Who is Elihu?

[christophernyc]

it seems yo me your accusation against Elihu all stems from this: you believe Job is completely impeccable and perfect in all his actions, thoughts and words, and that Elihu accuses him falsely of wrong.

couple things:

• Elihu's case is decidedly not the argument Jobs friends bring against him. they say Job is being punished for sin, but Elihu does not say this. Elihu says Job has been justifying himself at the exp nse of God, and that is not righteous.

Here is what God says about Job (twice) in chapters 1 & 2, "there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil." That is God's opinion of Job's character. Job then perseveres through his ordeal and does not lose his faith. God then says (twice) that Job has spoken rightly about him in chapter 42. Yes, Elihu is an accuser, and Elihu is wrong.

Do you have references for your extrapolations of Elihu not saying Job is punished for sin? As encouraged before, it's incumbent upon the reader to read what Elihu actually says. Here are a few examples:

1. Job 34:10,11, (Elihu speaking)

"Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
For He repays man according to his work,
And makes man to find a reward according to his way."

Elihu does not believe God would allow suffering unless there was a *cause*. So if Job is suffering, he is being punished for wrongdoing. Yet we already know this is not the case with Job.

2. Job 34:24-27 (Elihu speaking)

"He [God] breaks in pieces mighty men without inquiry,
And sets others in their place.
Therefore He knows their works;
He overthrows them in the night,
And they are crushed.
He strikes them as wicked men
In the open sight of others,
Because they turned back from Him,
And would not consider any of His ways,"

Again, Elihu bloviating about why Job is suffering, and he is wrong. Job is suffering in the sight of others, but not for the reason Elihu believes.

3. Job 36:16,17 (Elihu speaking directly to Job)

“Indeed He would have brought you out of dire distress,
Into a broad place where there is no restraint;
And what is set on your table would be full of richness.
But you are filled with the judgment due the wicked;
Judgment and justice take hold of you."

Elihu is clearly declaring that Job is suffering because he is being judged for his wickedness. This as we know is blatantly false.

Do not be deceived by Elihu. Do not be seduced either into thinking he thinks differently than the 3 friends, despite how he phrases it. What makes Elihu even worse is that he not only has the same opinion about Job as his 3 friends, but Elihu is also sadistic about it.

 

[christophernyc]

• God brings the same accusation against Job as Elihu does.
• Job repents.

[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you read the previous reply, but there is a clear distinction with how God addresses Job and how Elihu address Job. Elihu makes *accusations* while God asks *questions*.

Job relents.

 

[tttallison]

Here is what God says about Job (twice) in chapters 1 & 2, "there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil." That is God's opinion of Job's character. Job then perseveres through his ordeal and does not lose his faith. God then says (twice) that Job has spoken rightly about him in chapter 42. Yes, Elihu is an accuser, and Elihu is wrong.

Do you have references for your extrapolations of Elihu not saying Job is punished for sin? As encouraged before, it's incumbent upon the reader to read what Elihu actually says. Here are a few examples:

What God is saying is that Job has said the right thing, and that right thing was his confession, when he said he abhorred himself and repented. What you are saying flies in the face of Job 40:2 when God said, "Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it."

Was Job right when he reproved God?

1. Job 34:10,11, (Elihu speaking)

"Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
For He repays man according to his work,
And makes man to find a reward according to his way."

Elihu does not believe God would allow suffering unless there was a *cause*. So if Job is suffering, he is being punished for wrongdoing. Yet we already know this is not the case with Job.

Elihu was sent by God and is speaking in God''s place.

Job's main sin was pride, when he exalted himself above God. What the three friends said about Job was true, and in fact Job stated that God had sent them as witnesses against him. What does the law say about two or more witnesses?

God was not punishing Job. but rather trying to save his soul.

2. Job 34:24-27 (Elihu speaking)

"He [God] breaks in pieces mighty men without inquiry,
And sets others in their place.
Therefore He knows their works;
He overthrows them in the night,
And they are crushed.
He strikes them as wicked men
In the open sight of others,
Because they turned back from Him,
And would not consider any of His ways,"

Again, Elihu bloviating about why Job is suffering, and he is wrong. Job is suffering in the sight of others, but not for the reason Elihu believes.

