There's scholars that will go into that in detail on the dead sea scrolls, they're not certain if it was on purpose, if it was just an error when copying the text, or if it was intentional, but there's definitely some major differences with the dead sea scrolls compared to the modern day Bible, there are certain texts that is almost identical word-for-word. But of course, this does not apply to the entire Old Testament. Now, if you run through the Old Testament. You will see that the prophets were constantly having to bring the Jews back to the original covenant that was made with God. This is no different. They erred from the covenant that was made through Moses, the mosaic covenant and they instead develop this very oppressive and very ritualistic blood sacrifice cult through animal sacrifice fir purification of their sins. This was never a requirement in the mosaic covenant. Actually time and time again god says that he desires mercy not sacrifice. This is what jesus was attempting to do through his ministry was to bring the jews back to the original mosaic l covenant in its pure state and to use baptism as a way to purify them of their sins instead of animal sacrifice. Jeremiah actually calls them out for this and makes it very clear they are deviating from the covenant that was made. Because of the greed in their heart , they are leading the people astray and doing what does not please god , this can be found in jeremiah 8:8. Actually there were quite a few extreme groups that chose to break away from society and live in the desert due to these practices in the temple of animal sacrifice, and one of them was the essenes which is where where we believe the dead sea scrolls come from. Therefore, it's easy it's easy to see that if they are deviating from the covenant then they are corrupting the word through the lying pens of the scribes.Hello Nufan, I've read through the entire Bible a number of times and I don't remember seeing it make that claim about itself, so please tell us where we can find it. Thanks
You also believe that the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Bible is in errorAgain, from what I've seen of them, I would have to say that he very opposite is true, that they help us prove the validity of the Bible instead. So again, please point us to the place or places in the Scrolls that you believe show that the Bible says things that are not true.
Thanks again!
~Deuteronomy
Does Jesus and Paul contradict each other?
- Thread starter Nufan
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Yes, and probably we all should state our beliefs more clearly. I was raised to believe OSAS but learning GW
including the 16 that tulipists deem to be sour converted me to be a five-point MFWer.
An interesting / different take, which I always see as good - question, investigate to understand, the strongest form of faith.
following Jesus is obviously pivotal! my short point on this;
John 6:29 - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
[so, we need to believe in Jesus as the Messiah sent by God, so if you do believe this then you only need to follow him and his teachings – it doesn’t mean do whatever you want NO Problem, as long as you believe in him]
Jesus clearly says (often) to do good works, as can be seen in;
Matt 5:18 - For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Jesus also says;
Luke 10:27-28
27 The man replied, "The Scriptures say, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind.' They also say, 'Love your neighbors as much as you love yourself.'"
28 Jesus said, "You have given the right answer. If you do this, you will have eternal life."
Matt 5:8-10 - "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
So, it comes down to accepting that Jesus is the Messiah and follow what he teaches, if you do that you will be saved.
Matt 23:8 - “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
following Jesus is obviously pivotal! my short point on this;
John 6:29 - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
[so, we need to believe in Jesus as the Messiah sent by God, so if you do believe this then you only need to follow him and his teachings – it doesn’t mean do whatever you want NO Problem, as long as you believe in him]
Jesus clearly says (often) to do good works, as can be seen in;
Matt 5:18 - For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Jesus also says;
Luke 10:27-28
27 The man replied, "The Scriptures say, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind.' They also say, 'Love your neighbors as much as you love yourself.'"
28 Jesus said, "You have given the right answer. If you do this, you will have eternal life."
Matt 5:8-10 - "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
So, it comes down to accepting that Jesus is the Messiah and follow what he teaches, if you do that you will be saved.
Matt 23:8 - “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.
You are one of the ones that work tirelessly to offset God's word.
Make it shaky and untrustworthy.
There is a spirit operating in all that.
