Apprichate you.
I think his only help is prayer, but as you can see by his comment it may be to late.
GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.
- Thread starter Ouch
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think his only help is prayer, but as you can see by his comment it may be to late.
My comments in posts #174, 176 & 179 may be too late in Ouch's opinion, but in case it is too little, let us consider the teachings of Jesus (TOJ) in that thread, which begins:
My primary intent in the this thread (lesson) is to compile a comprehensive survey of the teachings of Jesus (TOJ) rather than to conduct an exhaustive discussion of each one. In undertaking the task of listing and enumerating the TOJ, it was found that some interpretation was needed in order to identify the teaching, especially because several TOJ in the synoptic gospels were iterations of the same teaching. Thus, a difficult aspect of the endeavor was deciding whether a later statement by Jesus should be considered a new teaching or merely a nuance of a previously cited teaching. Where the nuance or wording seems significant, it is listed separately (e.g., TOJ #10 & #81). Some commentary is given in order to connect with various teachings found elsewhere in the Bible.
Some of Jesus’ statements (such as MT 4:19//MK 1:17, MK 1:41-43//LK 5:13-14, MK 4:35, 5:8-9&30) do not seem to be for the purpose of teaching, so they are not mentioned. Other statements that do communicate teachings (such as MK 6:8-11, 11:17 & JN 6:70) seem to be meant or applicable only for that specific historical occasion, so they are not included in the enumeration. Believing God either caused or permitted the biblical canon (OT & NT) to be compiled in its extant form–since it has been the most influential witness for Deity in history–it seems prudent to accept the Bible’s authenticity until and unless there is very good reason to question a portion, such as MK 16:9-20, which most versions question, both because it is not found in the best manuscripts and because its teaching that water baptism is required to be saved and that the sign of saving faith is miracle-working and immunity from poison does not accord with reliable NT teachings (cf. TOJ #4, 74 & 148).
TOJ #1: Jesus is the Son of God. [LK 2:49] Jesus’ first pupils were His parents. By the age of twelve Jesus realized that God was His heavenly Father (in fulfillment of Psalm 2:7). John 1:14 states that God’s Word/Spirit was incarnate in Jesus. Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is God’s Son, “the exact representation of his being.” Insofar as it is possible for the almighty, immortal and invisible God (1TM 1:17) to reveal Himself in a mortal human (RM 1:3), that person is Jesus (1TM 2:5). Jesus is the fullest possible revelation of the superhuman God (CL 1:19) in the human dimension (PHP 2:7-8). And with God all things are possible that do not contradict who He is (MT 19:26, HB 6:18). The “insofar” of this theophany is sufficient, so that the Son of God (MT 3:17, 17:5) or Messiah/Christ may be considered as Immanuel (MT 1:23) or God the Son {JN 5:17-27, 10:25-38, 14:9f., 17:1-5}. This means that God may be understood as a Triunity (See TOJ #7, #49, #52 & #178).
Regarding Jesus’ humanity the NT story indicates that in order to fulfill a prophecy (IS 7:14) the Holy Spirit implanted a specially created embryo in the virgin Mary, who had not yet consummated her marriage to the virginal Joseph (MT 1:18&25). Jesus’ earthly parents did not understand His relationship with His heavenly Father at first, but at least His birth-mother “treasured all these things in her heart”—as we all should (LK 2:50-52). Of course, every time Jesus referred to God as Father could be cited as teaching this concept, but I will cite only two more passages from John’s gospel {JN 6:32-46, 10:25-38}.
TOJ #2: Obey God’s will. [MT 3:15] Notice that the accounts of Jesus’ baptism in the other gospels (MK 1:9-11, LK 3:21-22, JN 1:31-34) omit this teaching. However, it is a major theme in John’s gospel. {JN 5:17, 17:4} (See TOJ #34 & #153.) By being baptized Jesus taught John and others present that He obeyed God’s will for Messiah to identify with sinful humanity.
In John’s gospel Jesus called doing his Father’s will/work His “food” {JN 4:34}. It included giving eternal life {JN 5:19-21,36}. The work of dying Jesus called His “cup” {JN 18:11}, which surely is what was “finished” on the cross {JN 19:30}. Jesus also spoke of His coming obedience unto death (TOJ #54) as a “baptism”. {LK 12:50, MK 10:38-39, 14:36} Obeying God’s will as codified in most of the Ten Commandments is TOJ #107. Peter taught this truth via a negative example {in MT 16:23//MK 8:33}.
TOJ #3: Learn God’s Word (LGW). [MT 4:4//LK 4:4] This is the first of three truths Jesus tried to teach the devil during a period of testing in the desert (MK 1:12-13). Satan first tempted Jesus to perform a miracle; just like he tempts us to want to walk by proof rather than by Faith (MT 24:24). However, Jesus indicated that God’s Word is the fuel, food {JN 6:26-27} and medicine for souls, so if we do not LGW, then we will run out of gas, fail to grow and be spiritually sick. Or, in terms of another passage, our house (life) will be destroyed. {MT 7:24-27//LK 6:47-49}
This TOJ prompts the question: what is God’s Word? The NT affirms most of the books in the OT, and most Christians affirm the books in the NT. The next TOJ indicates that “truth” is God’s Word. Some people identify every word in the Bible with truth, but this view ignores the need for an infallible interpretation in order to establish an inerrant canon and to explain discrepancies, such as one instruction to pray for God’s will to be done (TOJ #34) and another to ask for anything (TOJ #51). A perfect revelation might also be expected to have included teachings to head off future controversies (such as “Thou shalt not murder babies in the womb”) or to answer crucial issues like “God does not prove His will to humanity because doing so would abrogate volition.” (Cf. the next TOJ.)
