Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

Well, that is why I asked you about the verse in the first place. I never said anything about Sabbatarians being wrong
for observing the Sabbath. But they are certainly wrong for insisting we must. That happens a lot with them. We
even had one Sabbath pusher telling us we were breaking a commandment to worship God on Sunday.
That is a flat out lie. Of course pointing out the lies these people tell does not accomplish much.

Understood re, the Sabbath. I was sharing my pov. I did not mean that to imply I was judging your pov. Forgive me if that is how my posting came across.

We are all passionate in our faith. Some more so than we can understand.
One who said we are breaking a command by not recognizing Sabbath in our faith is merely venting.
For me,God's opinion is all that matters.

 

[lrs68]

I do not agree that everyone has the opportunity to be saved! God will manifest Himself to leave mankind without excuse!
He will have mercy on His chosen and leave all others in their sin/unbelief...
Mankind seems to think that He must treat everyone the same even though He says “I will have mercy on those of my choosing”.

Paul used 1 example in Pharaoh and even added that Pharaoh first hardened his heart before God permanently hardened it.

1 example and you made a complete doctrine over 1 example.

Seems kinda strange to make a doctrine over 1 example.

 

[Magenta]

Understood re, the Sabbath. I was sharing my pov. I did not mean that to imply I was judging your pov. Forgive me if that is how my posting came across.

We are all passionate in our faith. Some more so than we can understand.
One who said we are breaking a command by not recognizing Sabbath in our faith is merely venting.
For me,God's opinion is all that matters.

But he did not merely say not honouring the Sabbath was wrong, they actually said that worshipping God on Sunday broke a commandment when there is zero commandment about not worshipping God on other days. Being passionate is one thing, but being dishonest and lying in one's zeal to condemn others is quite another. And made worse when these things are pointed out to them and they refuse to fess up. Well, it is a wide-spread problem. Another Sabbatarian would go on and on about our need to be sinless, though when pressed he would admit he was not (hypocrisy). And he would say people believed OSAS so they could sin all they want, as if that applied to anyone who believes they are kept by the power of God as the Scriptures attest. I find such statements to be... gee, I can barely come up with a word that adequately describes how ridiculous such things are. Anyways, I just wanted to be clear about not condemning them for when they go to some building to worship corporately. Or what they decide to do on a Friday night, or not do on Saturday. But when they start telling me I must do as they do? Uh, no. I have found my Sabbath rest in Christ. Also, the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. I don't know if I ever considered at what point the law is written on our hearts. It does seem to be when our heart is circumcised. Still it does seem as if the Gentile has the law, though what is actually said in that verse is that the work of the law is written on their heart. It is an interesting distinction. Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them... I tried to post earlier but the page was whiting out.

Ezekiel 36 verses 25-26 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

 

[Kroogz]

Of course you don't understand. You believe that the gospel is about choosing rather than a declaration of truth, that soils can change themselves into other soils, and that the book of Life wasn't written before the foundation of the world.

Sir what must I do to be saved?

@Cameron143 ~~ You can't choose anything. You are dirt that has a slim chance. I couldn't possibly tell you about the Hope that is in me.

Good luck!

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1 According to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, God has made known to us the mystery of His will, which He purposed in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him Who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. .

 

[Cameron143]

Sir what must I do to be saved?

@Cameron143 ~~ You can't choose anything. You are dirt that has a slim chance. I couldn't possibly tell you about the Hope that is in me.

Good luck!

Do an experiment. Throw seed into a bunch of rocks, some into a bunch of thorns, and some on fertile ground. Tell me which soil the seed grows in.

Hint...the seed only flourishes in the fertile soil.

So it is with the gospel. It's sown throughout the earth. And it only produces fruit in fertile soil.

 

[kqr_anointed]

 

[Magenta]

Do an experiment. Throw seed into a bunch of rocks, some into a bunch of thorns, and some on fertile ground. Tell me which soil the seed grows in.

Hint...the seed only flourishes in the fertile soil.

So it is with the gospel. It's sown throughout the earth. And it only produces fruit in fertile soil.

They must learn to take it farther once they accept that Biblical truth, if they ever do. Because it is with the heart one
believes. Yes, this is explicitly stated in Scripture. The heart of the natural man is stony ground. That is why God replaces it.

Of course, they must get over their deeply entrenched denial that the heart of the natural man can
choose to believe that which he deems as foolishness while he can neither receive nor comprehend
the spiritual things of God. Such a tangled web of deceit they have gotten themselves caught in.

