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Some people won't admit that the scriptures could be saying something other than what they were taught to see, no matter how well you reason with them. And some people will never admit that the scriptures could be saying something other than what they were taught to see, no matter how well you reason with them.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
I’m not adding a scenario, you are! What do the verses say? I go by the verses.
I don’t believe that they ever had the spirit of God, if they did they would’ve continued with us. These are deceivers not just someone who becomes weak and falls away; their very purpose was to deceive….
-"For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
II John 1:7 NKJV
-“and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.”
I John 4:3 NKJV
-""Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."
Matthew 24:23-24 NKJV
-"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Revelation 20:7-10 NKJV
What if they believed, but as time progressed they believed that "knowing God" was more important than obeying God? And so they developed the attitude that the other Christians around them weren't enlightened like them because they were so focused on living righteously rather than on spiritual things. So they got fed up being around what they considered to be carnal and worldly Christians and left
I was not dresseswhen I came out of the shower. Would tou infer that I was never ever dressed?
T
TruthDefender
Guest
It doesn’t sound like we’re discussing antichrists!? Too many scenarios, and it kind of goes against what I’m reading in Scripture.
I just take it the way it’s read instead of twisting it to manufacture something. Idk, who am I…..
It comes down to a simple TEST, they either pass, or fail. Simple
They went out from us, but they were not of us...
They were once saved in Christ but eventually denied the Christ.
In the end it is true they were not of us.
Did the Lord let them go?
Of course not.
You have been told in the N.T not to love the world, not to love money.
Do not live according to your passions and desires.
Any Christian who lives in the flesh will die eventually.
Paul said to not be deceived; do not sow to the flesh.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
It doesn’t really seem they ever had the Spirit of Christ since they came from Satan!! Their primary objective was to go out and deceive everyone, even some of the elect.:
Part happened, and part remains to happen—-
-"Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Revelation 20:7-10 NKJV
Have you read that Christians are not to follow their passions and desires (the flesh)?
You have been told in the N.T not to love the world, not to love money.
Do you agree with this?
Here is an example.
Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
W
Winslow89
Guest
Gal. 5:4 is pretty clear. In order to be severed from something or someone, you’d first have to be part of it. If I sever my arm from my body, my arm was once a part of me otherwise I’d not be able to sever it. No one would say my arm was never part of my body. And due to it being severed, it has fallen from where it once was.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
The gnostics were antichrists. They denied that Jesus came in the flesh. That was a key tenet of their beliefs
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Idk if they were, but if so, then yes. They don’t have the Spirit of God then.
W
Winslow89
Guest
Question: Is it possible these individuals had once been saved, but over time they developed the beliefs they held which manifested in them not being of the saved anymore?
Of course. That is why we are told to watch and guard the truth carefully
W
Winslow89
Guest
The only verse I know of that has the word “never” in regards to one’s soul salvation is Matthew 7:23
“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Why do you keep pushing this scenario? Can you not differentiate between wolves and the fallen away?
I read that as like when a spouse divorces the other spouse after having lived together for years, and when asked why says "I never knew the person."
W
Winslow89
Guest
Sure. When someone obeys the gospel and becomes saved, they are a Christian according to God’s word. A Christian who falls away who ends up teaching heresy, false doctrine, etc etc is now a wolf. And someone who did not become saved according to God’s word who teaches false doctrine is also a wolf. A Christian who falls away who isn’t teaching heresy or false doctrine isn’t a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They have just fallen away and need to be restored.
Here are some examples.
Acts 20:29 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Ok, so we’re not talking about the fallen away, who once were and aren’t anymore. We’re talking about deceivers and false teachers who never had His Spirit, because they came from Satan.
And there is only one reason for divorce—- adultery.