The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system

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S

Squigglylines

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GaryA said:
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

NOW you are definitely on the correct path headed in the right direction... (y):cool::)

Now, if you replace 'the last day, when the new earth is created' with 'the Second Coming of Christ'... ;)
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https://biblehub.com/acts/3-21.htm
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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presidente said:
Um, no. We are supposed to be waiting for the second coming. When He comes back, the saints are caught up with the dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. We are still waiting for the resurrection of the body.

We shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If there were no resurrection of the dead, Christ would not be risen, and your faith would be in vain. Christ was not raised as a mere metaphor.
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This day you will be with me in paradise.
Soul sleep is a myth.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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Komentaja said:
The only reason you are forced to say that is because you just refuse to believe the temple will be rebuilt. Simple as that.
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My point is not to say that no temple will/would be rebuilt - we all know there are many today who want to build another temple; rather, that no physical temple can be built that God would accept as being valid. I do not believe the Bible would use the phrase 'the temple of God' to describe something that God would not consider valid. My 'in the abstract' statement describes the only other possibility I can imagine.
 
GaryA

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SomeDisciple said:
That idea, from what I understand is based on a warped understanding of Hebrews 9:8 that is taught in preterism.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

But if you actually look at the context; the discussion in Hebrews 9 does not refer to the destruction of the temple at all; but in fact this verse with the verse GaryA mentioned earlier, (Mark 15:38) shows that there cannot have been an 'overlap', 'transition' or 'intertestamental period'.
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Yes - correct - when the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, the temple service was done in terms of it [ever again] being acceptable/accepted by God.

HeIsHere said:
Can you be specific about "warped"?

The destruction of he temple occurred in 70 AD, until that time there was still sacrifices occurring and some people being converted to the faith (that is time of transition) once the temple was destroyed the entire religious system of ancient Israel was done.

There is nothing warped, it is historical fact.
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Any temple service performed any time after the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom was not acceptable to God.
 
TMS

TMS

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MrE said:
Except he already came "a second time." You might recall that he died and was placed in a tomb with a large stone sealing the entrance...... then, a few days later......

Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord1 descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

The story is then picked up again in the book of Acts>>>

I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after he had given orders by the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.
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Okay... True, this is what the word says.
How does that prove or disprove the false prophesies being taught today.

Teachings from preterism and futurism accepted today. Preterism is easy to disprove and fails in many ways.
Futurism is more dangerous because so many protestant Church's have accepted and teach it.

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Joh 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Kingdom of heaven.... not earth.
When Jesus comes He will take the saved back to Heaven until the millennium finishes.
 
Hakawaka

Hakawaka

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GaryA said:
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

NOW you are definitely on the correct path headed in the right direction... (y):cool::)

Now, if you replace 'the last day, when the new earth is created' with 'the Second Coming of Christ'... ;)
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Yeah second coming of course. Some believe there is a millennium in between the new heaven and new earth, some people believe its simultaneous. However we believe, when Jesus returns, that is when tribulation ends.

I read your post that you linked, does that mean you believe that the two witnesses are still future? Who are they? Enoch and Elijah? Moses and Elijah? Unnamed individuals? Symbols for the witness of the Church?
 
P

PaulThomson

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Komentaja said:
As Somedisciple asked. Why not? I think it can only be referring to a physical building because of the connection to Mark 13, seeing the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be.

Even if we were to concede that you are correct and the AoD already occured, it would still lead one to question how could 2 Thess 2:4 be fulfilled by the church? The church is comprised of true believers only, not fake ones, the fake christians arent the temple of God. The living stones are built up to the spiritual temple. That is why it can only be fulfilled by a physical temple
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It can be fulfilled if the church is the temple. By a cursory reading of the New Testament, one could understand that the church is made up of both carnal and spiritual people, and that some peo[le who are spiritual canfall into fleshly livng and fall away from the faith. People who believe in OSAS might not be able to countenance the temple of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 being the church, because their presuppositions exclude the possibility. But those of us who concede that it seems possible that Christians could fall from grace do not have the same presuppositions preempting the conclusion. To us, the antichrist can indeed istall himself in the temple and deceive many ill-informed Christians into believing he is God: Christ returned.
 
HeIsHere

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GaryA said:
Yes - correct - when the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, the temple service was done in terms of it [ever again] being acceptable/accepted by God.


Any temple service performed any time after the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom was not acceptable to God.
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Yes agree, I will slowly but surely, via agreement, move you into the single non future fulfillment camp!! :D:p
 
TMS

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HeIsHere said:
Aww yes but what does new earth mean?
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When Jesus recreates it after the Millennium...

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

At the end of the 1000 years Satan will try one more time to decieve the world..
But will be destroyed by the second death with all others that are not written in the book of life.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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HeIsHere said:
Yes agree, I will slowly but surely, via agreement, move you into the single non future fulfillment camp!! :D:p
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Well - I am single - so, I guess I am half-way there... :D

:LOL:

Oh, wait - that is not what you meant. :oops:



On a more serious note - if you want to move me into such a direction, show me scripture and history that clearly corroborate it.

In other words, you must demonstrate something I can agree with.

:coffee:
 
TMS

TMS

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#177
Jesus was on Earth asking to do His father's will "as it is in heaven"

This does not mean the Earth will be the place of Jesus's reign before the second death.

Rev 20:4-12
....that he (Satan) should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 ....and they (saints) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
.... The second resurrection after the thousand years....
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
...second death...

Rev 21:2-4
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The city comes down at the end of the millenium...
 
GaryA

GaryA

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MrE said:
Except he already came "a second time." You might recall that he died and was placed in a tomb with a large stone sealing the entrance...... then, a few days later......

Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord1 descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

The story is then picked up again in the book of Acts>>>

I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after he had given orders by the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.
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Noooooooooo - this is skewed thinking.

If every time Jesus disappeared from a crowd or mysteriously showed up somewhere - that would put your 'a second time' to really actually be at least the fifth or sixth time...

Every bit of what you mentioned in the above quoted post is part of the overall 'event' in history that we call the First Coming of Christ.

TMS said:
Okay... True, this is what the word says.
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Scripture does not indicate that He had a Second Coming before His First Coming was fully fulfilled.

This is only just another way people can argue against the plain simple truth of scripture.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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#179
TMS said:
Jesus was on Earth asking to do His father's will "as it is in heaven"

This does not mean the Earth will be the place of Jesus's reign before the second death.
Click to expand...
Incorrect.

TMS said:
Rev 20:4-12
....that he (Satan) should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 ....and they (saints) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
.... The second resurrection after the thousand years....
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
...second death...
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Are the 'nations' in heaven or on earth?

Did you read verse 8 before you quoted it?

In verse 3, the nations are on the earth. (as they have always been)

In verse 8, the nations are on the earth. (as they have always been)

It is a self-deception kind of thinking that suggests that the entire human history scenario is "moved to heaven" for the millennium and brought back to earth afterward.

"You have to be kidding..."

This is nonsensical thinking.

TMS said:
Rev 21:2-4
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The city comes down at the end of the millenium...
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Correct - sort of. The New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to the New Earth - after the GWTJ.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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GaryA said:
It is a self-deception kind of thinking that suggests that the entire human history scenario is "moved to heaven" for the millennium and brought back to earth afterward.
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Anyone who thinks like this truly does not understand the "seven thousand-year days" of human history.

The Millennium is the 7th 1000-year day - the "day of rest" - on the earth. (All of the 7 days are on the earth.)

Christ will literally physically bodily rule on the earth for 1000 years.

He does not "reign on earth" from the throne of the Father in heaven. :rolleyes:
 
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