You're mistaken by saying that, actually it's your word that works tirelessly to confuse and divide the true will and heart of God, and it was Jesus that revealed the way through his word laws and parables. Paul is actually an enemy of Christ because he comes to reinforce the blood cult belifs of sacrifice, death, and atonement. It is not Christ's death and resurrection that saves us it is by being obedient to christ that saves.
Therefore it did not please God to see Jesus crucified and killed on the Crosse.Because that's not consistent with the nature of God.God cannot take pleasure in death. God is the way to eternal life.
Hosea 6:6 — “I desire mercy, not sacrifice”
Amos 5:21–24 — “I hate, I despise your festivals…”
Isaiah 1:11–17 — “I have had enough of burnt offerings…”
1 Samuel 15:22 — “To obey is better than sacrifice…”
Psalm 51:16–17 — David says God doesn’t delight in sacrifice, then goes on to say, “you will not despise a broken and contrite heart”
God looks at the heart and he also considers where the people are at for that time, they were all moving away from pagan worship where they sacrifice flesh and blood to idols. God was sliwly transitioning them away from this abominable practice. God did take pleasure in some of the sacrifices of flesh and blood. Because he seen that they did so with a heart that was pleasing to him. Jesus was trying to show us how to follow the law love.So we are of the right heart and mind that is pleasing to God without the need to sacrifice animals of flesh and blood.Essentially jesus ministry was to phase out this practice completely and to use water baptism as a way to purify sin. I think a more appropriate way to understand what it means when God says it pleases him to see his son crush and die upon the cross was not necessarily the act of death but by the example of love for his enemies. This was essentially the apex of the perfect example that we should all be following after.
Actually you are the troll. Trollers be trollin as they deny the truth of God's Word.
Slow is as slow does!
Just because you aren't following the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) and are confused doesn't mean every one else is.
The teachings of Paul came from Jesus as it's the Holy Spirit leading Paul what to teach.
Paul wasn't making stuff up as he goers along as the reformed theology crowd claims as they continually twist Paul's teachings to their own destruction
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Those espousing false doctrine deserve to be mocked and should be mocked!
You have been deceived buddy.
If your claim is that Paul is a false teacher, then that is claiming Jesus FAILED to control what went in to God's canon claiming Jesus lacks the power and authority to provide mankind with God's Word in written form.
That's what the demons told you.
You should quit listening to devils.
Yeah, the devil's ideas about scripture which are all lies and deception
That's not true.
Lots of heresy being taught on forums like this.
Even more telling.
Not only do you trampled the bible but throw Paul and Jesus in also.
You are DEFINATELY a heretic.
Salvation is none of what you say.
Salvation is a person.
His name is Jesus.
You walked up to shoot the barn with a double barrel Shotgun and missed from two foot away.
Re "Lots of heresy being taught on forums like this.": Well, a few espouse heretical views on CC,
although less than there were a year ago when I joined. The main problematic opinion remaining
is tulipism, but the adherents have been around almost since the founding of CC, so I guess they are
grandfathered in by now, which is fine with me, because I have learned a lot from interacting with them.
So this is the conclusion i've come to is that none of you can use the words of jesus to validate paul's theology, and you want paul to speak for jesus instead of jesus to speak for god. So I think my final conclusion here is that I'm not welcome. This isn't gonna be a beneficial discussion, nobody's really taking what I'm saying into consideration.So i'm done. I guess this evil heretic that hates God and his plan for our salvation is officially no longer a member here.
Interesting that you "learned a lot" from talking to heretics
Yeah, looks like everyone is out to get you!
It is indeed ironic, but most of what I share on the Apologetics thread is prompted by my interactions with atheists,
mainly on an AKO forum in 2005-2008.
Pointing out that someone did not following God's Word is not "hating" them
You must be one of them liberals who think everyone is required to agree with you all the time and when they don't you go in to total victim meltdown having to go to your happy place to pet kitty kats and drink hot chocolate
No we are called to follow the Doctrine of Christ which is what Paul followed.
Paul followed Jesus and did not start his own demonic cult
Jesus neaver said to do this. He already instructed what to do but you been blinded with private visions of what Jesus wants.