It is for the reason stated, else why did Job call himself vile, and abhorred himself, and repented in dust and ashes.

You have put Job on a pedestal that he does not belong on.

3. Job 36:16,17 (Elihu speaking directly to Job)

“Indeed He would have brought you out of dire distress,
Into a broad place where there is no restraint;
And what is set on your table would be full of richness.
But you are filled with the judgment due the wicked;
Judgment and justice take hold of you."

Elihu is clearly declaring that Job is suffering because he is being judged for his wickedness. This as we know is blatantly false.

Do not be deceived by Elihu. Do not be seduced either into thinking he thinks differently than the 3 friends, despite how he phrases it. What makes Elihu even worse is that he not only has the same opinion about Job as his 3 friends, but Elihu is also sadistic about it.

Elihu's words are not false, they are God's words and the scripture says so.

Logic should tell you that God did not give six chapters of this book to a liar.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Elihu was sent by God and is speaking in God''s place.

Oh ok, so when Elihu said it was his opinion, it really wasn't his opinion but the one who sent him.
Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion. Job 32:10
I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion. Job 32:17

Well, let's see who is the one who spoke words without knowledge, the LORD asked him where he was when he laid the foundations of the earth if he had understanding. You can answer for him if you want since Elihu had said "there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." Job 32:-8 Now Job had said that those present were all forgers of lies that if they would hold their peace and it should be your wisdom.

Elihu said "Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me. Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.

So where were you when the LORD set the bow in the cloud?

 

[tttallison]

Oh ok, so when Elihu said it was his opinion, it really wasn't his opinion but the one who sent him.
Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion. Job 32:10
I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion. Job 32:17

If you compare the following two verses with your verses, you will find that opinion and knowledge are derived from the same Hebrew word. Elihu is saying his opinion, or knowledge if you will, is coming from God.

Job 36:3 I will fetch my knowledge H1843 from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? H1843

Well, let's see who is the one who spoke words without knowledge, the LORD asked him where he was when he laid the foundations of the earth if he had understanding. You can answer for him if you want since Elihu had said "there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." Job 32:-8 Now Job had said that those present were all forgers of lies that if they would hold their peace and it should be your wisdom.

Elihu said "Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me. Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.

So where were you when the LORD set the bow in the cloud?

Not sure of what you are saying here. If you are implying that God is speaking to Elihu when God said, Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" then you are wrong. God clearly states that God is speaking to Job in the first verse.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Elihu is saying his opinion, or knowledge if you will, is coming from God.

I can't agree with that, but I can see where one could draw that being inferred by implication by the deception of Elihu's words, yet in Job 36:2 Elihu says "Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf."
The deceiver doesn't lie, they get the believer to believe what they want to believe. Why do you think Elihu repeatedly says "Hear my words, O ye wise men; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge." Who do you think that is being said to, Job or his three friends?

then you are wrong. God clearly states that God is speaking to Job in the first verse.

Elihu claimed his lips shall utter knowledge clearly, then answer the question that Elihu asked Job about the wonderous works of God.
Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
If you knew what he was referring unto then you would know his words were without knowledge.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

If you compare the following two verses with your verses, you will find that opinion and knowledge are derived from the same Hebrew word.

Changing the words doesn’t change the context, whether Elihu was showing them his opinion or what he knew, it doesn’t change the fact that the LORD said his words where without truth.

 

[tttallison]

Changing the words doesn’t change the context, whether Elihu was showing them his opinion or what he knew, it doesn’t change the fact that the LORD said his words where without truth.

Chapter and verse please where you think God said Elihu was without truth?

 

[tttallison]

Changing the words doesn’t change the context, whether Elihu was showing them his opinion or what he knew, it doesn’t change the fact that the LORD said his words where without truth.

No matter how many verses you take out of context to fit your narrative you still have a problem.

How do you answer the fact that God gave 6 chapters, or over 14 percent of this book to Elihu?

If Elihu is a liar as you claim, wouldn't that make God the author of confusion?

Why could no one answer Elihu, not even Job?

