Universal Laws of Heavenly Bodies

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M

Muskokaman

Banned
#361
Aug 18, 2011
971
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#361
zone said:
muskers:

is space a perfect vacuum?
please confirm.
(this can demolish it all bud....)
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Well that's what we're told by modern science but I personally cannot corroberate any of their findings.
1 I do not have the means
2 like most folks I take things at face value after 40+ years of the same info being spiked into your head

I can see the overwhelming all encompassing conspiracy that is so pervasive, so subtle so malevolent and so interwoven in todays society that when you first realise it you think you have lost your mind!

conclusion I can't verify anything truthfully lest I build my own ship and sensor array to discern the heavens. Since I cannot do this I have 1 option left and that is taking all the info I can get here on earth and attempt to discern with my own cogniscence.
 
P

PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#362
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
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#362
Muskokaman said:
Well that's what we're told by modern science but I personally cannot corroberate any of their findings.
1 I do not have the means
2 like most folks I take things at face value after 40+ years of the same info being spiked into your head

I can see the overwhelming all encompassing conspiracy that is so pervasive, so subtle so malevolent and so interwoven in todays society that when you first realise it you think you have lost your mind!

conclusion I can't verify anything truthfully lest I build my own ship and sensor array to discern the heavens. Since I cannot do this I have 1 option left and that is taking all the info I can get here on earth and attempt to discern with my own cogniscence.
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Well... That was quite a cogent and refreshing rational assessment and return to neutrality. :)
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#363
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
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#363
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Stepping aside from all the rhetoric and whatever emotion gets tied up in all this...

Surely you understand the contentions about the speed of light and the parallax and red shift, etc. all being hypothetical. What I'm asking of you is one step back to make a long objective neutral consideration of both sides, if you can. It just isn't prudent to dismiss it all out of hand. It IS hypothetical.

That doesn't automatically mean it's fallacious and invalid; but I personally insist on more specific evidence for heliocentricity before I can even consider it.

When I came here and met zone, I already had a substantial outline of the Eschaton factors, events, and players. Her copious research clarified everything I already knew and collated it together in some areas that needed focus.

What I'm genuinely asking from you is... In light of the end-times undermining layers of conspiracy to establish the New World Order... please demonstrate overwhelming proof that these areas of science AREN'T hypothetical and part of the agenda. The questions and challenges are valid, especially in that context.

Can you get to that point of neutral objectivity and proceed from there? After the Godhead topic, I'm concerned that you can't. What say ye? :)
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PPS dear brother all our disagreements aside I can be completely neutral. Please don't mistake my methodology of ascertaining truth to be adversarial (though it may be percieved by some to be this way) I find that if a person is willing to fight for a cause or ideaology they believe in that there may be some validity to their argument. Otherwise they are trying to blow smoke up my donkey.

I ascertain validity of all info. this way it is foolproof. The only ones left after round 1 are not fools and therefore have to be either genuine in their beliefs or so well versed that they arise in me a suspicion as to why they fight so hard for something they cannot prove 100%.

That being said and knowing that there is defintely a world wide conspiracy afoot with a goal of world domination the question then falls to authenticity of scripture doesn't it?

If we are to admit the conspiracy theory exists then how pervasive is it? How long has it been in place? Who's to say the bible itself hasn't been altered long ago to aid in achieving this end?

Before I draw the wrath of others on here with their assessment of my words as being heretical let me give you a little insider info on myself.
Are you familiar with wolves and their nature?
If you are............ then you will understand mine.
This is my M.O.......as of several months ago I came to the conclusion of my ancestry as I have studied it foryears now and it was only after much deliberation and prayer that I ascertained my lineage to be of Benjamin.......I can hear the mockery and scoffing starting already. Yet I truly believe this now and zones incredible copious amount of knowledge that she has put forth has only strengthened my belief in that. The following passage has very very much meaning for me perhaps it will bring some to you about me.
Genesis 49:27
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#365
Aug 18, 2011
971
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#365
JohnChingford2007 said:
Thanks Musk for the humility to admit those things.

I don't believe you are correct in saying that we should try to figure out how God creates. What was God's reply to Job in Job chapters 39-41? and how did Job respond to God's words in Job 42:2-3?