TOJ #4: Harmonize all truth. [MT 4:7a] Jesus implied this important logical principle to apply when seeking the correct understanding of GW by saying, “It is also written”. If the Spirit of God inspired the biblical writers (2PT 1:20-21) and created the world (GN 1:1-3), then the best interpretation of a TOJ should harmonize the totality of revealed and scientific knowledge. In his second temptation the devil quoted Scripture (PS 91:11-12) as though he were heeding the TOJ about LGW, but he attempted to deceive Jesus with a false interpretation so He would perform a miracle. Although Jesus did perform miracles, it was only as necessary in order to establish His church so that Christians could preach salvation via saving Faith in the Gospel/kerygma. (See TOJ #77 & #78.)
My primary intent in the this thread (lesson) is to compile a comprehensive survey of the teachings of Jesus (TOJ) rather than to conduct an exhaustive discussion of each one. In undertaking the task of listing and enumerating the TOJ, it was found that some interpretation was needed in order to identify the teaching, especially because several TOJ in the synoptic gospels were iterations of the same teaching. Thus, a difficult aspect of the endeavor was deciding whether a later statement by Jesus should be considered a new teaching or merely a nuance of a previously cited teaching. Where the nuance or wording seems significant, it is listed separately (e.g., TOJ #10 & #81). Some commentary is given in order to connect with various teachings found elsewhere in the Bible.
Some of Jesus’ statements (such as MT 4:19//MK 1:17, MK 1:41-43//LK 5:13-14, MK 4:35, 5:8-9&30) do not seem to be for the purpose of teaching, so they are not mentioned. Other statements that do communicate teachings (such as MK 6:8-11, 11:17 & JN 6:70) seem to be meant or applicable only for that specific historical occasion, so they are not included in the enumeration. Believing God either caused or permitted the biblical canon (OT & NT) to be compiled in its extant form–since it has been the most influential witness for Deity in history–it seems prudent to accept the Bible’s authenticity until and unless there is very good reason to question a portion, such as MK 16:9-20, which most versions question, both because it is not found in the best manuscripts and because its teaching that water baptism is required to be saved and that the sign of saving faith is miracle-working and immunity from poison does not accord with reliable NT teachings (cf. TOJ #4, 74 & 148).
TOJ #1: Jesus is the Son of God. [LK 2:49] Jesus’ first pupils were His parents. By the age of twelve Jesus realized that God was His heavenly Father (in fulfillment of Psalm 2:7). John 1:14 states that God’s Word/Spirit was incarnate in Jesus. Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is God’s Son, “the exact representation of his being.” Insofar as it is possible for the almighty, immortal and invisible God (1TM 1:17) to reveal Himself in a mortal human (RM 1:3), that person is Jesus (1TM 2:5). Jesus is the fullest possible revelation of the superhuman God (CL 1:19) in the human dimension (PHP 2:7-8). And with God all things are possible that do not contradict who He is (MT 19:26, HB 6:18). The “insofar” of this theophany is sufficient, so that the Son of God (MT 3:17, 17:5) or Messiah/Christ may be considered as Immanuel (MT 1:23) or God the Son {JN 5:17-27, 10:25-38, 14:9f., 17:1-5}. This means that God may be understood as a Triunity (See TOJ #7, #49, #52 & #178).
Regarding Jesus’ humanity the NT story indicates that in order to fulfill a prophecy (IS 7:14) the Holy Spirit implanted a specially created embryo in the virgin Mary, who had not yet consummated her marriage to the virginal Joseph (MT 1:18&25). Jesus’ earthly parents did not understand His relationship with His heavenly Father at first, but at least His birth-mother “treasured all these things in her heart”—as we all should (LK 2:50-52). Of course, every time Jesus referred to God as Father could be cited as teaching this concept, but I will cite only two more passages from John’s gospel {JN 6:32-46, 10:25-38}.
TOJ #2: Obey God’s will. [MT 3:15] Notice that the accounts of Jesus’ baptism in the other gospels (MK 1:9-11, LK 3:21-22, JN 1:31-34) omit this teaching. However, it is a major theme in John’s gospel. {JN 5:17, 17:4} (See TOJ #34 & #153.) By being baptized Jesus taught John and others present that He obeyed God’s will for Messiah to identify with sinful humanity.
In John’s gospel Jesus called doing his Father’s will/work His “food” {JN 4:34}. It included giving eternal life {JN 5:19-21,36}. The work of dying Jesus called His “cup” {JN 18:11}, which surely is what was “finished” on the cross {JN 19:30}. Jesus also spoke of His coming obedience unto death (TOJ #54) as a “baptism”. {LK 12:50, MK 10:38-39, 14:36} Obeying God’s will as codified in most of the Ten Commandments is TOJ #107. Peter taught this truth via a negative example {in MT 16:23//MK 8:33}.
TOJ #3: Learn God’s Word (LGW). [MT 4:4//LK 4:4] This is the first of three truths Jesus tried to teach the devil during a period of testing in the desert (MK 1:12-13). Satan first tempted Jesus to perform a miracle; just like he tempts us to want to walk by proof rather than by Faith (MT 24:24). However, Jesus indicated that God’s Word is the fuel, food {JN 6:26-27} and medicine for souls, so if we do not LGW, then we will run out of gas, fail to grow and be spiritually sick. Or, in terms of another passage, our house (life) will be destroyed. {MT 7:24-27//LK 6:47-49}
This TOJ prompts the question: what is God’s Word? The NT affirms most of the books in the OT, and most Christians affirm the books in the NT. The next TOJ indicates that “truth” is God’s Word. Some people identify every word in the Bible with truth, but this view ignores the need for an infallible interpretation in order to establish an inerrant canon and to explain discrepancies, such as one instruction to pray for God’s will to be done (TOJ #34) and another to ask for anything (TOJ #51). A perfect revelation might also be expected to have included teachings to head off future controversies (such as “Thou shalt not murder babies in the womb”) or to answer crucial issues like “God does not prove His will to humanity because doing so would abrogate volition.” (Cf. the next TOJ.)
