New King James Version Comparison Alert

[Thaddaeus]

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Here are some verses from a Christian bible that show Justification is an on-going process, not a one-time event of faith:

2 Cor. 4:16 - though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed "every day." This not only proves that justification is internal (not legal and external), but that it is also ongoing (it's not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior). Our inner nature is being renewed every day as we persevere in faith, hope and love.v



(here, baptism).

sir I thank for your time , wow this must have taken a while to post this post I didn't look at every verse sorry, time is short. But I did look at this one and you are way off on your understanding of this verse;
2co 4:16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

This is not referring to our salvation but rather our daily walk as a Christian, If you had bothered to read the contents you would have known this, two verses down form where you are clears this up for us

2co 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It's like paul talked about when he said running a race or fighting a fight, our walk with Christ is compared to both of these, he said he pressed toward the mark of the high calling , which is a Holy life , to be like Jesus, but we must be saved to do this, only through the Power Of God can we do this, but if we don't exercise our spiritual being, then we will faint, we will run out of breath and will not finish the race or the fight, we will put ourself on the bench and not get to finish the game but we will still be on the team. we will disqualify yourselves from service to the Lord, if our flesh is stronger than our spirit.

a small word in your verse will help us to see this also, we need not to get saved every day over and over again, so this can't be talking about our salvation, but rather our pumping up our spiritual muscles
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828)

ARTFL > Webster's Dictionary > Searching for renew:
Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition:

RENEW'', v.t. [L. renovo; re and novo, or re and new.]
1. To renovate; to restore to a former state, or to a good state, after decay or depravation; to rebuild; to repair.
Asa renewed the altar of the Lord. 2Chron. 15.
2. To re-establish; to confirm.
Let us go to Gilgal and renew the kingdom there. 1Sam. 11.
3. To make again; as, to renew a treaty or covenant.
4. To repeat; as, to renew expressions of friendship; to renew a promise; to renew an attempt.
5. To revive; as, to renew the glories of an ancestor or of a former age.
6. To begin again.
The last great age renews its finish''d course.
7. To make new; to make fresh or vigorous; as, to renew youth; to renew strength; to renew the face of the earth.
Ps. 103. Is. 40. Ps. 104.
8. In theology, to make new; to renovate; to transform; to change from natural enmity to the love of God and his law; to implant holy affections in the heart; to regenerate.

 

[Thaddaeus]

also roman confirms the thought in my last postRo 6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Ro 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.Ro 6:5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Ro 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.Ro 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.Ro 6:8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:Ro 6:9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.Ro 6:10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

 

[eric51]

sir I thank for your time , wow this must have taken a while to post this post I didn't look at every verse sorry, time is short. But I did look at this one and you are way off on your understanding of this verse;
2co 4:16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

This is not referring to our salvation but rather our daily walk as a Christian, If you had bothered to read the contents you would have known this, two verses down form where you are clears this up for us

2co 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It's like paul talked about when he said running a race or fighting a fight, our walk with Christ is compared to both of these, he said he pressed toward the mark of the high calling , which is a Holy life , to be like Jesus, but we must be saved to do this, only through the Power Of God can we do this, but if we don't exercise our spiritual being, then we will faint, we will run out of breath and will not finish the race or the fight, we will put ourself on the bench and not get to finish the game but we will still be on the team. we will disqualify yourselves from service to the Lord, if our flesh is stronger than our spirit.

a small word in your verse will help us to see this also, we need not to get saved every day over and over again, so this can't be talking about our salvation, but rather our pumping up our spiritual muscles
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828)

ARTFL > Webster's Dictionary > Searching for renew:
Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition:

RENEW'', v.t. [L. renovo; re and novo, or re and new.]
1. To renovate; to restore to a former state, or to a good state, after decay or depravation; to rebuild; to repair.
Asa renewed the altar of the Lord. 2Chron. 15.
2. To re-establish; to confirm.
Let us go to Gilgal and renew the kingdom there. 1Sam. 11.
3. To make again; as, to renew a treaty or covenant.
4. To repeat; as, to renew expressions of friendship; to renew a promise; to renew an attempt.
5. To revive; as, to renew the glories of an ancestor or of a former age.
6. To begin again.
The last great age renews its finish''d course.
7. To make new; to make fresh or vigorous; as, to renew youth; to renew strength; to renew the face of the earth.
Ps. 103. Is. 40. Ps. 104.
8. In theology, to make new; to renovate; to transform; to change from natural enmity to the love of God and his law; to implant holy affections in the heart; to regenerate.

