salvation of those who are argumentative,
so we ought to bend over backwards trying to figure out how to agree on the kerygma at least,
while agreeing to disagree until we get to heaven and find out what other stuff is right.
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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The truth is that both Jesus and Paul expressed doubt about the salvation of those who are argumentative,
so we ought to bend over backwards trying to figure out how to agree on the kerygma at least,
while agreeing to disagree until we get to heaven and find out what other stuff is right.
The problem is, some views and so-called Christian religions won't get their followers to heaven due to their unscriptural doctrines and beliefs; they don't know how souls are saved! This is reason I take the position I do, to correct their erroneous doctrines to hopefully wake them up to the end of saving their souls as well as those they encounter and/or have influence over.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,197
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The problem is, some views and so-called Christian religions won't get their followers to heaven due to their unscriptural doctrines and beliefs; they don't know how souls are saved! This is reason I take the position I do, to correct their erroneous doctrines to hopefully wake them up to the end of saving their souls as well as those they encounter and/or have influence over.
Well, do you agree with this creed?

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:
  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
  5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
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Well, do you agree with this creed?

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:
  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
  5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).
I see nothing in it that tells you how to be saved. If this is the extent of the message, it's misleading, won't save your soul, and therefore, false. It talks about the Lord's salvation being available, and provided, but does not tell you how to attain it; it's not provided automatically. The bible says we must obey the gospel and warns of consequences for those who obey not. It states that God's Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship upon accepting Him; that's not what the scriptures teach. I find it interesting that the whole subject of baptism has been omitted, and most likely, intentionally, as though the subject was not even found in scripture.

1. How are sins remitted?
2. How does one become a Christian and child of God?
3. How are we added to the body of Christ?
4. How does the God's Spirit dwell in us and we in Him?
5. How are we buried with him so we can likewise be raised?
6. How can we be baptized into Christ if really not actually baptized? Do we someway or by some other means come to be "in Christ" other than by being baptized into Christ?

BAPTISM

Necessity or option?


Baptism is required in order to:

· Be saved


Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

1st Peter 3:20/21 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (3:21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost”;


· Wash away/remit sins

· Contact the blood of Christ

· Be added to the Lord’s body which is the church

· Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection

· Get “into” Him, put on Christ, and become a child of God

· Receive blessings in Him

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

Acts 2:41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”.

Acts 2:47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”

Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?

Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.

Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.

1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:

Rev 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”-----

Heb 10:22 “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water”.

Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.

Steps to becoming a Christian

· (1) Hearing the word/gospel (Rom. 1:16, Mk. 16:15, Rom. 10: 14 thru 17, 1 Cor. 1:21 thru 24, Mat 7:24)

· (2) Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mk. 16:16, Heb. 11:6, John 12:46)

· (3) Confessing this before men (Rom. 10:9, 10, Rom. 10:13, Acts 8:37, Mat 10:32)

· (4) Repenting of your sins (Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, 5, 14:47)

· (5) Being baptized (immersed in water) for the remission (forgiveness) of your sins after which, you are added to the Church (above referenced). (Acts 2:38-41, 47)
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I see nothing in it that tells you how to be saved. If this is the extent of the message, it's misleading, won't save your soul, and therefore, false. It talks about the Lord's salvation being available, and provided, but does not tell you how to attain it; it's not provided automatically. The bible says we must obey the gospel and warns of consequences for those who obey not. It states that God's Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship upon accepting Him; that's not what the scriptures teach. I find it interesting that the whole subject of baptism has been omitted, and most likely, intentionally, as though the subject was not even found in scripture.

1. How are sins remitted?
2. How does one become a Christian and child of God?
3. How are we added to the body of Christ?
4. How does the God's Spirit dwell in us and we in Him?
5. How are we buried with him so we can likewise be raised?
6. How can we be baptized into Christ if really not actually baptized? Do we someway or by some other means come to be "in Christ" other than by being baptized into Christ?

BAPTISM

Necessity or option?


Baptism is required in order to:

· Be saved


Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

1st Peter 3:20/21 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (3:21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost”;


· Wash away/remit sins

· Contact the blood of Christ

· Be added to the Lord’s body which is the church

· Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection

· Get “into” Him, put on Christ, and become a child of God

· Receive blessings in Him

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

Acts 2:41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”.

Acts 2:47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”

Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?

Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.

Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.

1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:

Rev 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”-----

Heb 10:22 “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water”.

Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.

