The New Covenant Is Not What Many Have Been Taught

[Inquisitor]

The works of the Law/Torah is the sacrificial law which was added to the Torah because the Children could not stop sinning. Christ gave the one sacrifice that the sacrificial law was foreshadowing.

there is no work involved in not lying.

Have you wrestled with sin?

Not lusting after women requires an extraordinary act of your will and it's constant.

Not coveting an extraordinary range of things that others have is very difficult.

To tell the truth on all occasions even when it will cost you, is definitely an inward struggle.

I don't believe you said "there is no work involved in not lying".

 

[vassal]

you are really so unfamiliar with the Word of God?

2 Corinthians 3:5-8​

​

... our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ​

​

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?​

Jesus never said God’s commandments kill. He said the opposite. He said, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV). He also said, “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63, KJV). So whatever Paul meant in 2 Corinthians 3, it cannot mean that the Ten Commandments themselves cause death, because Jesus said they lead to life.

Jesus explained where death really comes from. He said that what defiles and destroys a person comes from the heart, from sin, not from God’s law (Matthew 15:18–20, KJV). The commandments do not create sin. They reveal it. Just like light does not cause dirt, it only shows where the dirt is.

When Paul speaks about “the letter” killing, Jesus already explained this idea in a much clearer and safer way. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they obeyed the law outwardly, but their hearts were far from God. They had the words written, but not the love, mercy, and obedience of the heart (Matthew 23:23, KJV). This is what kills. Not the commandments, but using them without repentance, faith, and love.

Jesus also taught that the Spirit does not cancel the commandments. The Spirit helps us keep them. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15, KJV), and then promised the Spirit who would “bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you” (John 14:26, KJV). The Spirit reminds us of Jesus’ words. He does not erase them.

So when Paul speaks of a “ministry of death written on stones,” he is speaking about what happens when people face God’s holy law while remaining in sin, without repentance and without the Spirit changing the heart. The law stands holy and good, but sinful man, when resisting God, meets condemnation. The death comes from sin meeting holiness, not from holiness itself.

Even Paul admits the commandments were “glorious.” Glory does not come from death. Glory comes from God. The problem was not the covenant, but the people’s hearts. Moses himself said Israel had uncircumcised hearts (Deuteronomy 10:16, KJV). Jesus confirmed the same problem many years later.

Jesus never taught a gospel of “letter versus Spirit.” He taught truth with the Spirit, obedience with love, commandments written on the heart. The Spirit gives life because He brings people back to obedience from the inside, not because He removes God’s law.

So the correct understanding, in the light of Jesus’ words, is this:
The commandments of God are holy, good, and life-giving. Death comes when sinful hearts resist them. The Spirit does not replace the commandments. He gives us the power to live them in truth and love.

Anything beyond that would place Paul above Jesus, and Jesus Himself warned us not to do that. “The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, KJV).

 

[posthuman]

actions of the Law that people relied on to claim righteousness. Paul himself explains this.

including so-called keeping of the 10 commandments:

Romans 2:1​

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.​

​

Romans 2:21-23​

You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?​

 

[posthuman]

Jesus never said God’s commandments kill.

He said no one is good but God alone.
you know what that means?
you don't keep the commandments, therefore they condemn you - despite any boast you may make.

Galatians 3:10-12​

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, ​

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."​

But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for ​

"the just shall live by faith."​

Yet the law is not of faith, but ​

"the man who does them shall live by them."​

 

[posthuman]

If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments

contextless.

you're 100% clearly twisting the scripture here.

no one is good but God alone

you do not keep the law, and you cannot inherit life from it - - your failure to keep it condemns you.

the Law is a schoolmaster to bring you to Christ - - to seek mercy.

Christ is not a schoolmaster to put us under the law. He is a Redeemer to set us free

 

[vassal]

including so-called keeping of the 10 commandments:

Romans 2:1​

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.​

​

Romans 2:21-23​

You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?​

in answer, Paul himself would have said to you;

Thou hast well cited that hypocrisy brings condemnation, but thou hast not understood what thou hast quoted. I did not write these things to condemn the law, God forbid. I wrote them to silence those who boast in the law while breaking it.

The law is not made void by my words. Rather, the law exposes sin. When I say that a man is without excuse, it is because he knows what is right and yet does it not. The fault lies not in the commandment, but in the man who hears and does not obey.

When I say, “Thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?” I do not mock the commandment, but the hypocrisy. For the commandment is holy, just, and good, but sin takes occasion through disobedience and brings judgment upon the transgressor.

