Did God plan for man to fall to prove something to Satan and his angels?
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Yeah the point remains Either God planned to grove his own heart and repent himself for creating us ……or it just means what it says when he blames man for corrupting creation it’s because man corrupted the good creation he gave them
Either this was gods plan all along
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
Genesis 6:5-7 KJV
The argument that This is Gods plan and will doesn’t make any sense …. To me anyways the terms grieved and repent sort of don’t fit that theory and then also
God doesn’t do something and then blame and punish us for it when it’s his Will and plan and doing . God didn’t create us to be his scapegoats
“And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.”
Genesis 6:12 KJV
Not something God did but something mankind did through the flesh
“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:13
Gods plan was to create everything then cause man to sin and corrupt everything , blame us for it all then destroy and punish those he created and willed to do all this ???
or did mankind corrupt the lords way upon the earth and fill the earth with wickedness and violence ? And then it repented him because of what we had become and he decided to destroy mankind and all flesh with the earth ?
it seems like that theory has a lot of holes but it’s only my opinion . I believe mankinds will eas corrupted by the devil and is the reason creation fell.
Not that God planned to grieve his own heart by creating a good world , purposing and willing for man to corrupt it , blaming them for it ,repenting himself for the part of creating mankind and putting them in charge of the earth and finally destroying them all but a few because he willed that they do all this ……
I’ve read Paul’s letters I don’t believe that he is saying anywhere in then that Gods Will is that mankind sins even from the first commandment it’s very clear bivouac Gods Will is that man doesn’t sin and die from “thou shalt not eat the fruit …you’ll surely die “ to thou shalt not kill , and anyone who kills a man must surely be put to death “
When God tells man “ thou shalt not do this thing “ he’s expressing his Will to them. What he teaches man to do and not do is an expression and extension of his Will for us.
It isn’t that God wants us to sin so we sin and then God wants us to be righteous so we’re righteous his Will isn’t like that he’s incorporated mankind’s agency from the very beginning giving us dominion upon earth .
He communicates with man what his Will is then we either accept and believe him or we reject and deny him
Either this was gods plan all along
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
Genesis 6:5-7 KJV
The argument that This is Gods plan and will doesn’t make any sense …. To me anyways the terms grieved and repent sort of don’t fit that theory and then also
God doesn’t do something and then blame and punish us for it when it’s his Will and plan and doing . God didn’t create us to be his scapegoats
“And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.”
Genesis 6:12 KJV
Not something God did but something mankind did through the flesh
“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:13
Gods plan was to create everything then cause man to sin and corrupt everything , blame us for it all then destroy and punish those he created and willed to do all this ???
or did mankind corrupt the lords way upon the earth and fill the earth with wickedness and violence ? And then it repented him because of what we had become and he decided to destroy mankind and all flesh with the earth ?
it seems like that theory has a lot of holes but it’s only my opinion . I believe mankinds will eas corrupted by the devil and is the reason creation fell.
Not that God planned to grieve his own heart by creating a good world , purposing and willing for man to corrupt it , blaming them for it ,repenting himself for the part of creating mankind and putting them in charge of the earth and finally destroying them all but a few because he willed that they do all this ……
I’ve read Paul’s letters I don’t believe that he is saying anywhere in then that Gods Will is that mankind sins even from the first commandment it’s very clear bivouac Gods Will is that man doesn’t sin and die from “thou shalt not eat the fruit …you’ll surely die “ to thou shalt not kill , and anyone who kills a man must surely be put to death “
When God tells man “ thou shalt not do this thing “ he’s expressing his Will to them. What he teaches man to do and not do is an expression and extension of his Will for us.
It isn’t that God wants us to sin so we sin and then God wants us to be righteous so we’re righteous his Will isn’t like that he’s incorporated mankind’s agency from the very beginning giving us dominion upon earth .