Steps to becoming a Christian

· (1) Hearing the word/gospel (Rom. 1:16, Mk. 16:15, Rom. 10: 14 thru 17, 1 Cor. 1:21 thru 24, Mat 7:24)

· (2) Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mk. 16:16, Heb. 11:6, John 12:46)

· (3) Confessing this before men (Rom. 10:9, 10, Rom. 10:13, Acts 8:37, Mat 10:32)

· (4) Repenting of your sins (Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, 5, 14:47)

· (5) Being baptized (immersed in water) for the remission (forgiveness) of your sins after which, you are added to the Church (above referenced). (Acts 2:38-41, 47)
The kerygma refers to what is necessary to believe as implied by the essential "Accept Jesus as Messiah/Christ and Lord".
What you refer to are secondary details that are part of the didache or the all truth the HS teaches beyond the essential Gospel, including the need for perseverance, how are sins remitted, how does the God's Spirit dwell in us and we in Him, the meaning of baptism and so forth. Before seeking to answer such questions, we should remember that although these doctrines may be important for spiritual growth, understanding the details of this or any doctrine is not necessary in order to remain saved, because the kerygma is simple enough for a young soul to understand (cf. MT 18:3), and didachaic details can become rather complicated and controversial. Thus, a Christian needs to be humble or Spirit-filled before tackling such issues, keeping in mind that whichever position a Christian takes on any secondary doctrine, he/she should fellowship with those having a different interpretation who affirm the kerygma both verbally and by typically manifesting divine love.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
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The kerygma refers to what is necessary to believe as implied by the essential "Accept Jesus as Messiah/Christ and Lord".
What you refer to are secondary details that are part of the didache or the all truth the HS teaches beyond the essential Gospel, including the need for perseverance, how are sins remitted, how does the God's Spirit dwell in us and we in Him, the meaning of baptism and so forth. Before seeking to answer such questions, we should remember that although these doctrines may be important for spiritual growth, understanding the details of this or any doctrine is not necessary in order to remain saved, because the kerygma is simple enough for a young soul to understand (cf. MT 18:3), and didachaic details can become rather complicated and controversial. Thus, a Christian needs to be humble or Spirit-filled before tackling such issues, keeping in mind that whichever position a Christian takes on any secondary doctrine, he/she should fellowship with those having a different interpretation who affirm the kerygma both verbally and by typically manifesting divine love.
I rely on actual scripture, and scripture only, and not any secondary writing of anyone's, hence my ignorance of your posted documents, and have no apologies for that.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,197
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I rely on actual scripture, and scripture only, and not any secondary writing of anyone's, hence my ignorance of your posted documents, and have no apologies for that.
The kerygma is what Scripture teaches about God's requirement for salvation:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
  5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,180
210
63
The kerygma is what Scripture teaches about God's requirement for salvation:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
  5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).
Kool, but I learn what scripture teaches by reading and studying it
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,197
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Kool, but I learn what scripture teaches by reading and studying it
Good, me too, so surely we agree on the kerygma, although we diverge
regarding whether water baptism is symbolic or sacramental because
what Scripture teaches is unclear and thus debatable/divergable.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,892
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So, the gospel that is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes (Romans 1:16) is blah, blah, blah to you? :cautious:
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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A sandstone building with stained glass windows.

Inside are long wooden seats to sit on.

They usually have an aisle with carpet to walk on.

Often there are hymn books with songs from the 18th or 19th century.

Some have graves even on the church grounds.

Anyone else want to know what a church is?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,805
1,074
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So, the gospel that is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes (Romans 1:16) is blah, blah, blah to you? :cautious:
Preach it brother!

One single event that granted salvation to anyone who calls on the name of the Lord!
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,805
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The problem is, some views and so-called Christian religions won't get their followers to heaven due to their unscriptural doctrines and beliefs; they don't know how souls are saved! This is reason I take the position I do, to correct their erroneous doctrines to hopefully wake them up to the end of saving their souls as well as those they encounter and/or have influence over.
You have your work cut out for you if you believe what you wrote below.

This is reason I take the position I do, to correct their erroneous doctrines
You will spend forever trying to remove everything that has been bolted onto the original gospel.

The, "gospel", has more than just a few definitions, by the way.

There is but one gospel, unfortunately, and that gospel is based on a single event in history.

Your up against two thousands years of church history.

Your up against even creeds.

I think you have a snowball's chance in hell of changing anyone's doctrine.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaa.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,375
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New Zealand
A sandstone building with stained glass windows.

Inside are long wooden seats to sit on.

They usually have an aisle with carpet to walk on.