Why did God repeat most of what Elihu had said?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, Job 33:5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.

God said, "Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, -------“Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16

The Lord said, ------ “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, -------“Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16

The Lord said, ------ “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, -------“Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17

The Lord said, ------“Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, ------“Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2

The Lord said, ----“Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8

 

[Aaron56]

Safe to say Elihu has never had so much attention.

 

[Mem]

Safe to say Elihu has never had so much attention.

I've encountered the proposition that Elihu is, indeed, the young Elijah. And I can easily adopt this as a certainly possible notion considering that, in the same sense, after I had grown to a certain point of maturity, nobody calls me "Mem" anymore (apart from cc).

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Chapter and verse please where you think God said Elihu was without truth?

Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?

What Elihu is speaking of contradicts what the LORD teaches in Job 38.

If Elihu lips uttered knowledge clearly then you should be able to tell us what Elihu was referring unto when he asked about the light of God's to cloud to shine? You won't answer the question because you don't know what he is referring to. But Elihu is referencing somethings specific which the LORD says are words without truth. And if you don't know what he meant then how do you know he was right and Job was wrong,

But here is a perfect example of Elihu's long winded accusations, just shorter.

So do you think Romney is right or wrong in his accusation that Obama told business owners that "they didn't build that? " While not the same accusation, it is the same thing that Elihu did to Job.

Why would Romney even think there was anything wrong with the statement that Romney claimed Obama said.?

 

[Aaron56]

I've encountered the proposition that Elihu is, indeed, the young Elijah. And I can easily adopt this as a certainly possible notion considering that, in the same sense, after I had grown to a certain point of maturity, nobody calls me "Mem" anymore (apart from cc).

In all seriousness, aren't they several hundred, maybe a thousand years apart? Elijah and Job? Why would someone think Elihu is Elijah? Their names don't even rhyme.

 

[tttallison]

Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?

What Elihu is speaking of contradicts what the LORD teaches in Job 38.

If Elihu lips uttered knowledge clearly then you should be able to tell us what Elihu was referring unto when he asked about the light of God's to cloud to shine? You won't answer the question because you don't know what he is referring to. But Elihu is referencing somethings specific which the LORD says are words without truth. And if you don't know what he meant then how do you know he was right and Job was wrong,

I apologize, but I cannot interpret your question. Would it be possible to make it clearer?

 

[Mem]

In all seriousness, aren't they several hundred, maybe a thousand years apart? Elijah and Job? Why would someone think Elihu is Elijah? Their names don't even rhyme.

Haaa. Idk, If Job might've been 900 or so (he was born before the deluge, wasn't he?) and I imagine Elijah must've been a precocious kid. I haven't looked very deep into that idea really, but it seemed convincing (for all I knew of it anyway). Speaking of rhyming, I wish I could remember who it was that tagged me "Membag, the gem bag,"

 

[UnoiAmarah]

I apologize, but I cannot interpret your question. Would it be possible to make it clearer?

It is not my question, it is Elihu's-- Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
I was just saying if Elihu said his lips would utter knowledge clearly then the answer should be clear.

Yet if this will help, what do you think Elihu is referring unto when he asked Job if Job knew the wonderoud works of God, specifically if Job knew when God caused the light of his cloud to shine?

Why would Romney even think there was anything wrong with the statement that Romney claimed Obama said.?

If you were asking about that question why someone have a problem with the statement "You didn't build that, somebody else made that happen"
17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Deut 8:17-18

 

[tttallison]

It is not my question, it is Elihu's-- Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
I was just saying if Elihu said his lips would utter knowledge clearly then the answer should be clear.

Yet if this will help, what do you think Elihu is referring unto when he asked Job if Job knew the wonderoud works of God, specifically if Job knew when God caused the light of his cloud to shine?

Yes, it is Elihu's question, and it is directed at Job. Job has placed himself above God by declaring his righteousness is greater than God's
righteousness.

God said to Job, Job 40:2 "Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it." So we see that Job has been striving with God.

We read in Isaiah about men who strive with God.

Isa 45:9 "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?"

We see that Job is a potsherd who has instructed God and reproved God. A potsherd is a clay vessel that has contained sin and needs to be broken.

