Baptism of fire

[cronjecj]

Matthew 3:10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the FIRE.

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and FIRE.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable FIRE.

If the above "fire" is the fire of judgment then why do some preachers in church shout fire, fire, fire and as they do the people fall backwards??

 

[AnandaHya]

Revelation 13
13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[e] who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

 

[zone]

Matthew 3:10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the FIRE.

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and FIRE.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable FIRE.

If the above "fire" is the fire of judgment then why do some preachers in church shout fire, fire, fire and as they do the people fall backwards??

good points.
i agree with your post.
odd how the ministries/movements that do this a lot end up in aposatsy.

 

[cronjecj]

AnandaHya, thank you for the excellent respond out of the Word of God i needed it.

I'm not going to mention names but there are MANY of them that preaches the fire thingy which i know now that it ain't good.

 

[cronjecj]

Zone, i see that you have noticed them as well and i think everyone should be warned to run away from these fire teachings because it really ain't blessings or sanctification, the only thing i can make sense out of it is the "fire" been the baptism of fire judgment of Jesus when i searched the Word.

I guess lots of people today have itchy ears and just accept everything that comes there way because they don't know the Word that well maybe?

Hosea 4:6 My people perish from a lack of knowledge.

 

[AnandaHya]

Zone, i see that you have noticed them as well and i think everyone should be warned to run away from these fire teachings because it really ain't blessings or sanctification, the only thing i can make sense out of it is the "fire" been the baptism of fire judgment of Jesus when i searched the Word.

I guess lots of people today have itchy ears and just accept everything that comes there way because they don't know the Word that well maybe?

Hosea 4:6 My people perish from a lack of knowledge.

its a warning of the coming judgement of how they will be allowed to fulfill their lust and lead themselves to hell.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[cronjecj]

its a warning of the coming judgement of how they will be allowed to fulfill their lust and lead themselves to hell.

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Yes this is the perfect truth. We see it happening and is just the beginning until the son of perdition is revealed.

Let us all hold onto the truth forever so that we don't fall into any deception for the truth is what we need that leads to life.

 

[4runner]

Matthew 3:10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the FIRE.

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and FIRE.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable FIRE.

If the above "fire" is the fire of judgment then why do some preachers in church shout fire, fire, fire and as they do the people fall backwards??

lol, good question.

 

[zone]

Zone, i see that you have noticed them as well and i think everyone should be warned to run away from these fire teachings because it really ain't blessings or sanctification, the only thing i can make sense out of it is the "fire" been the baptism of fire judgment of Jesus when i searched the Word.

I guess lots of people today have itchy ears and just accept everything that comes there way because they don't know the Word that well maybe?

Hosea 4:6 My people perish from a lack of knowledge.

ya.
baptism by fire. they think its a second baptism. and i guess it is Kundalini. strange fire. all the REVIVALS today chant FIRE FIRE FIRE.
The Lord died for those sins also. if people would just repent. but it would cost them their friends and fellowship for a time, they'd know what its like to go it alone.

just look at all the FIRE MINISTRIES - and false prophets and teachers at the helm of every one.:

example:
Bonnke
The Reinhard Bonnke School of Fire

 

[cronjecj]

Zone, i didn't know Bonnke was one of them?

My question is do they purposely deceive the church for money or are they deceived themselves without even knowing.

 

[zone]

Zone, i didn't know Bonnke was one of them?

My question is do they purposely deceive the church for money or are they deceived themselves without even knowing.

both.
money and demon possession or spiritism whereby they are given the "doctrines: of devils.

deceiving and being deceived: God makes no distinction. THEY CAN BE FORGIVEN. but they'd have to feel convicted and foresake it all.

ask yourself: IS SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD?

Bonnke claims visits to heaven and conversations with God.

Satan himself appears as an angel of light, and his ministers, ministers of righteousness.

you know you're listening to a fake when they promise GREAT REVIVAL, with accompanying sings and wonders....Bible says apostasy with lying signs and wonders.

this is allowed to sift the church, to separate the wheat from the chaff.

THE OVERCOMERS HAVE RECEIVED THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH NO MATTER WHAT IT COSTS THEM.

 

[zone]

Yes this is the perfect truth. We see it happening and is just the beginning until the son of perdition is revealed.

Let us all hold onto the truth forever so that we don't fall into any deception for the truth is what we need that leads to life.

i pray a simple prayer daily:
Lord, if i have been deceived in any way, please reveal it to me, i want your truth at any cost.

it works. He is faithful.

but it is not always comfortable and entails sleepless nights searching for the errors and literally contending, struggling for the faith delivered once for all to the saints: we have to fight against strongholds and leaven DAILY.

and if we love the church we keep coming back even when ppl oppose us, and themselves.
most are better christians than i....they have patience. i personally don't have a lot of time for that. literally.

SIMPLE:

JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH PLUS NOTHING.

Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
Solus Christus - Christ Alone
Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
Sola Fide - Faith Alone
Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone


Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature ... God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace. We reaffirm that in salvation we are rescued from God's wrath by his grace alone. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life. We deny that salvation is in any sense a human work. Human methods, techniques or strategies by themselves cannot accomplish this transformation. Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. - Cambridge Declaration

love zonus.

