How many times can those of dead faith choose to accept Jesus and be saved?

[Wansvic]

You guys like to say sins need to be washed away. But that is just a picture of the reality. If our sins are not to be counted against us, they must be forgiven. Sins earn us death. And God is the Judge, Jury, and Executioner. He decides who gets punished for their sins and who He saves from His wrath. Scripture is clear that there is only one way to avoid the eternal damnation that we earn by sinning. And that way is by trusting Jesus for the forgiveness that He earned for us on the cross...

• For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)
• 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jn 3:14–18)
• 28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (Jn 6:28–29)
• 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (Jn 5:39–40)

And I could probably find a hundred more verses that speak of salvation being through faith in Christ and not through baptism.

Those who trust in Jesus believe and obey what's revealed in His word.

Think about what you said, and I quote, "You guys like to say sins need to be washed away." When in fact, the guy who actually said that was Ananias. A prophet sent directly by God to tell Paul what he MUST DO.

"And he (Saul/Paul) trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." Acts 9:6

Ananias made it clear that Paul was to know God's will
"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16


Everyone has to make the choice whether or not to accept what God's word actually reveals. Proof that water baptism is necessary for all those living in the NT is recorded for all to see. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[GWH]

How many times can those of dead faith choose to accept Jesus and be saved?

Once per Hebrews 6:4-6.
Next question?

 

[Ouch]

Those who trust in Jesus believe and obey what's revealed in His word.

Think about what you said, and I quote, "You guys like to say sins need to be washed away." When in fact, the guy who actually said that was Ananias. A prophet sent directly by God to tell Paul what he MUST DO.

"And he (Saul/Paul) trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." Acts 9:6

Ananias made it clear that Paul was to know God's will
"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16


Everyone has to make the choice whether or not to accept what God's word actually reveals. Proof that water baptism is necessary for all those living in the NT is recorded for all to see. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Thank you for sharing, looks like being @NewLifeInChrist saying "YOU GUYS" puts us in good company.

Which make US CHRIST LIKE.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Those who trust in Jesus believe and obey what's revealed in His word.

Think about what you said, and I quote, "You guys like to say sins need to be washed away." When in fact, the guy who actually said that was Ananias. A prophet sent directly by God to tell Paul what he MUST DO.

"And he (Saul/Paul) trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." Acts 9:6

Ananias made it clear that Paul was to know God's will
"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16


Everyone has to make the choice whether or not to accept what God's word actually reveals. Proof that water baptism is necessary for all those living in the NT is recorded for all to see. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Acts 22:16​

​

Be baptized (βαπτισαι [baptisai]). First aorist middle (causative), not passive, Get thyself baptized (Robertson, Grammar, p. 808). Cf. 1 Cor. 10:2. Submit yourself to baptism. So as to ἀπολουσαι [apolousai], Get washed off as in 1 Cor. 6:11. It is possible, as in 2:38, to take these words as teaching baptismal remission or salvation by means of baptism, but to do so is in my opinion a complete subversion of Paul’s vivid and picturesque language. As in Rom. 6:4–6 where baptism is the picture of death, burial and resurrection, so here baptism pictures the change that had already taken place when Paul surrendered to Jesus on the way (verse 10). Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. [Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Ac 22:16). Broadman Press.]​

I think the choice is to believe or not believe the testimony of the Holy Spirit as He guides us into all truth. Thinking baptism has the power to take away sins is like thinking that eating with unwashed hands makes the soul dirty (Matt 15:16-20). Baptism is simply a picture of the real thing. It does not have salvific powers.

There are many things that are true for a person only if Jesus is residing in that person's heart. If Jesus is not in there, none of these things are true for him.

1. We are one with the Father and the Son (Jn 17:22),
2. We are in Him and He is in us (Jn 17:23),
3. We are joined to the Lord and are one Spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17),
4. We have eternal life because life is in Jesus and Jesus is in us (1 Jn 5:11–12),
5. We shall not come into judgement because we have passed from death into life (Jn 5:24),
6. With an unveiled face, we behold the glory of the Lord and are transformed into the same image (2 Co 3:18),
7. We who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan within ourselves, and eagerly await our adoption (Ro 8:23),
8. We earnestly desire clothing from above and have the Spirit as a guarantee (2 Co 5:1–5),
9. We have the mind of Christ (1 Co 2:16),
10. We have come to know Him because He lives in our hearts (Jn 14:19-23),
11. He will never leave us or forsake us (Heb 13:5), and
12. We are partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4).

This is not a complete list. But of particular interest for this discussion are numbers 4 and 5. When Jesus comes to live in our hearts He gives us life, and one result of that is that we will not come into judgement.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn 5:24)​

It is clear from this passage that baptism is not a required element of avoiding judgement because 1) it is not mentioned, and 2) passing from death into life is cited as the reason for not comming under judgement.