TOJ #4: Harmonize all truth. [MT 4:7a] Jesus implied this important logical principle to apply when seeking the correct understanding of GW by saying, “It is also written”. If the Spirit of God inspired the biblical writers (2PT 1:20-21) and created the world (GN 1:1-3), then the best interpretation of a TOJ should harmonize the totality of revealed and scientific knowledge. In his second temptation the devil quoted Scripture (PS 91:11-12) as though he were heeding the TOJ about LGW, but he attempted to deceive Jesus with a false interpretation so He would perform a miracle. Although Jesus did perform miracles, it was only as necessary in order to establish His church so that Christians could preach salvation via saving Faith in the Gospel/kerygma. (See TOJ #77 & #78.)
I'm sorry I feel bad for you.
This was not your thread, of course you can post what ever you like, you have been exposed all ready.
I tried to get you to look at HIS word.
I have no idea why people will not just rely of GOD'S word and keep their opinions out of it.
Do you think HE needs mans help?
How about just sharing HIS word and let HIM do the talking???
Of course I'm not going to debate what you say, why?
Since you are sorry I posted some TOJ from that thread, perhaps you will feel better after considering GW in the teachings of Paul (TOP):
The primary intent in the that thread is to compile a comprehensive survey of the TOP rather than to conduct an exhaustive discussion of each one. It begins by examining the book of Acts and then follows the order of the epistles. Because the first epistle of Peter duplicates many of Paul’s teachings and the second epistle of Peter refers to Paul, their teachings are included in the enumeration.
A subjective aspect of the present endeavor is deciding whether a later statement by Paul should be considered a new teaching or a nuance of a previously cited teaching. Where the nuance or wording seems to be significant, it is listed separately. Some of Paul’s statements seem meant for that historical occasion rather than for the purpose of teaching a doctrinal or moral truth (e.g., ACTS 13:10-11 & 22:1-21), so they are not mentioned.
This Bible student humbly offers minimal commentary, which incorporates common sense or logic as well as teachings found elsewhere in the Bible, hoping that it is inspired sufficiently enough to be helpful rather than contribute to confusion.
The first reference to the TOP is in Acts 9:20 & 22, in which Luke says Paul preached that Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ, but our list will begin with the first place Paul is quoted.
TOP #1: God chose Israel for the purpose of providing the Savior Jesus, who was crucified but raised from the dead in fulfillment of prophecy, and through whom the good news regarding forgiveness of sins by faith in Him is proclaimed. [ACTS 13:16-39, 1CR 15:4]
TOP #2: God offers salvation to the Gentiles. [ACTS 13:47, RM 1:16, cf. IS 49:6] In Ephesians Paul says this truth was a mystery now being revealed (EPH 3:1-9, cf. COL 1:25-2:2, TOP #144).
TOP #3: God is manifested by His creation. [ACTS 14:16-17//RM 1:20] Nature shows God’s kindness and divine blessings provide joy.
TOP #4: Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. [ACTS 16:31] Acts 17:3 clarifies that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah, who had to suffer and rise from the dead (cf. TOP #1). This question was also asked of Jesus (MK 10:17, LK 10:25 & 18:18). Romans 1:17 says salvation is “from first to last”, possibly meaning from the first moment of repentance at conversion until sanctification ends at death.
TOP #5: God created the world including humanity, and in Him we have our being. [ACTS 17:24-28]
TOP #6: God commands repentance from ignorance and will judge humanity by means of Christ. [ACTS 17:30-31]
TOP #7: Keep watch and do not let wolves distort the truth. [ACTS 20:28-30a] Paul evinced awareness that the “gospel of God’s grace” (v.24) was a new and fragile revelation that risked being perverted.
TOP #8: It is more blessed to give than to receive. [ACTS 20:35] Paul cited a TOJ that is not recorded in the gospels.
Following the account of Paul’s mission in Acts, we now consider his teachings in Romans.
TOP #9: The Gospel of God is that Jesus was a descendant of David, who was revealed by His resurrection to be the Son of God and Christ the Lord. [RM 1:1-4] Paul says God graced him with apostleship for the purpose of calling all Gentiles to faith and obedience, including the Romans (v.5-6).
TOP #10: Although God’s creation reveals His power and love, godless people suppress truth and exchange it for the lie of idolatry. [RM 1:18-25, cf. #3] This is what Adam and Eve did. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and moral nature (love) are manifested by creation (RM 1:20, cf. Job 12:7-9). Apparently, creation combined with conscience or moral sense (RM 2:14-16) that manifests a moral Authority TOP #23)–and combined with OT law for the Jew (TOP #22)–serves as a provisional or proto-gospel (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8), which is the revelational basis for divine salvation and judgment (TOP #24-26 & 281).
TOP #11: Sinful desires include sexual lusts or perversions. [RM 1:24-27] This may be why A&E became aware of being naked following their sin.
TOP #12: A depraved mind is manifested by wickedness. [RM 1:28] The following three TOP list several forms of depravity.
TOP #13: Wickedness or evil includes the sins of greed, murder, strife, deceit and malice. [RM 1:29] Jesus condemned the hatred of the Pharisees as akin to murder and lying in JN 8:44. and Paul said greed is a root of many sins in 1TM 6:10 (cf. 2TM 3:2).
TOP #14: Sins of God-haters or atheists also include gossip, slander, insolence, arrogance, and pride. [RM 1:30] Many OT passages identify pride as a root of many sins that precedes destruction (PR 16:18).
TOP #15: Additional sins include disobedience of parents and being senseless, faithless, heartless and ruthless. [RM 1:30b-31] Honoring one’s parents is one of the Ten Commandments (EX 20:12).