The judgment, therefore, is not against those who obey from the heart, but against those who boast in knowledge while walking contrary to it. Circumcision, law, and teaching profit nothing when the heart remains uncircumcised. The hearers of the law are not justified, but the doers of it.

Thus my words do not destroy obedience. They destroy false confidence. They do not remove the standard of righteousness, but reveal who truly walks in it. For God is not mocked, and He will judge every man according to truth, whether Jew or Gentile.

So let no man twist my rebuke of hypocrisy into an accusation against the commandments of God. The condemnation comes from sin practiced against known truth, not from the truth itself.

 

[Inquisitor]

Calling the Ten Commandments of God a “ministry of death” is a very grave sin because it speaks evil of what God Himself called holy, good, and life-giving, and it directly contradicts what Jesus taught.

First, the Ten Commandments come from God’s own voice. God did not give them to destroy people, but to teach them how to live. Moses said, “He declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments” (Deuteronomy 4:13, KJV). A covenant from God is not a curse. It is a gift that shows His will and His care for His people.

Second, God clearly says His commandments are for life, not death. Moses told Israel, “I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19, KJV). The commandments show the path of life. Death comes from sin, not from the law that points out sin.

Third, Jesus fully honored and defended the commandments. He never spoke against them. He said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law… I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matthew 5:17, KJV). Then He warned, “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19, KJV). To call God’s commandments a ministry of death is exactly the kind of teaching Jesus warned against.

Fourth, Jesus tied eternal life directly to keeping God’s commandments. When the rich young ruler asked about eternal life, Jesus answered, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV). Jesus did not say the commandments bring death. He said they lead to life.

Fifth, Jesus explained that the real problem is the human heart, not God’s law. He taught that evil comes from within, from the heart of man, and that this is what defiles a person (Matthew 15:18–20, KJV). The law exposes sin, but it does not cause it. Blaming the commandments for death is like blaming light for showing dirt. The light is good. The dirt is the problem.

Sixth, calling the commandments a ministry of death accuses God of evil. Scripture says, “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul” (Psalm 19:7, KJV), and “All his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever” (Psalm 111:7–8, KJV). To label what God calls perfect and sure as death is to speak against God’s character.

Finally, this kind of language leads people away from obedience. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15, KJV). When people are taught that God’s commandments are death, they are taught to fear obedience instead of loving it. This turns people away from the very words by which Jesus said we will be judged. “The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, KJV).

For these reasons, calling the Ten Commandments a ministry of death is not a small mistake. It dishonors God’s covenant, contradicts Jesus’ own words, confuses sin with the law that exposes it, and leads people away from the path of life that God lovingly gave.

Scripture places agape love at the center, the fruit of the Spirit as its expression, and Christ as its full revelation.

The law is external and requires an act of the will at all times.

The law is simply 'do not do this' otherwise you die.

The law does not grant eternal life rather it exposes your inability to be righteous.

The Catholics, Reformers, and Protestants, are all under the law.

Thanks to Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, and the rest of the philosophers that can't read.

 

[posthuman]

Calling the Ten Commandments of God a “ministry of death” is a very grave sin

the Holy Spirit said it, not me

so watch out Who you accuse of sin.

 

[posthuman]

confuses sin with the law that exposes it,

exposing sin = condemnation.

the Law proves you are a liar: it ministers death to you.

how then will you be saved?

there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, because we have died, and our life is hid in Him - the Law does not apply to anyone after they have died.

His covenant is faith, not works.
we are not under the Law.
we are called children of Abraham by faith, not of Moses.

 

[vassal]

the Holy Spirit said it, not me

so watch out Who you accuse of sin.

are you calling paul a man, a mere servant of christ the Holy spirit? stop repeating verses YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, Peter warned us about this, PAUL IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID! You have twisted his words beyond recognition and are blaspheming doing so.

 

[posthuman]

boy do Pharisees hate the gospel

 

[posthuman]

are you calling paul a man, a mere servant of christ the Holy spirit? stop repeating verses YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, Peter warned us about this, PAUL IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID! You have twisted his words beyond recognition and are blaspheming doing so.

the Scriptures are breathed by God, written by the Holy Spirit, and Paul penned scripture - Peter attests to that.

are you really so ignorant?
or just so upset that your soteriology is exposed as false?

 

[vassal]

boy do Pharisees hate the gospel

you are obviously following exclusively paul whom you do not understand, paul was a pharisee and you think exactly like him but twist his words to your destruction. your reply applies to you not me, pharisee!

 

[memberofthebride]

Have you wrestled with sin?