As a result of this, the story of Cornelius, who received Jesus into his heart and passed from death into life and escaped judgement in Acts 10:44 and who was later baptized in Acts 10:48 proves that regeneration is not dependent on baptism.

 

[Ouch]

Acts 22:16​

​

Be baptized (βαπτισαι [baptisai]). First aorist middle (causative), not passive, Get thyself baptized (Robertson, Grammar, p. 808). Cf. 1 Cor. 10:2. Submit yourself to baptism. So as to ἀπολουσαι [apolousai], Get washed off as in 1 Cor. 6:11. It is possible, as in 2:38, to take these words as teaching baptismal remission or salvation by means of baptism, but to do so is in my opinion a complete subversion of Paul’s vivid and picturesque language. As in Rom. 6:4–6 where baptism is the picture of death, burial and resurrection, so here baptism pictures the change that had already taken place when Paul surrendered to Jesus on the way (verse 10). Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. [Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Ac 22:16). Broadman Press.]​

I think the choice is to believe or not believe the testimony of the Holy Spirit as He guides us into all truth. Thinking baptism has the power to take away sins is like thinking that eating with unwashed hands makes the soul dirty (Matt 15:16-20). Baptism is simply a picture of the real thing. It does not have salvific powers.

There are many things that are true for a person only if Jesus is residing in that person's heart. If Jesus is not in there, none of these things are true for him.

1. We are one with the Father and the Son (Jn 17:22),
2. We are in Him and He is in us (Jn 17:23),
3. We are joined to the Lord and are one Spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17),
4. We have eternal life because life is in Jesus and Jesus is in us (1 Jn 5:11–12),
5. We shall not come into judgement because we have passed from death into life (Jn 5:24),
6. With an unveiled face, we behold the glory of the Lord and are transformed into the same image (2 Co 3:18),
7. We who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan within ourselves, and eagerly await our adoption (Ro 8:23),
8. We earnestly desire clothing from above and have the Spirit as a guarantee (2 Co 5:1–5),
9. We have the mind of Christ (1 Co 2:16),
10. We have come to know Him because He lives in our hearts (Jn 14:19-23),
11. He will never leave us or forsake us (Heb 13:5), and
12. We are partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4).

This is not a complete list. But of particular interest for this discussion are numbers 4 and 5. When Jesus comes to live in our hearts He gives us life, and one result of that is that we will not come into judgement.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn 5:24)​

It is clear from this passage that baptism is not a required element of avoiding judgement because 1) it is not mentioned, and 2) passing from death into life is cited as the reason for not comming under judgement.

As a result of this, the story of Cornelius, who received Jesus into his heart and passed from death into life and escaped judgement in Acts 10:44 and who was later baptized in Acts 10:48 proves that regeneration is not dependent on baptism.

I'm just in the seed business, Please consider since you can't answer my question.

"Can you tell me EXACTLY how we get rid of our sins"

No issue I knew you couldn't, it's not in HIS word.

If you think you are being led by the Holy Ghost are you sure JESUS filled you?

Examples of JESUS filling people.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Peter says what happens when we are filled.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Peter says what happens when we are filled.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

If you haven't been filled, how could JESUS be leading you?

 

[Wansvic]

...Thinking baptism has the power to take away sins is like thinking that eating with unwashed hands makes the soul dirty (Matt 15:16-20). ....

Those who accept scripture don't think baptism takes away sin, they know it does. How do they know it? Because God said so.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. " John 12:48

 

[Wansvic]

You guys like to say sins need to be washed away. But that is just a picture of the reality. If our sins are not to be counted against us, they must be forgiven. Sins earn us death. And God is the Judge, Jury, and Executioner. He decides who gets punished for their sins and who He saves from His wrath. Scripture is clear that there is only one way to avoid the eternal damnation that we earn by sinning. And that way is by trusting Jesus for the forgiveness that He earned for us on the cross...

• For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)
• 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jn 3:14–18)
• 28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (Jn 6:28–29)
• 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (Jn 5:39–40)

And I could probably find a hundred more verses that speak of salvation being through faith in Christ and not through baptism.