TOP #16: Those who sin deserve death. [RM 1:32, cf. 3:23]
TOP #17: God’s judgment of sinners is based on Truth. [RM 2:2]
TOP #18: Those who ignore God’s urging of repentance will reap divine wrath on the day of judgment. [RM 2:3-5] God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading, and those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves
TOP #19: On Judgment Day God will enforce just punishment via souls reaping what they have sown or done. [RM 2:5-6, cf. TOP #83 & #141] Punishment is just because God does not show favoritism (TOP #22). This truth is akin to karma (Gal. 6:7-9).
TOP #20: Those who persevere in seeking God’s salvation will receive eternal life. [RM 2:7-8&10, cf. 3:22-24 & 6:23b] Paul explains in detail that seeking to earn salvation by obeying moral law perfectly is impossible, so we should accept God’s plan of salvation/election (s/e) via faith in the Gospel of Christ’s atonement. Seeking echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).
TOP #21: Those who are self-seeking, who reject God’s truth and do evil will experience divine wrath or spiritual death. [RM 2:8-9, cf. 6:23a] Self-seeking may be termed “I-dolatry”.
TOP #22: For Jews, obeying the Mosaic Law will serve as the basis of divine judgment. [RM 2:9-13&16] Verse 11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
TOP #23: For Gentiles, their moral consciences will serve as the equivalent of the Mosaic Law for divine judgment. [RM 2:12-16] Sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.
TOP #24: The only circumcision that is salvific is that which is inward or of the heart and done by the Spirit. [RM 2:25-29, COL 2:11-12] Paul said that physical circumcision according to a written code has value only if one obeys the law, meaning perfectly per RM 3:23 (cf. TOP #44). The second passage (TOP #203) indicates that water baptism replaced fleshly circumcision as the outward sign of faith in God/Jesus.
Paul spoke in terms of what a person MUST believe in order to satisfy GRFS/be saved and what an OT Jew must do to be a member of Messiah’s heritage (TOP #37, 115, 131, 132). In terms of the Gospel, a soul MUST have faith in Christ, and while persevering in such faith a Christian must strive for moral maturation.
TOP #25: All have sinned by breaking moral law but may be justified by God’s grace through faith in Christ’s redemption or atonement. [RM 3:9-26] Verse 21 states that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off. Verse 22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e. Verse 22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#22).
TOP #26: Abraham (a former Gentile) is the spiritual father of all who have faith in God and Jesus. [RM 4:1-25] Those who are forgiven are credited as sharing the innocence/righteousness of Christ by God (RM 4:3-11). Some call this “imputed” righteousness.
TOP #27: Those who have been justified via faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ (LJC) receive the Holy Spirit in their hearts (HS). [RM 5:1-5] This echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God. Verses 2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.
I don't debate HIS word, I debate your twisting of it and harmonizing it like HE needs your worldly wisdom and help WHO ARE YOU to help him?
IT HIS WORD, JESUS just needs everyone to OBEY it the way it is written.
Since you can't tell the difference I don't debate you at all.
After being exposed I'm suprized your still here trying to convince me your right, so strange.
Since your word, in your mind trumps GOD'S word I ask you who do you work for?
You are missing an important fact. It is God who chose to communicate through unknown tongues.
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4
"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Also, the interaction between God and man's renewed spirit takes place through tongues:
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him, however it may be that in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor. 14:2
Paul explained when speaking in tongues his spirit was doing the praying. "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Clearly Paul trusted that whatever God was placing into his spirit was far more important than the need to know what it was on a conscience level.
Well, since you do not discuss GW per Paul either, perhaps we can try some key teachings from the OT thread:
In this thread key (related to the NT) truths introduced in the Old Testament (OT) are briefly elaborated by references to the New Testament (NT) along with some commentary.
GN 1:1-3. “God created the heavens and the earth” by saying “Let there be…”, so the supernatural world manifests the Word of God in an impersonal way. As Paul teaches in RM 1:20, “Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” And John says in JN 1:14, “The Word became flesh [human] and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” The scientific “big bang” theory regarding the origin of the universe is quite compatible with the biblical story, theorizing that just before the expansion all matter in the universe was compressed into a “singularity” of energy or “light”. However, the point of GN is not how the world was created or how long it took, but who created it and why. It is concerned with metaphysics rather than mere physics. There is no reason to believe that the “days” in GN 1 must refer to 24 hour periods, because 2PT 2:8 says “With the Lord a day is like a thousand [or a billion] years”, so it is permissible to believe God created the world using whatever methods taking however long scientific data seem to support.
GN 1:27. God created man in his own image, male and female. Here we have the equality of the sexes expressed 3,000 years ago, because the word “image” obviously refers to God’s personality rather than to sexuality. Essential equality is confirmed in GN 2:22 by Eve’s creation from Adam’s rib or side to be his partner rather than from his foot to be his slave. Although all of Jesus’ twelve apostles were male, many of his disciples were female, and Paul writes (in GL 3:38), “There is neither… male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” In EPH 5:21, Paul added “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” Again, current scientific theory based on genetic research is that humanity descended from one couple in Africa about 50,000 years ago, which is compatible with the biblical story of Adam and Eve, which has two accounts, neither of which is meant to be scientific or historical (explaining how and when), but rather theological and moral (God is Creator and people are sinners).
GN 2:24. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh” indicates that marriage is a spiritual union of one man and one wife, not merely a ceremony or legal contract. Jesus quoted this verse and added “So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” (MT 19:4-6) The only relationship in which sexual intercourse is appropriate or moral is marriage; extramarital sex is the sin of fornication, which is akin to the sin of pornography (cf. GL 5:19, RM 1:27). Also, because divorce is wrong, the only moral option for a married couple is to work to be happy rather than be miserable and become spiritually divorced, and if happiness is not achieved, it would have been better not to marry (cf. MT 19:8-10).
GN 3:4. The serpent contradicted God and thereby tempted Adam and Eve to commit the first sin. In GN 2:17, God had told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but the serpent introduced the option of ungodliness or functional atheism, which they chose. The first or original sin was not eating physical fruit, but rather choosing not to doubt the Devil, not to cooperate with God, and not asking God why the serpent contradicted what He had told them (MT 7:7). It is wise to question God.