Lev 6:28 "But the earthen H2789 vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water."

Notice after Job's first test it is stated that he did not sin, or charge God foolishly, but no such statement is made by God after the second test. To charge God foolishly is to strive with God. Notice in Job 40:2 that we find the word contendeth. It is the same Hebrew word that is translated strive in Isaiah 45:9.

God says woe to him that strives with God.

Job is the potsherd that strove with God, and he is the potsherd that was striving with the other potsherds(his friends) from Job 3 to Job 31.

 

[christophernyc]

Safe to say Elihu has never had so much attention.

His sudden appearance seems pretty mysterious. We know he has been there listening to Job and his friends argue the whole time, but a new reader is not aware of this until chapter 32. A first time reader may even initially react by saying about Elihu, "Where have you come from ?"

It seems the enigmatic nature of this character may be by design. Perhaps he is written this way because the author wants us to wrestle with him and figure him out. Based on his surprise appearance, the timing of his entrance into the story, Job's condition (he is at his weakest physically), it seems important to determine Elihu's actual role in this conflict and what purpose he ultimately serves.

Some simply take him at face value and believe everything he says outright, but anyone who claims to speak on God's behalf should be tested, as it says to do in 1 John 4:1. I think looking at and analyzing the words of Elihu is something every reader of this story really needs to do to figure him out. Some who have combed through his words and looked very closely have found some serious problems with him.

So it looks like a rigorous debate about this character is what is needed, and hopefully that will lead to a better understanding of the story God is telling us.

 

[christophernyc]

In all seriousness, aren't they several hundred, maybe a thousand years apart? Elijah and Job? Why would someone think Elihu is Elijah? Their names don't even rhyme.

There have been some who try to conflate Elihu's name with Elijah. So let's compare / contrast their names. The first part of their names are the same with "El" which means "God". But what about the second part of their names?

E L I J A H
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin from el and Yah
"Yah" = Word Origin contr. from Yhvh with the definition being "the name of the God of Israel".
NASB Translation = GOD (1), LORD (49).

E L I H U
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin from el and hu
"Hu" = Word Origin a prim. pronoun with the definition being "he, she, it".
NASB Translation = anyone (1), far* (2), herself (4), Himself (11), himself (20), itself (2), one (6), part (1), same (28), such (3), these (2), this (33), this same (1), those (1), which (24), who (26).

Perhaps someone could spell his name Eliwho? I realize some have already adamantly made their decision and determined which pronoun they want for "hu" but it's not that simple. It could make one wonder, "Who is Elihu's God, actually? Who is he really speaking for?"

 

[tttallison]

His sudden appearance seems pretty mysterious. We know he has been there listening to Job and his friends argue the whole time, but a new reader is not aware of this until chapter 32. A first time reader may even initially react by saying about Elihu, "Where have you come from ?"

It seems the enigmatic nature of this character may be by design. Perhaps he is written this way because the author wants us to wrestle with him and figure him out. Based on his surprise appearance, the timing of his entrance into the story, Job's condition (he is at his weakest physically), it seems important to determine Elihu's actual role in this conflict and what purpose he ultimately serves.

Some simply take him at face value and believe everything he says outright, but anyone who claims to speak on God's behalf should be tested, as it says to do in 1 John 4:1. I think looking at and analyzing the words of Elihu is something every reader of this story really needs to do to figure him out. Some who have combed through his words and looked very closely have found some serious problems with him.

So it looks like a rigorous debate about this character is what is needed, and hopefully that will lead to a better understanding of the story God is telling us.

You ask, where did Job come from? The answer seems obvious when you read the whole book. We can clearly see that Job requested him twice.

Job 9:14-15 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him? Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.

Job 9:33-35 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me: Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.

Job 13:19-22 Who is he that will plead with me? for now, if I hold my tongue, I shall give up the ghost. Only do not two things unto me: then will I not hide myself from thee. Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid. Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.

We can also see that Elihu stated that Job requested him.

Elihu speaking. Job 33:5-7 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up. Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay. Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.

Notice how Elihu's answer lines up with Job's request.