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Thaddeus, you seem to miss completely the significance of the passages. Yes, as you phrase it, Paul is referring to our "daily lives". In others words, he is saying in our daily lives we make good decisions,and bad ones. We could be right in God's eyes one day, and mess up the next day. He, in other words, is talking about JUSTIFICATION. The Church has taught for 2000 years that JUGEMENT is based on JUSTIFICATION. If we die justified, we may hope for ETERNAL LIFE as a result of God judging us saved based on our life record, based on our daily lives thruout our entire lifetime.

Consider John 3:16. For God so loved [aorist, a past point in time] the world, that he gave [aorist, a past point in time] his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth [present, current, progressive action] in him should not perish [aorist, a past point in time], but have [present, current, progressive action] everlasting life."

The present tense, "that whosoever believeth in him," or in other words, "that whosoever is believing in Him" sheds a different light on the entire verse. One would expect, according to Protestant tradition, the word "believe" to be aorist, showing that it is a "one-point-in-time" event.You might say, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved." It could be asked why Jesus switched to the present tense in a verse full of aorists. The answer is that Jesus makes it utterly clear what he is really trying to say; that this belief is an acting, continual belief, and not just a past act of faith.The present tense, "that whosoever believeth in him," or in other words, "that whosoever is believing in Him" sheds a different light on the entire verse. One would expect, according to Protestant tradition, the word "believe" to be aorist, showing that it is a "one-point-in-time" event. You, Thaddeus, might say, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved." It could be asked why Jesus switched to the present tense in a verse full of aorists. The answer is that Jesus makes it utterly clear what he is really trying to say; that this belief is an acting, continual belief, and not just a past act of faith.The present tense, "that whosoever believeth in him," or in other words, "that whosoever is believing in Him" sheds a different light on the entire verse.

Notice that "have everlasting life" is also in the present tense. It does not say you will have eternal life in the past or future, but that you will currently be having eternal life. One Greek grammar [James Hewitt, New Testament Greek Hedrickson Publishers,1986).13.] explains the present tense in this way, "The present tense is basically linear or durative, ongoing in its kind of action. The durative notion may be expressed graphically by an unbroken line, since the action is simply continuous. This is known as the progressive present. Refinements of this general rule will be encountered; however, the fundamental distinction will not be negated." Applying this definition here, he who is currently, habitually and continuously believing will be currently and presently having eternal life. Notice that "have everlasting life" is also in the present tense. It does not say you will have eternal life in the past or future, but that you will currently be having eternal life.

Next, consider whether the word translated "believe" means a mere mental assent. The word in biblical times carried with it the concept of obedience and reliance. Kittel [Gerhard Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the NewTestament Eerdmans, 1968] states, "pisteuo means 'to trust' (also 'to obey')." Vines [W. E. Vines, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1984)] says, "[R]eliance upon, not mere credence." This is confirmed further by John the Baptist's statement in John 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not (apeitheo) the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." The word "apeitheo" is understood by all good translators and commentators to mean obedience. The opposite (antonym) of believe is disobey. The verse in the RSV says, "He who believes in the Son . . . he who disobeys the Son . . ." The NASB translates the verse as, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Kittel, a Protestant reference work, clearly defines apeitheo to mean "to be disobedient." The word belief has the element of obedience wrapped in its arms and the opposite of biblical belief is disobedience.

