The New Covenant Is Not What Many Have Been Taught

[Inquisitor]

The technical term "feuerbend machen" would be similar to saying "worship on Sunday". It in the German language refers to the idiomatic relationship between their language, and to have curfew that is legally enforced on this day. The holy Catholic Church is in dominion over Germany, but there are specific ways to understand that Martin Luther instituted provisions for commercial law such as placing an outright ban on "indulgences". These are part of the integral reasons for separation of Church and State, since the State would often require indulgences to be paid like tax, which is no longer principally valid.

Martin Luther seemed obsessed with "indulgences".

I think numbers 21 to 95 of the '95 Theses' were indulgence related.

That may be incorrect but nearly the entire bulk of the 95 Thesis is about indulgences.

When you are managing an empire as the Catholic Church was in the seventeenth century.

That would cost a fortune to run even with a free workforce.

Consider the thirty year war between the Catholics and the Protestants.

That war would have come at an enormous cost to both sides.

Indulgences are simply the tax that the emperor imposed on those nations in the Roman empire.

 

[Inquisitor]

Proverbs 3:9-10, "Honor the Lord with your wealth and the best part of everything you produce. Then he will fill your barns with grain and your vats will overflow with good wine".

That is how I understand the idiom "Sabbath rest".

Is the reward here or upstairs?

 

[Inquisitor]

The language used for the end of things is always de-creation language. It is the opposite of creation language wherein God assembles things, de-creation language has the destruction of things. Instead of the sun and moon giving light, one finds darkness. Instead of the skies expanding, they are rolled up. Etc, etc.

The cross was a turning point in history. From the onset of sin to the cross, things got progressively worse. Sin multiplied. The effects of sin deepened. Until...the cross. Since, things have slowly but progressively gotten better. Jesus is destroying the works of the devil and restoring things as they were.

Huh?

 

[Tex_MidwesternerNW]

Martin Luther seemed obsessed with "indulgences".

I think numbers 21 to 95 of the '95 Theses' were indulgence related.

That may be incorrect but nearly the entire bulk of the 95 Thesis is about indulgences.

When you are managing an empire as the Catholic Church was in the seventeenth century.

That would cost a fortune to run even with a free workforce.

Consider the thirty year war between the Catholics and the Protestants.

That war would have come at an enormous cost to both sides.

Indulgences are simply the tax that the emperor imposed on those nations in the Roman empire.

Luke 20:24-25, "He saw through their trickery and said, "Show me a Roman coin.* Whose picture and title are stamped on it?" "Caesar's," they replied. "Well then," he said, "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.""

 

[posthuman]

The language used for the end of things is always de-creation language. It is the opposite of creation language wherein God assembles things, de-creation language has the destruction of things. Instead of the sun and moon giving light, one finds darkness. Instead of the skies expanding, they are rolled up. Etc, etc.

The cross was a turning point in history. From the onset of sin to the cross, things got progressively worse. Sin multiplied. The effects of sin deepened. Until...the cross. Since, things have slowly but progressively gotten better. Jesus is destroying the works of the devil and restoring things as they were.

not so sure..

knowledge has increased, and with it our leisure and bread - but wasn't the same true in Sodom? and their sin was neglecting the poor and needy, and hating the foreigner that sojourned with them.

wickedness will only increase until the cup of His wrath is full, and the last of those He intends to save, turns to Him. i do not believe the purpose of the church is to redeem the world, but to endure it until our Bridegroom snatches us away. when He appears again it will be in judgement - how else will this be the case, unless things progressively get worse?

in the end of days, the while world will follow someone who pretends to be righteous, but who sets himself above God. that's not "improvement" apart from it being more honest; sin openly laid bare, instead of disguised. but this is shameless idolatry - - it will be as in the days of Noah, every heart's thought only evil continually.

 

[posthuman]

The technical term "feuerbend machen" would be similar to saying "worship on Sunday"

Meinst du, 'Feierabend machen'..?

 

[posthuman]

The technical term "feuerbend machen" would be similar to saying "worship on Sunday". It in the German language refers to the idiomatic relationship between their language, and to have curfew that is legally enforced on this day. The holy Catholic Church is in dominion over Germany, but there are specific ways to understand that Martin Luther instituted provisions for commercial law such as placing an outright ban on "indulgences". These are part of the integral reasons for separation of Church and State, since the State would often require indulgences to be paid like tax, which is no longer principally valid.

it's less common in Northern Germany than in Southern - - a religious division of Protestant / Catholic prevalence, but yes there on Sundays particularly in Bayern it is practically impossible to find an open store on a Sunday.
this is a weird amalgam of trying to keep sabbath while also trying to distance the church from Judaism - - Sunday is indeed the day Christ rose and the day that believers have since the 1st century met to worship and remember His resurrection, but it isn't sabbath in the sense the law of Moses required of the Israelites, and it certainly isn't the actual sabbath day.

