Master of Divinity Student

[TrustandObey]

No where in the scripture does it say that the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit will cease.

1st Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails [it never fades nor ends]. But as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for the gift of special knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

1st Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails [it never fades nor ends]. But as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for the gift of special knowledge, it will pass away.

That hasn't happened yet. These gifts will cease when Jesus returns. That means they are still in operation right now.

 

[TrustandObey]

That hasn't happened yet. These gifts will cease when Jesus returns. That means they are still in operation right now.

If the "perfect" means Jesus then the Bible is a lie.

Whatever the perfect is, it has come.

If the supernatural physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still ongoing as in the 1st Century there would be no need for a biblical defense of its existence.

You and others here are attempting to defend an issue that by nature should not need to be defended. It is like proving the Law of Gravity with a textbook.

Many here have their proverbial heads in the sand on this issue. It is both a lack of intellectual honesty and blind faith to a theology that on other subjects would not be the case.

Anecdotical evidence does not supplant the prima facie before us.

 

[TrustandObey]

I have delivered a word of wisdom. I have delivered a word a prophecy. I have spoken in tongues. I have witnessed miraculous healing firsthand. My testimony is my evidence.

Your anecdotical evidence has no more bearing on this subject than the testimonies of modern day Mormon apostles due today.

Physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit were meant to validate a claim without the need for the manifestation to be defended first. Mark 3:1-6

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If the "perfect" means Jesus then the Bible is a lie.

Whatever the perfect is, it has come.

If the supernatural physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still ongoing as in the 1st Century there would be no need for a biblical defense of its existence.

You and others here are attempting to defend an issue that by nature should not need to be defended. It is like proving the Law of Gravity with a textbook.

Many here have their proverbial heads in the sand on this issue. It is both a lack of intellectual honesty and blind faith to a theology that on other subjects would not be the case.

Anecdotical evidence does not supplant the prima facie before us.

It doesn't matter if you don't believe in the gifts though. God will still works through people who are willing to use them to serve Him.

Carry on in your unbelief!

 

[presidente]

Hello, everyone,

I have announced before that I am a master of divinity student enrolled in University. I will be obtaining my doctorate after this in theology. I have found it engaging and fun to do studies outside of schools, primarily to answer questions. A few things you should know that may provoke questions: I am a spirit-filled believer in the context of Charismatic denomination meaning I do believe in speaking in tongues. I am a continuationist and believe all the gifts are for today! I also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not walk or live the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

All that to possibly start the thread. But I want anyone to ask me anything, and I will do my best to respond with a supported response. It will be a bit slower, because I am not trying to simply debate but explain why I believe what I BELIEVE with supported conclusions that may provoke you to think or look into an idea or subject, even if you disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ! So, please, ask away! I will answer anything!

I haven't read the thread. My questions is whether you plan to earn a living in your line of study, and if so how?

Also, what is your area of dissertation research?

 

[Lamar]

It doesn't matter if you don't believe in the gifts though. God will still works through people who are willing to use them to serve Him.

Carry on in your unbelief!

This is not the issue at hand.

The issue is simply are we living in an age of the miraculous as in the 1st Century or are we living in an age of faith without sight without the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit mentioned in 1st Corinthians 14.

Where do you stand?

 

[Dino246]

Your anecdotical evidence has no more bearing on this subject than the testimonies of modern day Mormon apostles due today.

Physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit were meant to validate a claim without the need for the manifestation to be defended first. Mark 3:1-6

Tell me something: do you believe that God speaks to His children? If not, what do you do with John 10:3, 4, 16, and 27, where Jesus says clearly that His sheep hear His voice?

If you believe He does speak to His children, why do you argue that He doesn’t?

 

[Lamar]

Tell me something: do you believe that God speaks to His children? If not, what do you do with John 10:3, 4, 16, and 27, where Jesus says clearly that His sheep hear His voice?

If you believe He does speak to His children, why do you argue that He doesn’t?

I would like to comment on this post.

Are you a suggesting that these verses prove that Jesus is promising to supernaturally speak audially with Christians today?

It seems you are, am I correct?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

This is not the issue at hand.

The issue is simply are we living in an age of the miraculous as in the 1st Century or are we living in an age of faith without sight without the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit mentioned in 1st Corinthians 14.

Where do you stand?

I don't think in those terms though. I'm sorry! My view is rather simplistic compared to what you're talking about.