He communicates with man what his Will is then we either accept and believe him or we reject and deny him
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Your man made theology has God learning from His creature, He looked from without Himself, saw what He creatures would do, then formulated a counter measure. God in your warped view had counsellors Rom 11:34
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Isa 40:13
Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Isa 40:13
Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
God doesnt consult outside of Himself to form His Eternal resolutions as it pertained to anything, especially Salvation which brings Him the Highest Glory
Rev 7:9-12
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
And you say this came from God seeing what adam was going to do and sin, Oh no Adam sinned because God had purposed him to in pursuits of His own Glory and Honour !
Rev 7:9-12
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
And you say this came from God seeing what adam was going to do and sin, Oh no Adam sinned because God had purposed him to in pursuits of His own Glory and Honour !
Yes, God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting rather than reflecting His love as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (Gen. 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1John 3:8) and humanity (Rom. 5:12) to make evil actual by ignoring God’s Word/choosing to Sin/disbelieving in God’s Lordship.
Says the man who just quoted me the right way..... 
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“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
Yes God is the creator of all things
“When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.”
John 11:4 KJV
This in no way says God caused and purposes mankind to sin in order to teach the devil a lesson .
God created all things and yes he can turn bad things to good for the glory of God.
This doesn’t suggest that God willed and caused mankind to sin. He expressed his Will to them clearly in intelligible words
Sinners don’t get to blame God for thier actions and claim it’s his Will he has stated from the beginning that sin is not his Will and it Carrie’s a death sentance for mankind.
satan is the one who willed mankind sin and die the creatures God made to live and rule earth were led astray not by God but by his enemy
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
Revelation 12:9 KJV
God didn’t deceive us Satan did God told us the truth about the fruit and instructed man of how not to eat the fruit and die . God speaks his Will he always has and still does and then those who hear and believe know his Will and can follow after life
Genesis 1:1 KJV
Yes God is the creator of all things
“When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.”
John 11:4 KJV
This in no way says God caused and purposes mankind to sin in order to teach the devil a lesson .
God created all things and yes he can turn bad things to good for the glory of God.
This doesn’t suggest that God willed and caused mankind to sin. He expressed his Will to them clearly in intelligible words
Sinners don’t get to blame God for thier actions and claim it’s his Will he has stated from the beginning that sin is not his Will and it Carrie’s a death sentance for mankind.
satan is the one who willed mankind sin and die the creatures God made to live and rule earth were led astray not by God but by his enemy
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
Revelation 12:9 KJV
God didn’t deceive us Satan did God told us the truth about the fruit and instructed man of how not to eat the fruit and die . God speaks his Will he always has and still does and then those who hear and believe know his Will and can follow after life
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It was a false doctrine. God said this
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
then Satan came along and said this
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:4-5
is it evil to hear Gods word then deceive others and tell them the opposite n order to lead them astray to into death ?
God calls it murder
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
John 8:44 KJV
Is the first liar ? First murderer ? Someone who has no truth in him is he evil ? Is leading Gods beloved creation into death and violence and destruction evil ?
I’m certainly not satans judge but I would think so yes . Given everlasting fire was prepared for him he’s called a murderer liar and blamed for leading everyone astray …. I think it was yes but it’s just my opinion I think this subject is pretty basic . God is holy and doesn’t now nor ever has he been the driving force behind mankind’s sin nor did he purpose and cause it
pauls letters can be hard to understand at times if we don’t learn the Old Testament because he hearkens back so often to it . I think it’s plain and n the first few chapters of the Bible app the way to the end. Satan is real too and the Bible orettt much blames him for corrupting mankknd and then blames mankind for following after the lie corrupting the earth they were given but Gods plan is to destroy this one and create a new one that’s not defiles by man’s corrupt rule but ruled by Christ the perfect man of God
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
then Satan came along and said this
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
Genesis 3:4-5
is it evil to hear Gods word then deceive others and tell them the opposite n order to lead them astray to into death ?
God calls it murder
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
John 8:44 KJV
Is the first liar ? First murderer ? Someone who has no truth in him is he evil ? Is leading Gods beloved creation into death and violence and destruction evil ?
