Does Jesus save those who received grace and are without obedience to the faith?

[Solitude]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No, of course not

 

[Ceph]

Matthew 18:
Jesus called a little child to himself, and set him in the middle of them and said, “Most certainly I tell you, unless you turn and become as little children, you will in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever therefore humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever receives one such little child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if a huge millstone were hung around his neck and that he were sunk in the depths of the sea.
“Woe to the world because of occasions of stumbling! For it must be that the occasions come, but woe to that person through whom the occasion comes! If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the eternal fire. If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire. See that you don’t despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. For the Son of Man came to save that which was lost.
“What do you think? If a man has one hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine, go to the mountains, and seek that which has gone astray? If he finds it, most certainly I tell you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“If your brother sins against you, go, show him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained back your brother. But if he doesn’t listen, take one or two more with you, that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly. If he refuses to hear the assembly also, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector. Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven. Again, assuredly I tell you, that if two of you will agree on earth concerning anything that they will ask, it will be done for them by my Father who is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the middle of them.”
Then Peter came and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Until seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I don’t tell you until seven times, but, until seventy times seven. Therefore the Kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. When he had begun to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. But because he couldn’t pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, with his wife, his children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will repay you all!’ The lord of that servant, being moved with compassion, released him and forgave him the debt.
“But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him one hundred denarii, and he grabbed him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’
“So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will repay you!’ 30 He would not, but went and cast him into prison until he should pay back that which was due. So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were exceedingly sorry, and came and told their lord all that was done. Then his lord called him in and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Shouldn’t you also have had mercy on your fellow servant, even as I had mercy on you?’ His lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors until he should pay all that was due to him. So my heavenly Father will also do to you, if you don’t each forgive your brother from your hearts for his misdeeds.”

 

[Inquisitor]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

How would you describe a Christian as far as the N.T. is concerned?

 

[Soyeong]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation.

So the question was.

Does Jesus save those who received grace and are without obedience to the faith?

Your not answering the question.

 

[GaryA]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

The meaning of the first word 'for' in verse 5 is in the sense of "for the purpose of" - it is not depicting/describing/indicating what requirement must be met to obtain grace and apostleship.

 

[Daisy2]

My mom thinks that most modern Christians, for the most part, have gone the way of Jonah and have to be stubbornly led back to where they were originally told to go. Basically, if God wants you to do something, He will tell you. She feels that it doesn’t make sense to share the right way with someone if they are not willing to listen.

 

[Soyeong]

So the question was.

Does Jesus save those who received grace and are without obedience to the faith?

Your not answering the question.

The verses that I quoted showed that our salvation involves being trained by grace to obey God's law, so can someone be considered to have received God's grace apart from being trained by grace to obey it? If someone refuses to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, then are they being trained by grace to do those things?

 

[Solitude]

How would you describe a Christian as far as the N.T. is concerned?

A New Testament Christian is one who received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith and then chose obedience to the faith.

 

[JohnRH]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

I think the grace in that verse is the grace for an already-saved person to spread the gospel. The 'obedience to the faith' is what other people do to become saved.

 

[Solitude]

I think the grace in that verse is the grace for an already-saved person to spread the gospel. The 'obedience to the faith' is what other people do to become saved.

2 Corinthians 6:1
Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.

 

[Inquisitor]

A New Testament Christian is one who received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith and then chose obedience to the faith.

Very good reply.

1 Peter 1:22
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love
one another from the heart.

God is love!

It's not too difficult to understand the New Testament.

 

[GWH]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

Obviously not, although there are some who deny that God's grace/forgiveness is conditional upon repentance/faith in Jesus as Lord (John 3:16, Matt. 7:20, Eph. 2:8-9, Acts 16:30-31, etc.), which means wanting to allow God's Holy Spirit to love everyone more and more (Rom. 5:5, Eph. 3:16-19, John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21, etc.) as we grow toward spiritual maturity/moral perfection (Phil. 3:12-16, Eph. 4:11-24).

 

[p_rehbein]

A New Testament Christian is one who received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith and then chose obedience to the faith.

What Church taught you this definition? A Christian is a person who repents and asks Jesus into their lives as Lord and Savior. Study John 3:16. Your definition appears to say that "works" are necessary for one to be a Christian. One does not receive "apostleship" for obedience to the Commandments of God/Jesus.