GN 3:7-13. Adam and Eve tried to cover up their crime, refusing to accept responsibility for their mistakes. They should have confessed immediately (1JN 1:9). Instead their ungodly attitude was manifested by a chain of sins, including their silly attempt to hide from God and to blame someone else and very likely “dysfunctional” parenting that probably contributed to the emotional disturbance (anger) in Cain that resulted in the murder of Abel and so on and so forth through the millenniums (cf. humanity’s sinful “King of the Hill”/KOTH strife cited in Lessons 1 & 2).
GN 9:6. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed.” Capital punishment is appropriate for capital crimes. This is the first time the role of humanity in establishing moral laws and enforcing them with just or logical consequences is affirmed in the Bible. Its NT equivalent is RM 13:1-4. It is intended to discourage people from choosing or practicing KOTH.
GN 9:7-17. In verse seven, humanity is commanded to “Be fruitful and increase in number”, but not to overpopulate and pollute the earth. In verse 15 God says, “Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.” If God promises not to destroy life again, neither should mankind create a flood of pollution that destroys it, but rather mankind should be good stewards of our earthly resources and perhaps limit procreation if needed in order to do so.
GN 11:9b. “…The Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.” This verse apparently contradicts the teaching of Paul in 1CR 14:33: “God is not a God of disorder [disunity or KOTH] but of peace.” Sometimes when interpreting the Bible, we are forced to choose between diverse interpretations or conceptions of God. In this case, it would seem that the writer fails to distinguish between God’s intentional will for all to be saved (1TM 2:3-4) and unified (JN 17:20-23) and His permissive will that allows souls to sin (MT 23:37), become divided and engage in KOTH.
GN 12:3b. All people on earth will be blessed through Abraham. About 2,000 B.C., Abraham became a monotheist and moved from Ur to Canaan, where he became the patriarch of the Hebrews, who became the Israelites after the Exodus and eventually the Jews by the time of Jesus, who fulfilled God’s promise made to Abraham by completing His mission as Messiah or the Savior of all humanity who accept Him as Lord. This covenant is restated in GN 17:1-14, 18:18-19 & 22:15-18. Abraham is also claimed as the patriarch of the Arabs through Ishmael (GN 16:12, 17:19-21 & 21:9-21), who are part of the people who would be blessed by accepting God’s Messiah.
GN 15:6. Abraham’s faith in the Lord was credited to him as righteousness. This was a major theme of the teaching of the apostle Paul in his epistle to the Romans (RM 4:3,9-12&16-17). This is why Paul teaches that a true Jew is one whose “circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code” (RM 2:29). Thus, all who become one with Jesus are spiritual Jews and God’s chosen people (EPH 2:13-3:6), although it is possible that the political nation of Israel may play a further role in history before the eschaton.
GN 22:8. These words of Abraham to Isaac may be viewed as the first prophetic reference to Jesus (JN 1:29), although they had an immediate fulfillment (in v.13). Many years later, Moses instituted the sacrificial system that also portrayed the future messianic atonement. Jesus instituted the observance of the Lord’s Supper as a remembrance of the fact that His death fulfilled this system, so that Believers no longer need to practice it.
When Moses was called by God, he asked God to reveal His name, and God’s answer is our next key teaching.
EX 3:14. God is “I AM” or the source of our awareness of existence. Thousands of years later Rene Descartes (d.1650) became famous for saying, “cogito ergo sum” (“I think, therefore I am”), which expresses the fact that our own self-consciousness is the only truth that we know with certainty. Otherwise we walk by faith regarding ultimate reality and even scientific theories or assumptions and mathematical facts or axioms.
After Moses led the Exodus, he received the Ten Commandments from God, which for our purposes we will consider as one key teaching.
EX 20:1-17. God requires moral perfection (cf. DT 5:6-21). Of course each of the Ten Commandments is important, and Jesus affirmed many of them in the “Sermon on the Mount (MT 5:21-48). The key point is that all commandments teach us to cooperate with the Lawgiver, whose moral will was not ended or rescinded by the death of Messiah.
In an assembly, Paul would rather speak five words of intelligible speech than 10,000 words that were incomprehensible babble to other attendees. But Paul also thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than anyone.
1Co 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
That is how God revealed so much of His divine mystery and wisdom to Paul's spirit. It is very unwise to denigrate what could be the Holy Spirit's working in others simply because you do not understand the words they are using. To blaspheme means to impugn. God does not look favourably on those who impugn the Holy Spirit by mocking or slandering His work as fake.
I am uncomfortable with the following statement of your.
"which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40)"
Your quotation above includes the commandment in the law of Moses to love others.
Matthew 22:39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself'.
Now we have the new commandment that Jesus gave to the disciples.
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you,
that you also love one another.
There is an immense difference in the way you love others shown below.
Your way which is to love others as you love yourself.
Jesus said to love others the way He has loved us.
So which commandment will you choose; Matthew 22:39 or John 13:34?
Verse 19 makes me think verse 18 was tongue-in-cheek.
It is equally unwise to assume all babbling is bona-fide SIT.
I choose both. I certainly don't choose to think Jesus was saying NOT to obey Matt 22:37-39. Do you?!
Harmonizing Scripture is a gift not everyone has, but Paul shows how in Romans 5:5 & 8:1-14.
To gwh.
I'm sorry, your wrong again I LOVE PAUL and his writings. Why would you say I don't.
You and I have NOTHING to talk about UNLESS you stick with HIS word and keep YOUR OPPION OUT OF IT.
You are so puffed up with pride you can't do that.
If in the future you stick with HIS word and not,
In your opinion what Paul was thinking, or what Paul was thinking ETC.
I'm not here to debate people and their personal twist on HIS word.
Since you will not accept how to be reborn scriptures, which may be to late for you anyway you should consider these.