Job said "“I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted. You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know"

Too wonderful for me to KNOW ie it is impossible to know the ways of God.

and Romans 11:33

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

The ways of God cannot be measured. They are beyond our limited, finite minds and beyond the normal pattern of the way WE THINK the Universe operates.

Let me ask: can science ever figure out how Jesus was raised from the dead? NEVER, because God moves in the miraculous and supernatural. Science cannot measure the IMPOSSIBLE, neither should we try. It is futile and dabbling (occultic?) in realms we should not consider touching.

God wants us to trust Him (with what He said in the Bible) without trying to PROVE through science whether God can be trusted or not. Do you think God is happy with mankind trying to prove God wrong? "without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6

However, God knew these futile attempts would take place

In His grace/mercy He even assisted scientists in proving the accuracy of the bible BASED ON THINGS ON EARTH mostly through archaeology etc. See what it says here:

"This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the LORD. Jeremiah 31:37

If you read that passage in context you will see that God was not saying that the Heavens could be measured. In fact the very opposite. God was saying that it is impossible for the Heavens and Earth to be measured. The context was regarding God's promise to Israel that THEY would never cease to be a people on Earth, ie BECAUSE the heavens will NEVER be measured.
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I do not agree with you John on the whole we shouldn't try to learn about the makeup of the heavens if we weren't God would not have made us so curious!
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#366
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#366
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Okay, I know where to find him.



Nothing original. Same Spirit. Remember?



Out of curiosity, when's the last time someone already knew the Eschaton was being ushered in by non-Hebrew Israel through the Pharisee spirit that was anti-Christ out of Turkey and everything was being implemented through Communitarianism/Socialism and would invade the Evangelical community through a hybridized movement from within... but just didn't lace it all up in tennis shoes with a brand name? All from the Word by the Spirit. I even studied parts of the Ancient Babylonian Code of Hammurabi, among other things; but wasn't sure what the Babylonian connection was and how it related to Revelation Babylon, etc.

Thanx for all your efforts of His faithfulness in you. I really needed the clarity of all the integration to bring everything into focus in such cohesive detail. The first time I heard you reference Talmudic Judaism and the leaven of the Pharisees, I knew it was the increased-resolution pixelation of all God had put in my heart from the Word by the Spirit. I really didn't know exactly how to collate it all. I knew almost every individual fact and others, but I wasn't really expending much energy to finalize it all. I was focused more on the Pre-Trib/Post-Trib aspect to denounce Dispensationalism and expose the Rapture as a contrived false hope. That alone has been daunting enough without facing down the Islamophobes about non-Hebrew modern Israel being the Eschaton source.

Anyway... I thought it might mean something to summarize how effective your labor of love has been in connecting the many dots on my page (papyrus?). Don't give up. Don't stop. Be encouraged and lifted up in the strong and mighty name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the One True and Living God Manifested in Flesh. To Him be all glory and honor and praise forever and ever.
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thank you brother.
pay back for understanding the Son of Himself?

have you seen the Noahides in Ghana video? see where Doc is working.
i am so grieved.
 
J

JohnChingford2007

Guest
#368
#368
Muskokaman said:
I do not agree with you John on the whole we shouldn't try to learn about the makeup of the heavens if we weren't God would not have made us so curious!
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Huh? Musk could you please make that clearer.

Regarding curiosity. What about Eve being curious about the tree of the knowlege of good and evil? Curiosity leads to temptation and doubt in God's Word. Curiosity is a trait of our sinful nature. Faith is not curious, it trusts what God has said about the Universe.
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#369
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
0
#369
JohnChingford2007 said:
Huh? Musk could you please make that clearer.

Regarding curiosity. What about Eve being curious about the tree of the knowlege of good and evil? Curiosity leads to temptation and doubt in God's Word. Curiosity is a trait of our sinful nature. Faith is not curious, it trusts what God has said about the Universe.
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Yeah and curiousity killed the cat too John doesn't mean it's a sin!

Lame argument man sorry!

Curiousity is not a trait of sin John where did you exegete that one from?

You ever wonder why Eve didn't go to the tree of life first John?

You refute all knowledge on the basis if it wasn't in the scriptures then it can't be any good! WHY?

Is it not good to save children with medicine or should we just let them die?

We wouldn't know about medicine if it weren't for curiousity bud!