 

[cronjecj]

Zone, thank you for the insights and i like the prayer that you pray every day.

For many i think it is hard NOT to be deceived with all the flattery talk out there!!

Here is an example, the one in white is Benny Hinn doing the fire thingy..

 

[zone]

Zone, thank you for the insights and i like the prayer that you pray every day.

For many i think it is hard NOT to be deceived with all the flattery talk out there!!

Here is an example, the one in white is Benny Hinn doing the fire thingy..

but MILLIONS AND MILLIONS eat this up.
and will tear to pieces any who criticize and warn them.
perhaps they are already gone.

STRONG DELUSION.

though occassionally i read testimonies of people who have been delivered. its not easy and it takes time. but it takes sensitivity to The True Holy Spirit.
too many over-ride His warnings and something happens.

they dont come out of it.

 

[Red33]

Consider the following passages of scripture as part of God's whole counsel when you consider this baptism of fire in (Mt 3:11). I propose that the baptism of fire is the baptism of the word in the heart of the believer.

Lk 24:31,32 And their eyes were opened , and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another , Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Jer 23:28,29 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Jer 20:9 Then I said , I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing , and I could not stay.

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

2Cor 11:29 Who is weak, and I do not feel [his] weakness? Who is made to stumble and fall and have his faith hurt, and I am not on fire (with sorrow or indignation)?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Jonathan edwards: sinners in the hands of an angry god

Sometimes the fire thingy as you say, is effective.

 

[Red33]

Jer 23:28,29

Fire has different effects, according as the matter is on which it works; it hardens clay, but softens wax; it consumes the dross, but purifies the gold. So the word of God is to some a savour of life unto life, to others of death unto death.

2Cor 2:14-17 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved , and in them that perish : 16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

God appeals here to the consciences of those to whom the word was sent: "Is not my word like fire? Has it not been so to you? Speak as you have found." It is compared likewise to a hammer breaking the rock in pieces. The unhumbled heart of man is like a rock; if it will not be melted by the word of God as the fire, it will be broken to pieces by it as the hammer. Whatever opposition is given to the word, it will be borne down and broken to pieces. Matthew Henry Commentary

 

[AnandaHya]

Isaiah 5:24
Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, And the flame consumes the chaff, So their root will be as rottenness, And their blossom will ascend like dust; Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the LORD God of hosts: “ Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.

Jeremiah 23:28-33
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 “ The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?” says the LORD.
29 “ Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD,

“ And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30 “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the LORD, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the LORD, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the LORD, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the LORD.
33 “So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the oracle of the LORD?’ you shall then say to them, ‘What oracle?’[a] I will even forsake you,” says the LORD.

 

[cronjecj]

Isaiah 5:24
Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, And the flame consumes the chaff, So their root will be as rottenness, And their blossom will ascend like dust; Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the LORD God of hosts: “ Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.

Jeremiah 23:28-33
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 “ The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?” says the LORD.
29 “ Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD,

“ And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30 “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the LORD, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the LORD, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the LORD, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the LORD.
33 “So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the oracle of the LORD?’ you shall then say to them, ‘What oracle?’[a] I will even forsake you,” says the LORD.

Now well understand why 'fire' is NOT sanctifying or cleansing but of God's anger and wrath as AnandaHya stated.

Also the following as you go further up in Jeremiah.
Jeremiah 5:11-14



11 The people of Israel and the people of Judah
have been utterly unfaithful to me,”
declares the LORD.
12 They have lied about the LORD;
they said, “He will do nothing!
No harm will come to us;
we will never see sword or famine.
13 The prophets are but wind
and the word is not in them;
so let what they say be done to them.”
14 Therefore this is what the LORD God Almighty says:
“Because the people have spoken these words,
I will make my words in your mouth a fire
and these people the wood it consumes.

 

[cronjecj]

Here is more scripture on "FIRE"

Luke 9: James/John want to call down fire from heaven on Samaritans who won't receive Jesus. Jesus rebukes them. A time for vengeance will come, but this is the time of invitation and that invitation is open even to these Samaritans who, at least for the moment, reject him.

Deuteronomy 4:23 So watch yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which He made with you, and make for yourselves a graven image in the form of anything against which the LORD your God has commanded you. For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 4:33 Has any people heard the voice of God speaking from the midst of the fire, as you have heard it, and survived?

Deuteronomy 9:3 Know therefore today that it is the LORD your God who is crossing over before you as a consuming fire. He will destroy them and He will subdue them before you, so that you may drive them out and destroy them quickly, just as the LORD has spoken to you.

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol, And consumes the earth with its yield, And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains

1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, He is God. And all the people answered and said, That is a good idea. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, The LORD, He is God; the LORD, He is God.

2 Kings 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.

Job 1:16 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.

Psalm 50:3 May our God come and not keep silence; Fire devours before Him, And it is very tempestuous around Him.

Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

Luke 16:22-24 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

So i ask again is the fire that is found in the Word of God of any sort of purification or is it in actual fact God's 'anger' 'wrath' 'judgment' 'consuming' 'burning' 'destroying' 'devouring'

I'm searching the scripture daily to test the teaching that comes out of the mouth of men. I had a good friend that i met a few years back, we talk a lot about God however when i started searching scripture to validate what they teach today in the church she became cross with me and accused me of attacking the body of Christ