Matthew 12:31-32
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I'm sorry, your wrong again I LOVE PAUL and his writings. Why would you say I don't.
You and I have NOTHING to talk about UNLESS you stick with HIS word and keep YOUR OPPION OUT OF IT.
You are so puffed up with pride you can't do that.
If in the future you stick with HIS word and not,
In your opinion what Paul was thinking, or what Paul was thinking ETC.
I'm not here to debate people and their personal twist on HIS word.
Since you will not accept how to be reborn scriptures, which may be to late for you anyway you should consider these.
Matthew 12:31-32
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I checked post #194 and found nothing but you ranting and expressing your opinion,
and you declined to discuss key OT teachings in #195, so now I will try some history:
For most people, history is like a jigsaw puzzle, and just as putting the border pieces together first is a good strategy for making the rest of a puzzle easier to work, so also knowing the main events of history serves as a framework that makes learning how other events fit into the picture much easier.
The first peg in this timeline is the beginning of the universe (Creation/Alpha, the “Big Bang”, circa 14 billion years B.C., #1) and the last peg is its future ending or eschaton (Judgment, Omega/Zulu, then fade to dark, c. 20 trillion years A.D.?, #15). Alpha includes the formation of Earth (c. 4 billion years B.C.), because human history requires geography/space as well as chronology/time. The advent of Jesus of Nazareth traditionally has served in Western cultures as an important event by which to bisect the Alpha-Judgment timeline (Christ/Christianity, year “zero”), and this framework continues that practice.
Bisecting the timeline is subjective, but between Christ Jesus and Creation in the B.C. direction and Judgment in the A.D. direction, Moses’ founding of Judaism (circa 1200 B.C.) and the founding of Islam by Mohammed (610 A.D.) are chosen, because these religions have been such an influential part of the HOB.
Between Creation and Moses, the invention of writing (c. 4,000 B.C.) is worth remembering, since history depends on written records, and between Mohammed and Judgment, our lifetime (today, c. 2000+ A.D.) is cited, since history is meaningful to those who are living in it. Before writing, the appearance of oral language (c. 10,000 B.C.) is significant, because this is what writing was invented to record. We do not bisect the period between now and the end, although we expect humanity to continue its history of king of the hill (KOTH), and so we continue from this point in chronological order.
After Moses, Hinduism developed a doctrine of karma that viewed reincarnation as part of natural reality, then Buddha (Buddhism) reformed Hinduism (c. 520 B.C.), teaching that enlightenment and nirvana could be attained by means of right meditation rather than by worshipping gods. Both of these are major religions that should be included in a framework of beliefs. The appearance of atheist-humanism (c. 450 B.C.) in the writings of both Confucius (d. 480 B.C.) and Protagoras (d. 420 B.C.) should be selected, because this belief is the primary philosophical rival of theism, especially Abrahamic monotheism.
Next in this chronology is Hellenism or the Greek culture that included the nascence of science in the form of attempts to find natural explanations for phenomena and the basic elements. Hellenism included the schools of Plato and Aristotle (387 & 330 B.C.), which mark the establishment of formal education in history and other subjects. The campaign of conquest led by Alexander the Great (d. 323 B.C.) spread Greek culture, so that it greatly influenced all Western or Mediterranean cultures and beliefs.
After the Greeks, the Roman Empire (c. 60 B.C.) or Romanism dominated Western history for several centuries. After Jesus and the apostle Paul founded Christianity (c. 30-68) [all dates from this point are A.D.], Romanism was instrumental in establishing Roman Catholicism (RC) during the reign of Emperor Constantine following the Nicene Council (325), which evolved into a major religion (also known as “papalism”) rather different from primitive or New Testament Christianity.
The teachings of Augustine of Hippo (d. 430) were dominant in Roman and other heavily Catholic lands during a “dark age” in Western civilization that began when Germanic migrations ended the Roman Empire (in 476). Then militant Islam (c. 632) conquered Africa’s Mediterranean coast and Spain, where its advance was stopped by Charles Martel, founder of the Carolingian Empire (c. 732), which ushered in the culture of the medieval ages and the Holy Roman Empire. During this Dark Age, the eastern or oriental Mongol Kublai Khan (1260-1294) founded the largest empire in history, which served as the interface between the Orient and the West when Marco Polo made his famous journey. Then the plague or Black Death (c. 1347) killed almost half of the population of Europe.
The European or medieval Dark Age was ended by the Renaissance and Protestant Reformation (c. 1500), embodied by Leonardo da Vinci and Martin Luther. The Renaissance had two main contributing factors: 1. the printing press (c. 1450), because literacy opened the door of knowledge of the details of history and science to all classes of people, and 2. global exploration that was begun by the Portuguese around Africa and furthered by Spain’s expeditions across the Atlantic, beginning with Columbus in 1492 and climaxing with the circumnavigation of the globe by Magellan’s crew in 1524 (completing the loop that defined the extent of the world this history is relating). Protestantism was begun by Martin Luther when he nailed his famous 95 theses to a church door (in 1517). Lutheranism was soon followed by John Calvin’s affirmation of Augustinianism within Protestantism.
Protestants were persecuted by kings who cooperated with the Inquisition of the RC Popes. Global exploration began a period of European colonization, led by Spain, then dominated by England following its defeat of the Spanish Armada (1588), vying mainly with Holland and France for hegemony. The quest for freedom by the colonies climaxed with the founding of the United States of America (1776), which became the world’s greatest defender of freedom of faith or religious tolerance. Unfortunately, this was followed by an age of national totalitarianism, which might be deemed to have begun with Napoleon (d. 1821), climaxed with Hitler in World War II (1939-1945) and culminated with Marxist communism and Islamic terrorism.
