Ham saw his father naked, why Noah cursed Canaan (Son of Ham) instead of Ham?

[Godsgood]

Might be an interesting subject for a separate thread, but it's off topic here. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^




I don't know of any scripture that supports the idea that God cursed Ham, much less 'the soul of Ham.'

In short-- there's no such thing as the curse of Ham. The closest you will find is, don't eat pork.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, would you like to post in separate Thread?

 

[MrE]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, would you like to post in separate Thread?

If you were to start a topic to discuss “the soul” of man.. I would comment, yes.

 

[CommodoreTeach]

Because everything reproduces after its own kind. Even if you believe angels had relations with women, how did they magically reproduce after another kind?

God commanded that everything reproduce after its kind. It doesn't mean it was always so.

If it couldn't be twisted, why does God command in Leviticus that His people don't interbreed their cattle between kinds?

Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

 

[Cameron143]

God commanded that everything reproduce after its kind. It doesn't mean it was always so.

If it couldn't be twisted, why does God command in Leviticus that His people don't interbreed their cattle between kinds?

Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Because God separated Israel for Himself, and wanted them to be pure and chaste in all their ways. But even in this, sheep only produced sheep, goats only goats, and cattle only cattle.

 

[Dino246]

Because everything reproduces after its own kind. Even if you believe angels had relations with women, how did they magically reproduce after another kind?

We know that God created humans in His image. If God also created angels in His image, it is not unreasonable to conclude they could mate and produce offspring.

Regardless, nowhere in Scripture is it stated that angels “could not” produce offspring if they mated with humans. Methinks you have a preconceived belief that prohibits you from accepting a possibility.

 

[Cameron143]

We know that God created humans in His image. If God also created angels in His image, it is not unreasonable to conclude they could mate and produce offspring.

Regardless, nowhere in Scripture is it stated that angels “could not” produce offspring if they mated with humans. Methinks you have a preconceived belief that prohibits you from accepting a possibility.

Actually the Bible teaches that each thing produces after its own kind. Unless you are making the case that men and angels are the same kind, you like the serpent, don't have a leg to stand on.
I can argue from scripture as to why they are not the same kind. Do you have any scripture that says men and angels are the same kind?

 

[Grace911]

I don't believe Ham had intercourse with his father. Instead, he uncovered his father's nakedness by having intercourse with Noah's wife.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

 

[Dino246]

Actually the Bible teaches that each thing produces after its own kind. Unless you are making the case that men and angels are the same kind, you like the serpent, don't have a leg to stand on.
I can argue from scripture as to why they are not the same kind. Do you have any scripture that says men and angels are the same kind?

You're welcome to argue as you see fit, but first you must explain Genesis 6:1-4. Please, don't waste your time or mine with the "descendants of Seth" fallacy.

When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

 

[MrE]

I don't believe Ham had intercourse with his father. Instead, he uncovered his father's nakedness by having intercourse with Noah's wife.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

That just doesn’t play well—

Ham has sex with his mom and the punishment his father exacts is on only one of the grandsons?

Nah— not credible.

 

[Cameron143]

You're welcome to argue as you see fit, but first you must explain Genesis 6:1-4. Please, don't waste your time or mine with the "descendants of Seth" fallacy.

When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

None of which says that angels can have offspring with humans.
Also notice, Nephilim were already on the earth in those days before the sons of God went in to the women.
Also, earlier you suggested that angels were made in the image of God. Can you give biblical evidence for this?

 

[Dino246]

None of which says that angels can have offspring with humans.
Also notice, Nephilim were already on the earth in those days before the sons of God went in to the women.

Yes, the overwhelmingly common interpretation is that Nephilim were the result of such unions, not in existence before such unions.

Also, earlier you suggested that angels were made in the image of God. Can you give biblical evidence for this?

Perhaps you missed the "If"?

 

[Dino246]

That just doesn’t play well—

Ham has sex with his mom and the punishment his father exacts is on only one of the grandsons?

Nah— not credible.

Very credible, considering that Reuben did the same thing with Jacob's wives. See Genesis 35:22 and 49:4.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, the overwhelmingly common interpretation is that Nephilim were the result of such unions, not in existence before such unions.


Perhaps you missed the "If"?

So if most people believe something, it must be true. And just saying it is the overwhelmingly common interpretation doesn't make it so. You still have to show that something can reproduce after another kind. It goes directly contrary to what scripture explicitly states.

 

[MrE]

Very credible, considering that Reuben did the same thing with Jacob's wives. See Genesis 35:22 and 49:4.

No. Reuben sleeping with one of his father’s girlfriends is not “the same thing” as sleeping with his mom. And scripture has no trouble saying so, when he slept with his dad’s concubine. It doesn’t use any special code words, it just says it like it is.

 

[Dino246]

No. Reuben sleeping with one of his father’s girlfriends is not “the same thing” as sleeping with his mom. And scripture has no trouble saying so, when he slept with his dad’s concubine. It doesn’t use any special code words, it just says it like it is.

Yes, but it's the same sin, according to Leviticus 18:8: "“‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father." Both Reuben and Ham dishonoured their father by sleeping with his wife; that one was the younger man's mother is secondary to my point. Ham slept with his mother and she likely bore Canaan, and Noah's cognizance of the sin would lead directly to him cursing Canaan, stating that the boy would not be counted among his "brothers".

No special code words needed.

 

[Dino246]

So if most people believe something, it must be true. And just saying it is the overwhelmingly common interpretation doesn't make it so. You still have to show that something can reproduce after another kind. It goes directly contrary to what scripture explicitly states.

I don't have to prove anything. I have a rational conclusion that follows the available evidence. You reject it based on the absence of particular evidence.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't have to prove anything. I have a rational conclusion that follows the available evidence. You reject it based on the absence of particular evidence.

I reject it based on scripture. All you have is conjecture while rejecting biblical truth. The truth is angels aren't the same kind as humans. If they were, the blood of Christ could pay for their sins. The fact that Jesus had to become a man to save mankind but in so doing didn't save any angels let's you know...not the same kind.

 

[Dino246]

I reject it based on scripture. All you have is conjecture while rejecting biblical truth. The truth is angels aren't the same kind as humans. If they were, the blood of Christ could pay for their sins. The fact that Jesus had to become a man to save mankind but in so doing didn't save any angels let's you know...not the same kind.

You're welcome to your conclusions, but I would encourage you to tone down your arrogance. My conclusion is based on Scripture just as much as yours is.

 

[lrs68]

how were there giants in Canaan since the nephilim were all destroyed in the flood?

Ham's wife.

 

[lrs68]

So scripture is debunked? Ok I'm game, so where is the sun located in the universe if not in the midst of heaven as written in the scripture. I would think one would need to know the shape of the universe before they could say wouldn't you think?

So what does your science say is the shape?

View attachment 275897

You do realize that since the discovery of thousands of other solar systems that the evidence provided above is null and void?

This was created when Science only believed there was just our solar system that existed. Clearly they missed the mark by 13.795 billion years.