All I know is that the gifts are still in operation, and it's okay if some people don't believe in them. The Bible specifically says not all of God's people are going to have the gifts. Just be faithful to use them properly if God does give any of them to you and not to show them off and abuse them.

 

[GWH]

I am struggling to understand your posts.

Here is what you stated.

This is the issue that you do not seem to understand. Manna at one time fell from heaven but it stopped.

The bread from heaven was a prophecy about the near arrival of the messiah.

John 6:31-34
Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’”
Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven,
but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes
down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

The manna from heaven never really stopped it would soon become limitless.

Then you stated another bell ringer.

The passing through the Red Sea was a physical supernatural manifestation of God, but what is being called the same today is not.

1 Corinthians 2:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed
through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food;
and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them;
and the rock was Christ.

You missed the prophetic and that baptism into Moses was exactly the same today and always spiritual.

I am not claiming that the Holy Spirit and the gifts are continuous, the N.T. is proclaiming that.

You seem to be very confused.

No where in the scripture does it say that the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit will cease.

1Corinthians 13:8-13

 

[Lamar]

All I know is that the gifts are still in operation

How do you "know" this?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

How do you "know" this?

The Bible says so, but we will end up interpreting the verses differently. And then the same old arguments will cycle through.

I don't know, but something feels different in the air. Like God is telling me to not to argue any of these debates anymore.

Like there is a new phase and I need to concentrate on that instead.

 

[Lamar]

The Bible says so, but we will end up interpreting the verses differently. And then the same old arguments will cycle through.

I don't know, but something feels different in the air. Like God is telling me to not to argue any of these debates anymore.

Like there is a new phase and I need to concentrate on that instead.

Fair enough.

 

[Dino246]

I would like to comment on this post.

Are you a suggesting that these verses prove that Jesus is promising to supernaturally speak audially with Christians today?

It seems you are, am I correct?

Speak, yes. Such that He may be heard with the ears as an “audible voice”, no.

 

[Lamar]

Speak, yes. Such that He may be heard with the ears as an “audible voice”, no.

So it is not a physical supernatural manifestation?

So what is the point of your post# 388?

 

[Dino246]

So it is not a physical supernatural manifestation?

So what is the point of your post# 388?

Where is the “facepalm” emoji when I need it…

Some people have heard an audible voice. That is not my personal experience.

Your position is indefensible. Move on.

 

[Inquisitor]

1st Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails [it never fades nor ends]. But as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for the gift of special knowledge, it will pass away.

May I correct your post, TrustandObey?

The verse (1 Corinthians 13:8) does not say, "special knowledge", it says only, "knowledge".

Why did you add to the scripture?

Here is a better verse from the same chapter.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.

Which means a perfect and intimate encounter with the Lord Himself!

It is extraordinary that someone can misunderstand what is written.

The Corinthians received the perfect letter from Paul instructing them to pursue the gifts.

That is a paradox.

 

[Inquisitor]

1Corinthians 13:8-13

Are you saying that the letters Paul sent to correct the problems in so many churches.
Is the perfect revelation of Jesus Christ?

Do you believe the N.T. is a perfect revelation?

Is that what you think GWH, "face to face", really means reading about the Galatian church falling
from grace. You cannot be serious GWH?

 

[Lamar]

Where is the “facepalm” emoji when I need it…

Some people have heard an audible voice. That is not my personal experience.

Your position is indefensible. Move on.

You are simply flipping back and forth with your/them experiences.

Your reasoning is childish.

We are talking about supernatural physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit and you know it. Must I break it down for you.

supernatural
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...2ahUKEwi7x_703I2PAxWS48kDHeqoGkkQ3eEDegQIORAO
adjective

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
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physical
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...2ahUKEwjw1sCv3Y2PAxVommoFHSiVHIMQ3eEDegQINhAO
adjective


Things that can be touched and seen, rather than ideas or spoken words.
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manifestation
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...2ahUKEwj47_nd342PAxVkliYFHcVMHIkQ3eEDegQIOhAO
noun
an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something, especially a theory or an abstract idea.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

of

preposition
expressing the relationship between a part and a whole.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

the

determiner
denoting one or more people or things already mentioned or assumed to be common knowledge.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Holy Spirit
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...2ahUKEwjC5IqO4I2PAxWQG9AFHTNTIB4Q3eEDegQILhAO
noun
(in Christianity) the third person of the Trinity; God as spiritually active in the world.