Our framework concludes at this point, because the number of details that can logically be deemed significant to the history of beliefs for various reasons (including numerous inventions) begins to grow at an exponential rate, so that memorizing them might seem overwhelming for many of us. Below is a list of the memory pegs in our framework:
1. Creation, 2. language, 3. writing, 4. Judaism, 5. Hinduism/karmaism, 6. Buddhism, 7. Atheist-humanism, 8. Hellenism, 9. Romanism,
10. Christianity, 11. Roman Catholicism, 12. Dark Age, 13. Islam, 14. Mongol Orientalism, 15. Renaissance/Reformation, 16. Protestantism, 17. Colonization, 18. United States, 19. Totalitarianism, 20. Today, 21. Judgment
and you declined to discuss key OT teachings in #195, so now I will try some history:
For most people, history is like a jigsaw puzzle, and just as putting the border pieces together first is a good strategy for making the rest of a puzzle easier to work, so also knowing the main events of history serves as a framework that makes learning how other events fit into the picture much easier.
The first peg in this timeline is the beginning of the universe (Creation/Alpha, the “Big Bang”, circa 14 billion years B.C., #1) and the last peg is its future ending or eschaton (Judgment, Omega/Zulu, then fade to dark, c. 20 trillion years A.D.?, #15). Alpha includes the formation of Earth (c. 4 billion years B.C.), because human history requires geography/space as well as chronology/time. The advent of Jesus of Nazareth traditionally has served in Western cultures as an important event by which to bisect the Alpha-Judgment timeline (Christ/Christianity, year “zero”), and this framework continues that practice.
Bisecting the timeline is subjective, but between Christ Jesus and Creation in the B.C. direction and Judgment in the A.D. direction, Moses’ founding of Judaism (circa 1200 B.C.) and the founding of Islam by Mohammed (610 A.D.) are chosen, because these religions have been such an influential part of the HOB.
Between Creation and Moses, the invention of writing (c. 4,000 B.C.) is worth remembering, since history depends on written records, and between Mohammed and Judgment, our lifetime (today, c. 2000+ A.D.) is cited, since history is meaningful to those who are living in it. Before writing, the appearance of oral language (c. 10,000 B.C.) is significant, because this is what writing was invented to record. We do not bisect the period between now and the end, although we expect humanity to continue its history of king of the hill (KOTH), and so we continue from this point in chronological order.
After Moses, Hinduism developed a doctrine of karma that viewed reincarnation as part of natural reality, then Buddha (Buddhism) reformed Hinduism (c. 520 B.C.), teaching that enlightenment and nirvana could be attained by means of right meditation rather than by worshipping gods. Both of these are major religions that should be included in a framework of beliefs. The appearance of atheist-humanism (c. 450 B.C.) in the writings of both Confucius (d. 480 B.C.) and Protagoras (d. 420 B.C.) should be selected, because this belief is the primary philosophical rival of theism, especially Abrahamic monotheism.
Next in this chronology is Hellenism or the Greek culture that included the nascence of science in the form of attempts to find natural explanations for phenomena and the basic elements. Hellenism included the schools of Plato and Aristotle (387 & 330 B.C.), which mark the establishment of formal education in history and other subjects. The campaign of conquest led by Alexander the Great (d. 323 B.C.) spread Greek culture, so that it greatly influenced all Western or Mediterranean cultures and beliefs.
After the Greeks, the Roman Empire (c. 60 B.C.) or Romanism dominated Western history for several centuries. After Jesus and the apostle Paul founded Christianity (c. 30-68) [all dates from this point are A.D.], Romanism was instrumental in establishing Roman Catholicism (RC) during the reign of Emperor Constantine following the Nicene Council (325), which evolved into a major religion (also known as “papalism”) rather different from primitive or New Testament Christianity.
The teachings of Augustine of Hippo (d. 430) were dominant in Roman and other heavily Catholic lands during a “dark age” in Western civilization that began when Germanic migrations ended the Roman Empire (in 476). Then militant Islam (c. 632) conquered Africa’s Mediterranean coast and Spain, where its advance was stopped by Charles Martel, founder of the Carolingian Empire (c. 732), which ushered in the culture of the medieval ages and the Holy Roman Empire. During this Dark Age, the eastern or oriental Mongol Kublai Khan (1260-1294) founded the largest empire in history, which served as the interface between the Orient and the West when Marco Polo made his famous journey. Then the plague or Black Death (c. 1347) killed almost half of the population of Europe.
The European or medieval Dark Age was ended by the Renaissance and Protestant Reformation (c. 1500), embodied by Leonardo da Vinci and Martin Luther. The Renaissance had two main contributing factors: 1. the printing press (c. 1450), because literacy opened the door of knowledge of the details of history and science to all classes of people, and 2. global exploration that was begun by the Portuguese around Africa and furthered by Spain’s expeditions across the Atlantic, beginning with Columbus in 1492 and climaxing with the circumnavigation of the globe by Magellan’s crew in 1524 (completing the loop that defined the extent of the world this history is relating). Protestantism was begun by Martin Luther when he nailed his famous 95 theses to a church door (in 1517). Lutheranism was soon followed by John Calvin’s affirmation of Augustinianism within Protestantism.
Protestants were persecuted by kings who cooperated with the Inquisition of the RC Popes. Global exploration began a period of European colonization, led by Spain, then dominated by England following its defeat of the Spanish Armada (1588), vying mainly with Holland and France for hegemony. The quest for freedom by the colonies climaxed with the founding of the United States of America (1776), which became the world’s greatest defender of freedom of faith or religious tolerance. Unfortunately, this was followed by an age of national totalitarianism, which might be deemed to have begun with Napoleon (d. 1821), climaxed with Hitler in World War II (1939-1945) and culminated with Marxist communism and Islamic terrorism.