Where I used to say, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved" I now say, "I did believe in Christ, I am believing in Christ, and I am being saved." My Fundamentalist friend has never responded to my explanation of these verses. I hope someday he will see past the high walls of his Fundamentalist traditions and see the great beauty and wisdom of the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Instead of making an unchristian statement such as, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved", you should say and believe instead, "I did believe in Christ, I am believing in Christ, and I am being saved." Thaddeus, you need to break free from fundamentalist dogma and tradition. I hope someday you wil see past the walls of your self-made prison and appreciate the great beauty and wisdom of the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[eric51]

ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?

With regard to despair, every appetitive movement that is conformed to a false intellect, is evil in itself and sinful. Now presumption is an appetitive movement, since it denotes an inordinate hope. Moreover it is conformed to a false intellect, just as despair is: for just as it is false that God does not pardon the repentant, or that He does not turn sinners to repentance, so is it false that He grants forgiveness to those who persevere in their sins, and that He gives glory to those who cease from good works: and it is to this estimate that the movement of presumption is conformed." - St. Thomas Aquinas ("Summa Theologica" 13th century A.D.)


"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

"If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 3:11-14

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - ]Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again." - Romans 11:17-23

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Luke 17
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

STRONGS:
G1787
ἐντός
entos
en-tos'
From G1722; inside (adverb or noun): - within.


1Cr 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The Plural of which is rendered "among", and this is what we find 115 times in the N.T. Look at Matt 12:28, John 1:26, the plural is rendered "among", the KJV has a severe mistranslation here from the Greek meaning.

In Luke 17:21, the pronoun that follows entos is plural, the "you" following entos in the Greek is plural. This is confirmed by the fact that He is answering Pharisees (plural) -- also designated "them". To understand this further we need to use the Bible to interpret the Bible. He is addressing Pharisees, so the question we must ask is; does Jesus intend for us to understand that the kingdom of God is within (inside of) the Pharisees? Because that is who He addresses. If not, then He must mean that it is "among" or "in the midst of" them.

So Jesus is speaking directly to the Pharisees and no one other. Now go back in that Gospel to read an evaluation of what is in the Pharisees hearts, to clear up any confusion. Remember, these are the very same persons, the Pharisees, which He addresses in Luke 17:21.

Luke 16:14-15.

"And the Pharisees also, who were, covetous, heard all of these things: which they derided Him. And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts, for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

God knows their hearts and He declares them an abomination, how can one possibly believe that a few verses latter Jesus declares that the Kingdom of God resides in those very same hearts? How ridiculous!

"Inside you are full of extortion and wickedness"

"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within (entos) the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean"

Can you not see? Are you blind like the Pharisees? If the only things within (entos) the Pharisees were "extortion and wickedness" an "abomination in the sight of God"

I state without hesitation that the KJV is erronous, it plants a evil seed, a seed which has sprouted and spread like a weed, to the stage were we are at now where so many christians believe that the kingdom is within the hearts of those Pharisees -- and themselves.

Ask yourself now - were those Pharisees in the kingdom?

Matt 5:20 "For I say unto you that unless your justice abounds more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall NOT enter into the kingdom of the heavens."

The Pharisees were not in the kingdom, neither was it possible fot the kingdom to be in them, they had no relation to the kingdom of God.

Jesus Christ was in the midst of the Pharisees and declared to them that He was the Kingdom of God!

 

[Thaddaeus]

again cup of ruin, Very nice job on attacking the authorized version of the Holy Scriptures, I am sure you are very pleasing to your god , but I am not Sure if that is the same God that inspired every word In His Holy Scriptures. for Why would He inspire the Word just to have you chop it up. everybody give cup a really big clap, NOT!!!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

again cup of ruin, Very nice job on attacking the authorized version of the Holy Scriptures, I am sure you are very pleasing to your god , but I am not Sure if that is the same God that inspired every word In His Holy Scriptures. for Why would He inspire the Word just to have you chop it up. everybody give cup a really big clap, NOT!!!