Same argument applies to understanding the heavens John!
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#370
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
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#370
HUH no responses eh! What cat got all your tongues? Or are we all playing the shunning card?
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#371
#371
zone said:
Why cant lagrange points work in a stationary earth, rotating universe (aether) scenario to produce a force that keeps objects fixed in space? Like electromagnetism?
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lagrangian points would exist in a geocentric universe...but they would not be in the locations where we actually observe them

specifically we would see L1 between us and the sun...about 148.1 million kilometers from us... L2 would be 1.5 million kilometers past the sun... L3 would be on the opposite side of the earth from the sun...about 149.6 kilometers from us... L4 would be 60 degrees west of the sun as seen in our sky and L5 would be 60 degrees east of the sun

no lagrangian points actually exist at those locations...

instead we observe all five lagrangian points in exactly the locations where we would expect to find them in a heliocentric system
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#372
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#372
RachelBibleStudent said:
lagrangian points would exist in a geocentric universe...but they would not be in the locations where we actually observe them

specifically we would see L1 between us and the sun...about 148.1 million kilometers from us... L2 would be 1.5 million kilometers past the sun... L3 would be on the opposite side of the earth from the sun...about 149.6 kilometers from us... L4 would be 60 degrees west of the sun as seen in our sky and L5 would be 60 degrees east of the sun

no lagrangian points actually exist at those locations...

instead we observe all five lagrangian points in exactly the locations where we would expect to find them in a heliocentric system
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we 'observe' langragian points do we? Ok show me one in real life not on a peice of paper or on a computer.

thanks
 
P

PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#373
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#373
zone said:
we 'observe' langragian points do we? Ok show me one in real life not on a peice of paper or on a computer.

thanks
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Well... I say heliocentrists are conspiracy theory theorists, just like they're scientific theory theorists.

So much for empirical evidence and "observation".
 
J

JohnChingford2007

Guest
#375
#375
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Well... I say heliocentrists are conspiracy theory theorists, just like they're scientific theory theorists.

So much for empirical evidence and "observation".
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Hi Bro
one big HUH!!! what does that mean?
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#378
Aug 18, 2011
971
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#378
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Accusing others of being Conspiracy Theorists is theorizing about Conspiracy Theorists. So... They're Conspiracy Theory Theorists. Same with Science.
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So you think heliocentricism which has been purported since Galileo and corroberated with findings from many different thoughts of scientific study is utter nonsense? Right?

Well there's no accounting for taste I guess! You Know PPS I have tucked my tail in on this subject because I do not wish to offend anyone but even with Doc.s proposed geocentricist model I spent hours watching yesterday I still do not believe in geocentricism. when It comes right down to brass tacts neither of us can prove jack about the nature of the heavenly bodies with science if we are to refute the science we are using.
So that being said lets see some scripture without exegete (I don't want some other mans Ideas polluting the thought process) that proves geocentricism and we will go from there
 
J

JohnChingford2007

Guest
#379
#379
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Accusing others of being Conspiracy Theorists is theorizing about Conspiracy Theorists. So... They're Conspiracy Theory Theorists. Same with Science.
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Thanks PPS for that explanation. I understand you now. So, are you saying that heliocentrists accuse those (who reckon them to be conspiring and lying for their own ends about science) of promoting lies?

If so, would you please elaborate. I am getting interested in the point you want to make.

Thanks
 
J

JohnChingford2007

Guest
#380
#380
Muskokaman said:
You Know PPS I have tucked my tail in on this subject because I do not wish to offend anyone but even with Doc.s proposed geocentricist model I spent hours watching yesterday I still do not believe in geocentricism. when It comes right down to brass tacts neither of us can prove jack about the nature of the heavenly bodies with science if we are to refute the science we are using.
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I agree Musk. The level I have been working on is to prove that nothing in science can be proved. It is ONLY THE BIBLE which can be trusted. If God said it, IT IS TRUE.

I don't think geo or helio centrists can be proved, but I do take the Doc's point that scripture COULD imply a stationary Earth. Scripture could also be interpreted (using the poetic language) to imply the Bible does not categorically state that the Earth is stationary. Sometimes I believe we need to interpret the scriptures logically and with our God given common sense using the context of teaching from the whole Bible. Of course we also need help from the Holy Spirit to interpret.
 
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