Not lusting after women requires an extraordinary act of your will and it's constant.

Not coveting an extraordinary range of things that others have is very difficult.

To tell the truth on all occasions even when it will cost you, is definitely an inward struggle.

I don't believe you said "there is no work involved in not lying".

not in comparison to sacrificing an animal

 

[vassal]

Scripture places agape love at the center, the fruit of the Spirit as its expression, and Christ as its full revelation.

The law is external and requires an act of the will at all times.

The law is simply 'do not do this' otherwise you die.

The law does not grant eternal life rather it exposes your inability to be righteous.

The Catholics, Reformers, and Protestants, are all under the law.

Thanks to Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, and the rest of the philosophers that can't read.

Here is a clear and firm reply, keeping the focus on Scripture and on Jesus, not on insults or philosophy:

You are right that agape love is central, but Jesus never separated love from obedience. He joined them. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15, KJV). Love is not a replacement for God’s commandments. Love is the reason we keep them.

The law was never meant to be empty rules from the outside only. Moses already said the problem was the heart, not the law. “Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart” (Deuteronomy 10:16, KJV). Jesus taught the same thing. He showed that the commandments reach into the heart, into anger, lust, pride, and mercy (Matthew 5). That is not external. That is deeply internal.

Saying the law is only “do not do this or you die” ignores what God Himself said. God said, “Which if a man do, he shall live in them” (Leviticus 18:5, KJV). Jesus confirmed this exact truth when He said, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV). Jesus did not say the law only exposes failure. He said it points to life.

The law does not give eternal life by itself because eternal life is a relationship with God, but the law shows what that life looks like. Jesus defined eternal life as knowing God and obeying His word (John 17:3, John 8:51). Exposure of sin is not the purpose of the law alone. Teaching righteousness is.

Saying that everyone who teaches obedience is “under the law” is exactly what Jesus corrected. He said the Pharisees were wrong not because they taught the commandments, but because they did not live them with mercy, justice, and faith (Matthew 23:23). Jesus did not remove the commandments. He purified them.

Dragging Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, or philosophers into this does not help. Truth does not stand or fall by church history. Truth stands on the words of Jesus. And Jesus being the foundation of the church never taught freedom from God’s commandments. He taught freedom from sin, so that we could obey from the heart.

The Spirit does not replace the law. The Spirit writes it inside us. That is exactly what God promised from the beginning. “I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts” (Jeremiah 31:33, KJV).

So love is central, yes. Christ is the full revelation, yes. But Christ Himself said that love for God is proven by obedience to His commandments. Anything that separates love from obedience is not the teaching of Jesus.

 

[Dino246]

Jesus never said God’s commandments kill.

That's a ridiculous dodge, because it misrepresents both the words of Scripture and what posthuman asserted. It's the same kind of "logic" that Moslems use when they say that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Anything beyond that would place Paul above Jesus, and Jesus Himself warned us not to do that.

No, Jesus did not warn us not to put Paul's words above His own. Rather, He inspired Paul to write, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God".

 

[vassal]

the Scriptures are breathed by God, written by the Holy Spirit, and Paul penned scripture - Peter attests to that.

are you really so ignorant?
or just so upset that your soteriology is exposed as false?

I know for a fact that scripture is closed to you, your arrogance and pride and heart of stone will be the end of you, There is only one truth and it is not with you. goodbye!

 

[vassal]

That's a ridiculous dodge, because it misrepresents both the words of Scripture and what posthuman asserted. It's the same kind of "logic" that Moslems use when they say that Jesus never claimed to be God.


No, Jesus did not warn us not to put Paul's words above His own. Rather, He inspired Paul to write, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God".

First point:
“Jesus never said God’s commandments kill.”

This is not a dodge. It is a fact.!!

Jesus repeatedly spoke of God’s commandments as life-giving, never as death-giving.

Jesus said plainly,
“If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV).

That statement alone settles the issue. If the commandments killed, Jesus could not truthfully say they lead to life.

Jesus also said,
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63, KJV).

And again,
“He that keepeth my saying shall never see death” (John 8:51, KJV).

So when someone claims Scripture teaches that God’s commandments kill, the burden of proof is on them to show Jesus ever said that. He did not. Comparing this to Muslims denying Jesus’ divinity fails, because the Gospels do record Jesus claiming divine authority, but they do not record Him calling God’s law death.

Death, according to Jesus, comes from sin, not from the law.
“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts… these are the things which defile a man” (Matthew 15:19–20, KJV).