 

[GWH]

Do an experiment. Throw seed into a bunch of rocks, some into a bunch of thorns, and some on fertile ground. Tell me which soil the seed grows in.

Hint...the seed only flourishes in the fertile soil.

So it is with the gospel. It's sown throughout the earth. And it only produces fruit in fertile soil.

Do an experiment: Ask God to change your heart into fertile soil and see whether it remains rocky.

 

[Cameron143]

Do an experiment: Ask God to change your heart into fertile soil and see whether it remains rocky.

That's the point. Rocky soil isn't fertile. When the gospel comes to an individual, that person's heart or soil is in whatever estate it happens to be. And whatever that estate is will determine if the seed will grow and flourish. And if God hasn't prepared the soil, and the heart hasn't undergone divine alteration, the gospel isn't received.
I'm all for men calling upon the name of the Lord. But except a man be born from above, he will not enter the kingdom of God. At least you recognize that it is God who changes the soil.

 

[GWH]

That's the point. Rocky soil isn't fertile. When the gospel comes to an individual, that person's heart or soil is in whatever estate it happens to be. And whatever that estate is will determine if the seed will grow and flourish. And if God hasn't prepared the soil, and the heart hasn't undergone divine alteration, the gospel isn't received.
I'm all for men calling upon the name of the Lord. But except a man be born from above, he will not enter the kingdom of God. At least you recognize that it is God who changes the soil.

Yes, now if only you would recognize that it is God who allows the soul to resist being changed,
which is why reaping the consequence of such callousness in hell is just.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, now if only you would recognize that it is God who allows the soul to resist being changed,
which is why reaping the consequence of such callousness in hell is just.

Man's fallen nature is already contrary to God. This is why a change of heart is necessary to begin with. And I do believe God is just in bringing judgment upon the unrepentant, just as He is just to forgive sinners who confess their sins.

 

[Rufus]

You just repeated what I said. Thanks.

Hey, what are friends for, right?

 

[Magenta]

Man's fallen nature is already contrary to God. This is why a change of heart is necessary to begin with. And I do believe God is just in bringing judgment upon the unrepentant, just as He is just to forgive sinners who confess their sins.

Not just contrary but actually opposed, and inherently hostile towards.

Those who promote free will mostly overlook those very salient facts.

 

[Cameron143]

Not just contrary but actually opposed, and inherently hostile towards.

Those who promote free will mostly overlook those very salient facts.

What? No way. That would require God to act first for someone to be saved? Hmmmm....are you sure?

 

[Magenta]

What? No way. That would require God to act first for someone to be saved? Hmmmm....are you sure?

Well, according to some here, that is not necessary either even though it is what Scripture explicitly states.

Honestly, the amount of Scripture one has to wilfully ignore, contradict, sweep aside,
and/or outright deny in order to hold to the fantasy of free will is quite substantial.

 

[Rufus]

Scripture defines the world and Gentile believers are not part of it. Same chapter, context…

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

That depends entirely on the context of any given passage. For example, Jesus did not pray for the "world" in Jn 17:9 (for which he supposedly loves and died for!) because believers, like their Savior, are not OF this world even though they are in it. On the other hand, the "world" in such passages as Jn 3:16, 1Jn 2:2, etc. speak to the realm of Gentile believers who were rescued from this world of darkness but of course are still in it until they die. Therefore, the "kosmos" (world) must be understood paradoxically. No true believer (Jew or Gentile) is OF this world, even though all believers remain IN the world until they die.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The "book of the living", mentioned only in the OT, and the book of life, mentioned only once in the OT (Ps 69:28) in 7 times in the NT are different books.

I don’t agree BUT it doesn’t matter to my point

“and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can say it’s not the lord talking about his book of life in the ot but it doesn’t make any difference it says the same in the nt .

“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living,

And not be written with the righteous.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭69:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

…And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They aren’t in there because they were blotted out of the book of life because they wouldn’t repent like they were warned repeatedly throughout time


“hold fast, and repent. ….He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,”

its really obvious ot and new that people get blotted out of the book it is not that they were never written but they were blotted out of it.

Just like those people who begin in Christ and then they never repent and bear fruit . Itnosnt that they weren’t part of the vine but it’s that they didn’t abide in the vine and bear fruit they aren’t harvested they are cast away and burned up

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The bible actually teaches us a lot of we don’t reject it

 

[HeIsHere]

Man's fallen nature is already contrary to God. This is why a change of heart is necessary to begin with. And I do believe God is just in bringing judgment upon the unrepentant, just as He is just to forgive sinners who confess their sins.

Just remember God created and is responsible for that fallen nature.