I’m certainly not satans judge but I would think so yes . Given everlasting fire was prepared for him he’s called a murderer liar and blamed for leading everyone astray …. I think it was yes but it’s just my opinion I think this subject is pretty basic . God is holy and doesn’t now nor ever has he been the driving force behind mankind’s sin nor did he purpose and cause it
pauls letters can be hard to understand at times if we don’t learn the Old Testament because he hearkens back so often to it . I think it’s plain and n the first few chapters of the Bible app the way to the end. Satan is real too and the Bible orettt much blames him for corrupting mankknd and then blames mankind for following after the lie corrupting the earth they were given but Gods plan is to destroy this one and create a new one that’s not defiles by man’s corrupt rule but ruled by Christ the perfect man of God
have you ever read this statement ?
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. ( lust is a product of knowing evil )
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
James 1:13-15 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
He mostly just tells man the truth about life and death salvation and damnation and then invites us to believe but some people don’t even want to hear it others want to hear it all
God has foreknowledge of the end and outcome so he plans ahead even beforhand I agree with that but what I’m saying is foreknowledge is not the same as being the source of causation . He just foresees what is to come later and so plans ahead to navigate man’s faults until Christ came forth to redeem us from adams choice that caused this conflict of good and evil that means we have to choose now being conflicted
Adam caused the struggle within us
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
because there’s the knowledge of good and evil in us now.
man isnt supposed to have the knowledge of gods bit the knowledge of God Meaning just listening to what he teaches us being with us like in Eden or like in the gospel or like ….when his spirit comes to dwell within a believer and they begin to look into and listen after his words and the spirit begins to wake up in them
often he is observing us and what we’re doing trying and testing us ….like this
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
Psalm 11:4 KJV
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God.”
Psalm 14:2 KJV
“The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men. From the place of his habitation
he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
He fashioneth their hearts all alike; He considereth all their works.”
Psalm 33:13-15 KJV
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
seems as if God is holding man accountable….none of this makes sense if Gods the one tempting man and willing man to sin and do what we do good or evil Beforehand .
one final example of this dynamic in scripture
“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.”
Genesis 11:4-8 KJV
God has foreknowledge he sees the end and knows his Will is going to triumph but one has to acknolwedge there’s definately an element of mankind’s doings really affecting the flow of things in earth until Jesus returns that is …..
all I’m really saying is God isn’t the one behind tempting mankind so we will sin and die. And hasn’t ever been.
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. ( lust is a product of knowing evil )
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
James 1:13-15 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
He mostly just tells man the truth about life and death salvation and damnation and then invites us to believe but some people don’t even want to hear it others want to hear it all
God has foreknowledge of the end and outcome so he plans ahead even beforhand I agree with that but what I’m saying is foreknowledge is not the same as being the source of causation . He just foresees what is to come later and so plans ahead to navigate man’s faults until Christ came forth to redeem us from adams choice that caused this conflict of good and evil that means we have to choose now being conflicted
Adam caused the struggle within us
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
Romans 7:21-23 KJV
because there’s the knowledge of good and evil in us now.
man isnt supposed to have the knowledge of gods bit the knowledge of God Meaning just listening to what he teaches us being with us like in Eden or like in the gospel or like ….when his spirit comes to dwell within a believer and they begin to look into and listen after his words and the spirit begins to wake up in them
often he is observing us and what we’re doing trying and testing us ….like this
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
Psalm 11:4 KJV
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God.”
Psalm 14:2 KJV
“The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men. From the place of his habitation
he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
He fashioneth their hearts all alike; He considereth all their works.”
Psalm 33:13-15 KJV
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
seems as if God is holding man accountable….none of this makes sense if Gods the one tempting man and willing man to sin and do what we do good or evil Beforehand .
one final example of this dynamic in scripture
“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.”
Genesis 11:4-8 KJV
God has foreknowledge he sees the end and knows his Will is going to triumph but one has to acknolwedge there’s definately an element of mankind’s doings really affecting the flow of things in earth until Jesus returns that is …..
all I’m really saying is God isn’t the one behind tempting mankind so we will sin and die. And hasn’t ever been.