Apostleship refers to the office and mission of an apostle, derived from the Greek word "apostolos," meaning "one who is sent."
Definition and Role
Apostleship is a significant concept in the New Testament, representing the role of individuals chosen and commissioned by Jesus Christ to spread the Gospel and establish the early Christian Church. The original Twelve Apostles, including Peter, John, and James, were selected by Jesus to be His closest followers and witnesses to His resurrection. Their primary responsibilities included preaching the Gospel, teaching doctrine, performing miracles, and nurturing the spiritual growth of believers

 

[Karlon]

absolutely not whether it's past, present or future!!!

 

[Solitude]

What Church taught you this definition? A Christian is a person who repents and asks Jesus into their lives as Lord and Savior. Study John 3:16. Your definition appears to say that "works" are necessary for one to be a Christian. One does not receive "apostleship" for obedience to the Commandments of God/Jesus.

Apostleship refers to the office and mission of an apostle, derived from the Greek word "apostolos," meaning "one who is sent."
Definition and Role
Apostleship is a significant concept in the New Testament, representing the role of individuals chosen and commissioned by Jesus Christ to spread the Gospel and establish the early Christian Church. The original Twelve Apostles, including Peter, John, and James, were selected by Jesus to be His closest followers and witnesses to His resurrection. Their primary responsibilities included preaching the Gospel, teaching doctrine, performing miracles, and nurturing the spiritual growth of believers

The Bible taught me this definition.

Roman 1:4-6

4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

 

[tablet123]

Roman 1:4-6
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith which faith works by love.

Grace is given through faith.

If we lack love then faith is void in our life, and if we lack faith then grace is void in our life.

Grace is available to the world but if we are not obedient to faith how can we be given grace.

Love is greater than faith for love obeys God's commandments.

Preaches the truth of God's word to people.

Helps the poor and needy and helps people that has a need.

Love benefits people helping to bring them to salvation and caring for their needs.

Which love works no ill towards their neighbor therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Faith only benefits us and does not apply to another person.

So love is greater than faith.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

If you do not have love then faith is no good to be given grace.

Just like people are not saved who do not accept the truth we are not saved if we are disobedient to faith.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people have a form of godliness but they never come to the truth and lack faith.

 

[homwardbound]

How can one, anyone refuse, once believe God has done what God has done for us through Son. having no more work to get in Eph 2, it is God's gift. Yet prior to seeing Ephesians, the entire epistle, it starts out to believe God in risen Son for you personally, to be taught new in this love and mercy for us all through Son Jesus, the only mediator between God and people.
Eph 1:13, seals one between God and them personally, anyone who decides to believe God over self and everyone else. God Father reveals it.
We get to see new and learn new from God for us, not anymore against anyone as has been thought by many from the first testament. Which in truth has not ever been the case ever. Just misinterpreted, by people in general.
The flesh is dead, and has been that ever since the first Adam, who in unbelief failed and ate from that tree that brought death to all flesh.
Now in the rise Son, Jesus the Christ that curse of Adam the first is now reversed and new life is offered for us all to believe, stand in and learn new from mistakes we all have made and might make again
Phil 3:1-20, has much depth in there as only Father in Spirit snd Truth can reveal to each person personally and one, anyone to see and love all in mercy and truth too, thank you Lord
Yes, includes all that have done us wrong also, thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

 

[Solitude]

How can one, anyone refuse, once believe God has done what God has done for us through Son. having no more work to get in Eph 2, it is God's gift. Yet prior to seeing Ephesians, the entire epistle, it starts out to believe God in risen Son for you personally, to be taught new in this love and mercy for us all through Son Jesus, the only mediator between God and people.
Eph 1:13, seals one between God and them personally, anyone who decides to believe God over self and everyone else. God Father reveals it.
We get to see new and learn new from God for us, not anymore against anyone as has been thought by many from the first testament. Which in truth has not ever been the case ever. Just misinterpreted, by people in general.
The flesh is dead, and has been that ever since the first Adam, who in unbelief failed and ate from that tree that brought death to all flesh.
Now in the rise Son, Jesus the Christ that curse of Adam the first is now reversed and new life is offered for us all to believe, stand in and learn new from mistakes we all have made and might make again
Phil 3:1-20, has much depth in there as only Father in Spirit snd Truth can reveal to each person personally and one, anyone to see and love all in mercy and truth too, thank you Lord
Yes, includes all that have done us wrong also, thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

They won alright; those who received grace and died without obedience to the faith went to the devil.