Our framework concludes at this point, because the number of details that can logically be deemed significant to the history of beliefs for various reasons (including numerous inventions) begins to grow at an exponential rate, so that memorizing them might seem overwhelming for many of us. Below is a list of the memory pegs in our framework:
1. Creation, 2. language, 3. writing, 4. Judaism, 5. Hinduism/karmaism, 6. Buddhism, 7. Atheist-humanism, 8. Hellenism, 9. Romanism,
10. Christianity, 11. Roman Catholicism, 12. Dark Age, 13. Islam, 14. Mongol Orientalism, 15. Renaissance/Reformation, 16. Protestantism, 17. Colonization, 18. United States, 19. Totalitarianism, 20. Today, 21. Judgment
Talk all you like, maybe you will find some to lead down the same path you are going.
One thing I have learned in life if a person is a perpetual liar you can not trust anything that comes out of his mouth.
How can you tell when they are lying? Their lips are moving.
You may have some real good points when it comes to HIS word, you for sure are not stupid but if you can't just blindly follow what JESUS says like a child, what good are you?
I have NO reason to listen to anything you say.
Paul never referenced tongues as "Babbling." However, he provided a very clear explanation in his letter to the Corinthian church of when, where and for what purpose manifesting tongues is appropriate.
Paul pointed out that personal communication with God via tongues edifies the individual. As such, it is not beneficial to others to communicate Spirit to spirit with God in a church setting. However, God does at times bring forth a message for the congregation through the Spiritual gifts of tongues and interpretation.
Note Paul's point recorded in verses 16 and 17 below, it leaves is no room for opinion/speculation. Those who give thanks in tongues do in fact give thanks well. This proves that speaking directly to God in an unknown language is not mere babbling. It is imperative to choose to take God at His Word and not rely on one's own opinion. As Paul indicated he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than others. Why? Those who give God direct access to their spirit know the answer. The experience causes their personal relationship with God to grow each and every day. As Jesus stated, the Father will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) Consider Jesus' words reveal that the Holy Spirit is not received the moment a person believes...Those who will humble themselves and ask, will receive.
1 Cor 14:16-19
14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."
You actually read my post? That's progress!
I understand you interpret GW as indicating the earth is about 6.000 years old.
I also understand that you have only one goal on CC, which is to share your opinion regarding WB.
My goal is both to witness for God/Christ (Apologetics and the Kerygma) and to discuss biblical doctrines
that build on the Gospel foundation, such as what I share in the lesson on ecumenical monotheism:
Christianity is God’s bridge uniting monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) rather than a wall separating them. This truth is derived from a statement by the apostle Paul (in 1TM 2:3-4) indicating that Yahweh/God/Allah loves all people and wants everyone to love each other as one happy spiritual family or fellowship, and He is grieved when people who claim to believe in Him quarrel (Ephesians 4:30-31).
When Judaism was reformed by Jesus and his apostles, Paul taught (in RM 2:28-29, 4:16-17 & GL 3:29) that what matters is not the religion of our parents, but whether each of us has faith like Abraham in the one true God. A spiritual Jew loves God (DT 6:4-5), a true Christian loves God and humanity (MT 22:37-40), and a genuine Muslim serves God by cooperating with His plan of salvation (MT 24:45 & 25:21). Theists can be Jewish, Christian and Muslim, because Christianity is God’s solution/plan for peace in the world (EPH 2:11-22).
The purpose of Judaism was to provide the heritage for Messiah for the benefit of all people (RM 3:21-31, 9:4-5a, IS 42:1-6, GN 22:18, DT 9:5-6), and the intent of Islam (stated by the Qur’an in Surah 2:89) was “confirming” God’s previous revelations to the Jews and Christians (the OT & NT). When Jews became Messianic, Paul and Peter agreed that they could follow the old Jewish customs that did not contradict faith in Jesus as Lord (ACTS 15:5-29 & GL 2:15-16). Because everything good and true is from God (JM 1:27), accepting Jesus as Messiah does not mean rejecting what is good and true in one’s pre-Christian experience or culture.
However, the relationship between Jesus, Moses and Mohammed needs to be harmonized. Paul wrote (in 1TM 2:5): “For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ [Messiah] Jesus.” This verse clearly indicates that the Christian concept known as the Trinity should not be understood as contradicting faith in one God. Similarly, calling Messiah “God’s Son” should not be understood as contradicting the humanity of Jesus (HB 2:17), the one God ordained to die unjustly as payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity. God relates to humanity in three primary ways: as the Creator or Father over all, as the Holy Spirit (cf. Surah 2:87) within believers, and as the human Messiah/Jesus with humanity (Immanuel in MT 1:23).
Thus, Muslims–like Jews–may accept Jesus as Messiah with the understanding that the Mosaic laws Islamic five pillars do not contradict the Christian gospel of salvation. In the OT God established a covenant with Abraham (GN 15:18, 17:2) by which “all nations on earth will be blessed” (GN 8:18), Jeremiah revealed that the Mosaic covenant would be superseded by a new covenant (JR31:31, cf. HB 7:18-10:1), and Isaiah associated the new covenant with Messiah, “my chosen one”, who would also be “a light for the Gentiles” (IS 42:1,6&9, 49:5-6&8, 59:20-60:3, 61:1 & 62:2&11).
God’s “chosen people” potentially includes everyone in the world who satisfies His requirement for salvation by seeking truth and finding Messiah (EPH 2:11-3:6, RM 10:1-11:32). [Whether or not the physical nation of Israel will play some political role before the end/eschaton is another issue.]
In EPH 3:1-6, note that world peace through the gospel of Christ was a “mystery” until Paul received a divine revelation. As Paul wrote in 1CR 2:7-8, “We speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” Thus, although with hindsight we can see how Old Testament scriptures foreshadowed Christ, we should not expect that they specifically prophesied the Gospel (although Isaiah 53 is quite impressive).
In summary, the evidence of accepting God’s will and cooperating with Him is accepting Jesus as Messiah/Lord and manifesting love for everyone including enemies, which is the opposite of that held by those claiming to believe in God/Allah who are grieving Him by terrorizing humanity.