Thaddaeus, the KJV is errornous and in the case of Luke 17:21, it is such a blatant and obvious error that it could only be deliberate, there are many English versions that have the correct translation - "the kingdom of God is among you", Jesus of course is refering to Himself, He is declaring to the Pharisees "It is Me, I am the Kingdom of God!" the KJV writers would have one believe that Jesus Christ the King Himself actually declared that His Kingdom of God existed in the hearts of His bitter enemies - the Pharisees whose hearts He had already condemned as wicked and corrupt, anybody that goes by the KJV does not have the Word of God, they have a false version!

 

[MahogonySnail]

What's the best version (s) then Cup of Ruin I might go buy one add it to my collection. I agree I think this verse saying within iswrong, how can the kingdom of God be within the pharisees, unless it is within every unbeliever. Unless these pharisees were good Jews, maybe the kingdom was inside them, do we know that these pharisees were Jesus's enemies ?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

What's the best version (s) then Cup of Ruin I might go buy one add it to my collection. I agree I think this verse saying within iswrong, how can the kingdom of God be within the pharisees, unless it is within every unbeliever. Unless these pharisees were good Jews, maybe the kingdom was inside them, do we know that these pharisees were Jesus's enemies ?

Read Luke 16:14-15, Jesus says that that God knows the hearts of these Pharisees and they are an 'abomination' to Him! Well does that explain it, I don't think Jesus could make it any clearer.

What are the best English Bible Translations? You need to read several Bibles at the same time and cross-reference them always comparing one with another. These are the main Bibles that I read:

- The Septuagint with Apocrypha - Sir Lancelot Brenton Translation.

- The James Moffatt Translation.

- Rotherham's Emphasized Bible.

- Ferror Fenton Holy Bible.

- The Companion Bible, King James Version - E.W. Bullinger.

- Revised Standard Version.

- New American Standard Bible.

- Young's Literal Translation.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Thaddaeus, the KJV is errornous and in the case of Luke 17:21, it is such a blatant and obvious error that it could only be deliberate, there are many English versions that have the correct translation - "the kingdom of God is among you", Jesus of course is refering to Himself, He is declaring to the Pharisees "It is Me, I am the Kingdom of God!" the KJV writers would have one believe that Jesus Christ the King Himself actually declared that His Kingdom of God existed in the hearts of His bitter enemies - the Pharisees whose hearts He had already condemned as wicked and corrupt, anybody that goes by the KJV does not have the Word of God, they have a false version!

sir I have checked at Biblegateway.com a very good source where one can look up caetain passages in various Translation there was only two translation that agree with u as to The kingdom being among us, two sai it was in the midst of us, the the rest said within or in us, wait let me take time to show you and everybody elses the verse so you want be able to twist this around also.


Luke 17:21 (New International Version)

21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a] you."

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or among

With a foot note even stating what I have been saying that within or among means the same

Luke 17:21 (New American Standard Bible)


21nor will (A)they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Cross references:

1. Luke 17:21 : Luke 17:23

Luke 17:21 (The Message)


When the Son of Man Arrives

20-21Jesus, grilled by the Pharisees on when the kingdom of God would come, answered, "The kingdom of God doesn't come by counting the days on the calendar. Nor when someone says, 'Look here!' or, 'There it is!' And why? Because God's kingdom is already among you."

Luke 17:21 (Amplified Bible)

21Nor will people say, Look! Here [it is]! or, See, [it is] there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you [in your hearts] and among you [surrounding you].

again this one states it is the same

Luke 17:21 (New Living Translation)

21 You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]”

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or is within you, or is in your grasp.

Again the same

Luke 17:21 (King James Version)


21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:21 (English Standard Version)

21nor(A) will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."[a]

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or within you, or within your grasp

Cross references:

1. Luke 17:21 : Luke 17:23

Luke 17:21 (Contemporary English Version)

21There is no use saying, `Look! Here it is' or `Look! There it is.' God's kingdom is here with you." [a]

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 here with you: Or " in your hearts."

again the same

 

[Thaddaeus]

Luke 17:21 (New King James Version)

21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[a] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”


Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 NU-Text reverses here and there.