In addition to the guy in my response to your comment about" you guys" (post 181), there's other guys as well that say the same thing.
"Think about what you said, and I quote, "You guys like to say sins need to be washed away." When in fact, the guy who actually said that was Ananias. A prophet sent directly by God to tell Paul what he MUST DO." (Acts 9:6. 22:16)

John the Baptist said it. (Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5)
Peter said it. (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21)
Paul said it. (Rom. 6:3-6, Col. 2:12-14)

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

In addition to the guy in my response to your comment about" you guys" (post 181), there's other guys as well that say the same thing.
"Think about what you said, and I quote, "You guys like to say sins need to be washed away." When in fact, the guy who actually said that was Ananias. A prophet sent directly by God to tell Paul what he MUST DO." (Acts 9:6. 22:16)

John the Baptist said it. (Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5)
Peter said it. (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21)
Paul said it. (Rom. 6:3-6, Col. 2:12-14)

So, it is a metaphor for sins being forgiven. Sins can't be washed away. But you guys take it literally to mean that baptismal waters literally wash away sins. And the metaphor is an accurate metaphor only if a person who was saved by faith in Christ beforehand is later baptized (like Cornelias). That's why it is called believer's baptism.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

How many times can those of dead faith choose to accept Jesus and be saved?

No times. "Dead Faith" isn't FAITH at all. In salvation, GOD MOVES FIRST - giving CONVICTION OF SIN to the person, who them by their own FREE WILL either decides to surrender, repent and cry out in REAL FAITH for salvation. Rom 10:17 reveals the SOURCE of FAITH, and Heb 11:1 reveals it's attributes,

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Those who accept scripture don't think baptism takes away sin, they know it does. How do they know it? Because God said so.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. " John 12:48

Those who accept Scripture don't look to baptism as the means to forgiveness. They look to Jesus. Because Jesus said so. And the Father said so. And the Spirit said so. And John the Baptist said so. And the prophets said so. And the apostles said so.

 

[Wansvic]

So, it is a metaphor for sins being forgiven. Sins can't be washed away. But you guys take it literally to mean that baptismal waters literally wash away sins. And the metaphor is an accurate metaphor only if a person who was saved by faith in Christ beforehand is later baptized (like Cornelias). That's why it is called believer's baptism.

Obedience to the command results in what God says it does. The actual water has nothing to do with it.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Obedience to the command results in what God says it does. The actual water has nothing to do with it.

What happens when a passage of Scripture is misunderstood and people teach others that they must submit to the false interpretation in order to be saved?

 

[Wansvic]

What happens when a passage of Scripture is misunderstood and people teach others that they must submit to the false interpretation in order to be saved?

Obeying the word of God is always the right thing to both do and share with others.. As I said previously, everyone is responsible to make their own choice whether to accept or reject what is clearly revealed.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Obeying the word of God is always the right thing to both do and share with others.. As I said previously, everyone is responsible to make their own choice whether to accept or reject what is clearly revealed.

The basic concept of Christianity is that God laid on Jesus the iniquities of us all (Isa 53:6), that He took those sins with Him to the cross (Mk 15:34), that by the Spirit He offered His own blood in Heaven to the Father as an acceptable sacrifice for our sins (Heb 9:14), and that believing in Him is our only escape from condemnation and our only entrance into eternal life (Jn 3:14-15). Believing that baptism washes away sins (or believing that obeying a commandment to be baptized washes away sins) is to insert between God and man a false god and makes that false god the object of one's faith. This is what concerns me about your doctrine.

 

[Wansvic]

The basic concept of Christianity is that God laid on Jesus the iniquities of us all (Isa 53:6), that He took those sins with Him to the cross (Mk 15:34), that by the Spirit He offered His own blood in Heaven to the Father as an acceptable sacrifice for our sins (Heb 9:14), and that believing in Him is our only escape from condemnation and our only entrance into eternal life (Jn 3:14-15). Believing that baptism washes away sins (or believing that obeying a commandment to be baptized washes away sins) is to insert between God and man a false god and makes that false god the object of one's faith. This is what concerns me about your doctrine.

You are wrong.

It was God who established the necessity of water baptism for remission of sin. Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for the sin of all mankind. However, not all will take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Those who believe and obey God receive what He promised.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

You are wrong.

It was God who established the necessity of water baptism for remission of sin. Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for the sin of all mankind. However, not all will take hold of what Jesus died to provide. Those who believe and obey God receive what He promised.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32

Water baptism is not a necesity. The thief on the cross is one prime example. Cornelius is another example. The Ethiopian eunuch is another. And there are plenty more. And if God had established water Baptism as being necessary for Him to forgive people's sins, then He would not have left out baptism in perhaps hundreds of NT references to salvation being dependent on believing in Jesus. I have already posted several examples, but here are two more:

• For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)
  
  
• 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? (Ro 10:13–15)

 

[Dino246]

What happens when a passage of Scripture is misunderstood and people teach others that they must submit to the false interpretation in order to be saved?

You get a multitude of threads on the subject here in the Bicker and Debate forum.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

You get a multitude of threads on the subject here in the Bicker and Debate forum.

I guess you're right. I picked this one because of the survey question. It has devolved into a discussion of baptism, which I generally avoid.