Often there are hymn books with songs from the 18th or 19th century.

Some have graves even on the church grounds.

Anyone else want to know what a church is?
Biblically. . It's the Christian community of saved, baptised believers that meets in that building.

See the disciples with Jesus as a church..no roof over their head.

See Acts.. where churches were in homes.

A building isn't a NT church..the Christians as a local body that meet there are.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Biblically. . It's the Christian community of saved, baptised believers that meets in that building.

See the disciples with Jesus as a church..no roof over their head.

See Acts.. where churches were in homes.

A building isn't a NT church..the Christians as a local body that meet there are.
CHURCH Definition & Meaning

1. a building for public and especially Christian worship.

Me winner man.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Good, me too, so surely we agree on the kerygma, although we diverge
regarding whether water baptism is symbolic or sacramental because
what Scripture teaches is unclear and thus debatable/divergable.
Anyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved (Romans 10:9-13).

I asked Chat GPT to use the New Testament only.

To analyze the New Testament and give the sole reason we are saved?

Here is the answer that Chat Gpt gave in reply.

The most accurate reason for a person's salvation, according to the New Testament, is the perfect sacrifice of Jesus—the atonement.

Salvation is made possible solely by Christ’s atoning work on the cross (Hebrews 10:10-14, Romans 3:23-26).
His sacrifice is the foundation upon which faith, confession, and even baptism rest. Without His atonement,
there would be no gospel to believe, no faith to profess, and no salvation to receive. However, the application
of that salvation is consistently tied to faith in Christ (John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9) and confession of Him
as Lord (Romans 10:9). Baptism is also emphasized as an act of obedience and identification with Christ’s death
and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4, Mark 16:16),
but it is Christ’s atoning sacrifice that ultimately secures salvation.

There you are and that agrees with my personal analysis of the New Testament.

The water baptism is an outward, physical, one off, ritual. Performed by Christians after a person
believes in Jesus Christ and has received the Holy Spirit.

The gospel does not include a water baptism.

Baptism is a symbolic event and occurs after the gospel is believed.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I see nothing in it that tells you how to be saved. If this is the extent of the message, it's misleading, won't save your soul, and therefore, false. It talks about the Lord's salvation being available, and provided, but does not tell you how to attain it; it's not provided automatically. The bible says we must obey the gospel and warns of consequences for those who obey not. It states that God's Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship upon accepting Him; that's not what the scriptures teach. I find it interesting that the whole subject of baptism has been omitted, and most likely, intentionally, as though the subject was not even found in scripture.

1. How are sins remitted?
2. How does one become a Christian and child of God?
3. How are we added to the body of Christ?
4. How does the God's Spirit dwell in us and we in Him?
5. How are we buried with him so we can likewise be raised?
6. How can we be baptized into Christ if really not actually baptized? Do we someway or by some other means come to be "in Christ" other than by being baptized into Christ?

BAPTISM

Necessity or option?


Baptism is required in order to:

· Be saved


Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

1st Peter 3:20/21 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (3:21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost”;


· Wash away/remit sins

· Contact the blood of Christ

· Be added to the Lord’s body which is the church

· Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection

· Get “into” Him, put on Christ, and become a child of God

· Receive blessings in Him

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

Acts 2:41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”.

Acts 2:47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”

Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?

Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.

Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.

1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:

Rev 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”-----

Heb 10:22 “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of Faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water”.

Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.

Steps to becoming a Christian

· (1) Hearing the word/gospel (Rom. 1:16, Mk. 16:15, Rom. 10: 14 thru 17, 1 Cor. 1:21 thru 24, Mat 7:24)

· (2) Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mk. 16:16, Heb. 11:6, John 12:46)

· (3) Confessing this before men (Rom. 10:9, 10, Rom. 10:13, Acts 8:37, Mat 10:32)

· (4) Repenting of your sins (Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, 5, 14:47)

· (5) Being baptized (immersed in water) for the remission (forgiveness) of your sins after which, you are added to the Church (above referenced). (Acts 2:38-41, 47)
What you wrote is not what defines a Christian.

Your description of what defines a Christian needs to based on the direct words of the apostle Paul.

I couldn't care less what Luke had to say, "(4) Repenting of your sins (Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, 5, 14:47)."

No one in the New Testament actually explains the gospel as Paul does.

Read what Peter says about the apostle Paul.

2 Peter 3:15
And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul,
according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you.

Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles not Luke's gospel nor the book of Acts.

There has been a two thousand year misunderstanding by the church and it continues even today.

Paul identifies the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15.