Luke 17:21 (New Century Version)

21 People will not say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' because God's kingdom is within[a] you."

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 within Or "among."

anotherthe same

Luke 17:21 (21st Century King James Version)


21Neither shall they say, `Lo, it is here!' or `Lo, it is there!' For behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:21 (American Standard Version)


21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.


Luke 17:21 (Young's Literal Translation)


21nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'
Luke 17:21 (Darby Translation)


21nor shall they say, Lo here, or, Lo there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.



Luke 17:21 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)


21 no one will say, [a] 'Look here!' or 'There!' For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Lit they will not say

Luke 17:21 (New International Reader's Version)

21 People will not say, 'Here it is.' Or, 'There it is.' God's kingdom is among you."
Luke 17:21 (Wycliffe New Testament)

21 neither they shall say, Lo! here, or lo[!] there; for lo! the realm of God is within you.




<LI id=nav01>
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE) © 1969, 1971, 1996, 1998 by SOON Educational Publications

Luke 17:21 (Worldwide English (New Testament))


21People will not be able to say, "Look, here it is!" or "There it is! That is because the kingdom of God is inside you.'


Luke 17:21 (New International Version - UK)

21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 17:21 (Today's New International Version)


21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst." [a]

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or is within you

again the same thing

I need to change my count but sir I think we can see that basically what I have said all along you are nick picking , which I do myself sometime , but here you are doing it over nothing amond within or even in the midst the text is the same thing so the KJB translators did not chop up or err in this verse.

so again sir I will say very nice Job In attempting to attack the authorized Version of the Holy ScripturesI will give the correct count in another post

 

[Thaddaeus]

You sir, said that there were MANY TRASLATIONS that said it should be "among" Luke 17:21, out of all the english translation that Bible gateway listed and if I have counted right,you can check for your self see I give information sources, instead of just throwing many translations up in the air. trying to mislead those would couldn't check it out for theirself.

3 out of 20 translations said among ( i guess more than 2 could be consider as many)
2 out of 20 said midst
8 out of 20 said within
7 out of20 said within/among the verse itself or either by footnoot that within, among or midst was the same thing

again sir I say Mt 12:30He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (KJB)

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You sir, said that there were MANY TRASLATIONS that said it should be "among" Luke 17:21, out of all the english translation that Bible gateway listed and if I have counted right,you can check for your self see I give information sources, instead of just throwing many translations up in the air. trying to mislead those would couldn't check it out for theirself.

3 out of 20 translations said among ( i guess more than 2 could be consider as many)
2 out of 20 said midst
8 out of 20 said within
7 out of20 said within/among the verse itself or either by footnoot that within, among or midst was the same thing

again sir I say Mt 12:30He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (KJB)

There are many more English Bible translation not listed in Biblegateway, but even so those translations that rendered "among you" or "in your midst" they are correct, the ones that rendered "within you" are wrong. All of them are not correct, if they were there would be no debate here, either Jesus was saying that His kingdom of God is within the hearts of the Pharisees or He was saying that He standing in the midst/among the Pharisees was Himself the Kingdom of God - His Royal Majesty being personally present - He was referring to Himself.

 

[hobe]

All I can say is AMEN Baruch, I guess we are in the same "cult."

 

[Thaddaeus]

There are many more English Bible translation not listed in Biblegateway, but even so those translations that rendered "among you" or "in your midst" they are correct, the ones that rendered "within you" are wrong. All of them are not correct, if they were there would be no debate here, either Jesus was saying that His kingdom of God is within the hearts of the Pharisees or He was saying that He standing in the midst/among the Pharisees was Himself the Kingdom of God - His Royal Majesty being personally present - He was referring to Himself.

nick pick it's all the same. are you saying that because Jesus said that the kingdom is among us that he can't be within us also or that when I say that He is within me that he can't be among others come dude, there was seven bibles that said it was the same 8 said within and yours is the only correct. I have already show you the dictionary said among / within were the same , but everyboby and everything is wrong and you are right. ok

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

nick pick it's all the same. are you saying that because Jesus said that the kingdom is among us that he can't be within us also or that when I say that He is within me that he can't be among others

The Kingdom of God is not within you! It was not in the Pharisees! We enter into the kingdom of God, some will be shut out, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob cant enter into your body, how are all the children in the kingdom of God going to fit inside of you or a Pharisee? Your trying to say that the kingdom of God does not exist, it's just an idea a concept, a feeling that has no place on this earth! Do you realize what that is, what the devil is doing? - listen; spirit is spirit, a kingdom is a kingdom, completely different, do you know what a kingdom is? You cannot fit one inside of you!