Second point:

Second point:

“Jesus did not warn us not to put Paul above Him.”

Yes he did! Jesus did give a clear rule about authority and order. He said,

“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord” (Matthew 10:24, KJV).

That statement alone establishes the order. No student, no servant, no apostle can stand above the Master. Jesus is the Master. Everyone else is a disciple.

Jesus also said,

“The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, KJV).

He did not say, “The later writings will judge you.” He said His words will.

Jesus further warned against placing anything above God’s commandments, even religious teaching:

“Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Matthew 15:3, KJV).

This shows a principle Jesus made very clear. No teaching, no tradition, and no teacher is allowed to override God’s commandments.

Jesus also warned about teachers who weaken obedience:

“Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19, KJV).

This warning applies to anyone who teaches, without exception.

So when someone says that quoting Paul above Jesus is acceptable, Jesus Himself already answered that. The student is not greater than the Master. The servant is not above the Lord.

Even if Scripture is inspired, it must be understood in harmony with Jesus, because Jesus said,

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law… till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law” (Matthew 5:17–18, KJV).

Jesus is not one voice among many. He is the Teacher by whom all others are measured.

Anything that places another voice above His words is already out of order according to Jesus Himself.

In simple truth:

Jesus never said God’s commandments kill.
Jesus said they lead to life.
Jesus said His words will judge us.
Jesus warned against teaching people to break God’s commandments.

That is not dodging Scripture.
That is standing exactly where Jesus told us to stand.

 

[Dino246]

First point:
“Jesus never said God’s commandments kill.”

This is not a dodge. It is a fact.!!

It's a dodge, because posthuman didn't claim that Jesus did say that. It's as much fact as me saying the outside temperature is -15 C here, but equally irrelevant to the conversation.

Jesus said plainly,
“If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV).

That statement alone settles the issue.

Only in your mind, because you reject Paul's words as Scripture.

So when someone claims Scripture teaches that God’s commandments kill, the burden of proof is on them to show Jesus ever said that.

No, it isn't. If I claim Elisha instructed Joash to shoot arrows toward the East, I have no need to prove Jesus said that Elisha so instructed Joash, because it is established in Scripture. ALL of Scripture is God-breathed; Paul included!

Death, according to Jesus, comes from sin, not from the law.
“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts… these are the things which defile a man” (Matthew 15:19–20, KJV).

Irrelevant.

Second point: “Jesus did not warn us not to put Paul above Him.”

Yes he did!

Jesus said nothing about Paul during His earthly ministry. Regardless, your claim sidesteps the issue at hand, because nobody is attempting to put Paul above Jesus; rather, both are Scripture, and both are the words of God.

Regarding the rest of your post, you hold a heterodox view of the unity and harmony of Scripture.

 

[Inquisitor]

Dragging Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, or philosophers into this does not help. Truth does not stand or fall by church history. Truth stands on the words of Jesus. And Jesus being the foundation of the church never taught freedom from God’s commandments. He taught freedom from sin, so that we could obey from the heart.

You cannot deny church history.

Your church has it's own history and the characters that shaped your church doctrine.

Augustine of Hippo (4th century AD) made earlier distinctions between the moral law and symbolical precepts,
which influenced later thought, though he gave less consideration to civil law.

That's church history.

Thomas Aquinas (13th century AD) is credited with formalizing the three distinct categories. He argued:
Moral precepts (the Ten Commandments) are dictated by natural law and remain perpetually binding on all people.
Ceremonial precepts were determinations of divine worship specific to ancient Israel, foreshadowed Christ, and are no longer binding. Judicial/Civil precepts outlined justice for the Israelite commonwealth and ceased to be binding as specific laws when that nation's polity ended, although their general principles of equity may still be applicable to modern societies.

That's church history also.

Thomas Aquinas (13th Century) was the greatest theologian of the Catholic Church.

The Reformation began in the 16th century when Martin Luther posted his "95 Theses" in Wittenberg, Germany.

The Reformation started three hundred years after Thomas Aquinas.

John Calvin was a Reformer in the 16th century.

John Calvin read the works of Thomas Aquinas (13th century) and agreed with the partition of the law,

into Moral, Ceremonial, and Judicial law.

Hence, the Reformation adopted the idea of Jesus plus the law.

The Protestant followed church tradition and also adopted Jesus plus the law.

The Methodists were a Protestant church that arose from the Church of England.

Ellen G White was raised in a Methodist church and she was taught that same idea; Jesus plus the law.

That is church history and there is nothing you can do about that.

You cannot deny that you walk in the footsteps of the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas.