1 John 2:19

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wattie said:
Wider context:

1 John 2:18-23 KJV - 8 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

This is about antichrist belief of those who went out from them..

Who denies the Son and hath not the Father.

On first look it's of those who never believed.
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Antichrist means instead-of-Christ. Anyone who proposes a means of knowing God that is not through Christ Jesus our Lord is an antichrist.

It sounds like some joined the church but believing the idea that Jesus Christ was one of many different esoteric teachers who could teach how to enter God-consciousness, and were trying to sell Jesus' methods as merely a re-telling of many other proposed methods. Or perhaps they began relying fully on Jesus, but became persuaded that He was really just one of many teachers of ways to know God, and began to focus on the doctrine instead of the Doctor. When the Jesus-followers refused to trust in the method only, independently of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the frustrated gnostics left to find more gullible audiences. They were not of us means they were not of those who have Jesus Christ as the only way to know communion with God. If they had been of us, relying on Jesus first as the ony way, they would have felt no need to leave out narrow-minded community
 
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭19‬, ‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

They were never of us!
 
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TruthDefender said:
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭19‬, ‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

They were never of us!
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That’s disturbing
 
Lafftur said:
Hey everyone-

Just because someone is quoting scripture at you doesn’t mean they’re right…

remember, Satan used scripture when he tried to tempt Jesus Christ in the desert. Satan twisted scripture trying to convince Jesus to doubt He is the Son of God.

Do NOT doubt your salvation in Jesus Christ. Hold fast to your faith, knowing you are saved!

The Holy Spirit will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved. :love:(y)
Click to expand...

Unless you’ve been disqualified!
 
Lafftur said:
It is a very important issue to believe and know you are saved.

The Holy Spirit will bear witness with your spirit… if anyone doubts then, ask the Holy Spirit for the Truth of your current spiritual condition… ask in humility and desiring the Truth.

It’s never a surprise if I am operating in my flesh… that I don’t want to go to church or read my Bible… the flesh is always wanting to leave the faith because it is contrary to God…. but, my spirit man greatly desires God and never wants to leave Him.

We have to grow up in our faith in Christ which we do with God’s Word and Holy Spirit.

Your Post #5 gives various situations how our flesh is wrestling with our spirit man to stay or to go…

Stay with Jesus Christ no matter what!!!
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Galatians 5:17
For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition
to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
 
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TruthDefender said:
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭19‬, ‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

They were never of us!
Click to expand...
I don't see the word "never" in that text. You eyesight might be better than mine. Could you please highlight the word "never", so I can see it too?
 
TruthDefender said:
None of us are witnesses to what happened during Jesus’ time so this means we walk by faith.
Click to expand...

Faith is an absolute rock solid knowing of a spiritual truth given to the person by the Father and the understanding given by the Holy Spirit… faith has nothing to do with being an eyewitness or hoping or even trusting… it’s a knowing.
 
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wattie said:
Wider context:

1 John 2:18-23 KJV - 8 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

This is about antichrist belief of those who went out from them..

Who denies the Son and hath not the Father.

On first look it's of those who never believed.
Click to expand...

I see that now… it is true that those with the antichrist spirit were never saved.

Thank you!
 
TruthDefender said:
“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭19‬, ‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

They were never of us!
Click to expand...

I see that now… it is true that those with the antichrist spirit were never saved.

Thank you!
 
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Winslow89 said:
To @PaulThomson, when people who claim to saved abandon Christ, a lot of people will say they were never saved in the first place. I believe that’s what @TruthDefender is meaning.
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I am somewhat interested in what "many people" say, or even what one person says. But if what they say is not what the Bible seems to say, I find them unpersuasive. @TruthDefender cited some verses and asserted that those verses said those who left never were of us. But that is not what those verses actually say.
 
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Edify said:
You simply don't understand, or don't care, that your straining at a gnat leaves you swallowing camels. Your pursuit is futile, useless. That make's you on the wrong side. It doesn't edify, it tears down.
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When people don't like the words in scripture they'll tell you they don't really mean what they say.
 
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PaulThomson said:
I don't see the word "never" in that text. You eyesight might be better than mine. Could you please highlight the word "never", so I can see it too?
Click to expand...
I don't understand your objection to him summarizing the whole verse by saying they NEVER were of us.

The whole passage makes clear they weren't saved. Never were. BECAUSE, if they had been, they would have remained in the faith.

I don't get what's not to understand here.
 
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I think the point is some believe a christian can backslide. At first they did well, then fell away and became antichrist. Then they went out from us.
They could have been both backsliders or never saved to begin with.
Is that what you're saying?
 
Edify said:
I think the point is some believe a christian can backslide. At first they did well, then fell away and became antichrist. Then they went out from us.
They could have been both backsliders or never saved to begin with.
Is that what you're saying?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure you are addressing me, but if so, I'm saying the passage unambiguously says they were NOT saved to begin with.

My understanding of "backsliding" is a Christian that stumbles in sin AFTER becoming born again.

In that case, if they are truly born again, God WILL discipline them. Just like ANY father would.
It may even entail a loss of eternal rewards and position. But it will NOT result in lost Salvation.

And the proof that they WERE saved is that after the discipline, they REMAIN in the faith. (see the guy that slept with his mom as an example). I think that is different from the person that had a superficial (head knowledge) belief or experience, and then no longer believes Jesus is who He says He is, and did what He says He did.

That is also different from someone who may have doubts. We're talking about people that had a final rejection of Christ.
 
PennEd said:
That is also different from someone who may have doubts. We're talking about people that had a final rejection of Christ.
Click to expand...

If John was describing people who believed like the Valentinian gnostics believed, they didn't reject Christ; they rejected the narrow way into Christ. They thought they were the enlightened Christians, who rejected the necessity of doing good works because they were spiritual by nature and consequently could never be lost.
 
Edify said:
I think the point is some believe a christian can backslide. At first they did well, then fell away and became antichrist. Then they went out from us.
They could have been both backsliders or never saved to begin with.
Is that what you're saying?
Click to expand...
Yes. the text itself does not indicate whether they had fallen away from the faith and then left, or had never truly believed.
 
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