This spiritualized internalized self kingdom of yours, is not the kingdom of God, the KJV and associated versions are corrupted and the corrupt doctrine of a spiritualized kingdom God has sprung directly from the mistranslated Luke 17:21 of the KJV.

1 Corinthians 15:20 - "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

We are made of flesh and blood, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God, let alone the kingdom of God be inside of us, we are corrupt, corrupted flesh and blood that in no way can enter God's Kingdom, where the Lord sits on His throne as King of the Universe! The devil mocks you and all christians who have fallen for the lie of a non-existent, spiritualized kingdom!

 

[MahogonySnail]

Cup do you really think Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are sitting around some big table having a tea party in heaven lol.

Abraham , Isaac, etc represent God's people. There's different meanings for "kingdom of God". The kingdom of Heaven you are referring to is the one in heaven. The kingdom of God can also mean the church on earth.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Cup do you really think Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are sitting around some big table having a tea party in heaven lol.

No I don't think that, they are sleeping and awaiting ressurrection

Abraham , Isaac, etc represent God's people.

NO, NO and NO! completely wrong to say that, they are not a 'representation' they are real individual people who when they are ressurrected will walk into a physical Kingdom of God that will be on this earth - "Thy kingdom come"

There's different meanings for "kingdom of God". The kingdom of Heaven you are referring to is the one in heaven. The kingdom of God can also mean the church on earth.

There is only one kingdom of God! And we are not in it, the kingdom is not of this earth but is coming to earth, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, we are corrupted and the kingdom is incorruptable, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not in the kingdom of God, there yet to enter in, they are asleep awaiting ressurrection

 

[MahogonySnail]

Do we believe that we are in God and God lives in us?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Do we believe that we are in God and God lives in us?

Acts 1:6-8

"When they were therefore come together, they asked of Him, saying "Lord, wilt though restore the kingdom to Israel?" And He said unto them "It is not for you to know the times and the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power. But ye shall recieve power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all of Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Right, here Jesus is commanding His Apostles, just before He is taking up to heaven and they inquire about the kingdom and whether it will be restored to Israel, the children of Israel were to be the beginning of God's kingdom on earth, a literal and tangible place - Exodus 19:56, Deut. 10:15. A holy nation unto God with a physical presence on earth, Israel was to be the kingdom of God on earth and God was there in His Holy temple. But Isarel rebelled, they sinned in the sight of the Lord, they disobeyed His commandments and broke covenant, so God divorced them and cast them to their enemies and cut them off from Him.

So here at the start of Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles are asking Him whether the kingdom is going to be returned to them, are they going to have a kingdom with God dwelling in their midst again. But Israel were never going to attain the kingdom of God, they were but a shadow of things to come, they were a template, an example, just like the blood of bulls, neccessary at the time to satisfy God, but not what He actually means by a blood sacrifice, the kingdom og Israel was not what God really wanted, that is to come, the real kingdom is to come...Read what Jesus says in regards to the kingdom when His Apostles ask Him, these are His chosen Apostles and He dismisses them straight away and says 'it's not for you to know' He dosen't say the 'kingdom is inside of you' and 'the kingdom is inside of me and you and everyone'! He says 'not for you to know that!' You as My Apostles shall recieve power and the Holy Ghost and you will be a witness unto Me, that's what Jesus says, there won't be NO kingdom of God until He the Lord returns with His kingdom, diciples recieve power and the Holy Ghost but not the kingdom.