Germany is quite a weird country - seat of the HRE and also arguably the birthplace of the reformation

 

[Cameron143]

not so sure..

knowledge has increased, and with it our leisure and bread - but wasn't the same true in Sodom? and their sin was neglecting the poor and needy, and hating the foreigner that sojourned with them.

wickedness will only increase until the cup of His wrath is full, and the last of those He intends to save, turns to Him. i do not believe the purpose of the church is to redeem the world, but to endure it until our Bridegroom snatches us away. when He appears again it will be in judgement - how else will this be the case, unless things progressively get worse?

in the end of days, the while world will follow someone who pretends to be righteous, but who sets himself above God. that's not "improvement" apart from it being more honest; sin openly laid bare, instead of disguised. but this is shameless idolatry - - it will be as in the days of Noah, every heart's thought only evil continually.

Easy to check. Would you rather be living now or in 500 AD? And why?

 

[Cameron143]

not so sure..

knowledge has increased, and with it our leisure and bread - but wasn't the same true in Sodom? and their sin was neglecting the poor and needy, and hating the foreigner that sojourned with them.

wickedness will only increase until the cup of His wrath is full, and the last of those He intends to save, turns to Him. i do not believe the purpose of the church is to redeem the world, but to endure it until our Bridegroom snatches us away. when He appears again it will be in judgement - how else will this be the case, unless things progressively get worse?

in the end of days, the while world will follow someone who pretends to be righteous, but who sets himself above God. that's not "improvement" apart from it being more honest; sin openly laid bare, instead of disguised. but this is shameless idolatry - - it will be as in the days of Noah, every heart's thought only evil continually.

End times deals with the end of the old covenant. That's what Revelation is about.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

To claim that the law is abolished or that only parts of it matter is to misrepresent Christ and His gospel. Acts and the epistles explain salvation through Christ, yes, but they never give license to disobey Jesus’ commands. Obedience and love are always linked.

In short, this is a serious error: it twists Scripture, removes Jesus’ authority, and misleads people. Every follower of Christ must measure truth by His words, not by later interpretations or church traditions certainly not by your lies. Grace does not nullify obedience; it empowers it.

Obedience is to the words of Christ, not Moses. Peter under grace, not the law, called the law of Moses an unbearable yoke.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:10-11​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

End times deals with the end of the old covenant. That's what Revelation is about.

Revelation is about the creation of the new heaven and earth. The earth must be cleansed of wickedness before the new is established. That will not happen gradually or progressively, but with a hammer, and in the scale of time, quickly.

 

[mailmandan]

You seem to always plug obedience into faith.

Here is an example.

"They could fully belong to God’s people, not by ethnicity, but by faith and obedience."

It is as if faith and obedience is one word.

Your cannot be saved unless both are evident?

What you are saying is a simple misunderstanding of the text.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9, means that no one is saved by faith and obedience together.

Your obedience has nothing to do with that gift of salvation.

Why do you mention faith and obedience together?

Works-salvationists will typically plug obedience/works into faith, which culminates in salvation by faith and works. Let the boasting begin! The message that we here from vassal is not salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) but salvation by faith + obeying the 10 commandments which culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works" which is a "different' gospel.

Roman Catholics also plug obedience/works into faith. I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a Christian forum
who affirmed that salvation is by grace through faith, not works, but then after we discussed it further, what that Roman Catholic actually believed was that we are saved by grace through faith "infused" with works and then those works become meritorious towards receiving salvation, which is not what we read in Ephesians 2:8,9.

Here is what that Roman Catholic said to me: We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments etc..

Mormons also plug obedience/works into faith. In the book of Mormon in 2 Nephi 25:23, we read - For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all WE can DO. In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you.

Also, in Romans 4:16 of the so called 'Inspired Version' of the bible that Joseph Smith wrote, we read - Therefore, ye are justified of faith and works, through grace..

Other translations of Romans 4:16 read:

Therefore, it is of faith, that it might be by grace.. (KJV)
Therefore, it is of faith that it might be according to grace.. (NKJV)
For this reason, it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace.. (NASB)
For this reason, it is by faith so that it may be by grace.. (NET)

Not the same message as the so called 'Inspired Version.'

Work-salvationists will basically take faith AND works then wrap them BOTH up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Jesus never said God’s commandments kill. He said the opposite. He said, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, KJV). He also said, “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63, KJV). So whatever Paul meant in 2 Corinthians 3, it cannot mean that the Ten Commandments themselves cause death, because Jesus said they lead to life.

Jesus explained where death really comes from. He said that what defiles and destroys a person comes from the heart, from sin, not from God’s law (Matthew 15:18–20, KJV). The commandments do not create sin. They reveal it. Just like light does not cause dirt, it only shows where the dirt is.

When Paul speaks about “the letter” killing, Jesus already explained this idea in a much clearer and safer way. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they obeyed the law outwardly, but their hearts were far from God. They had the words written, but not the love, mercy, and obedience of the heart (Matthew 23:23, KJV). This is what kills. Not the commandments, but using them without repentance, faith, and love.

Jesus also taught that the Spirit does not cancel the commandments. The Spirit helps us keep them. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15, KJV), and then promised the Spirit who would “bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you” (John 14:26, KJV). The Spirit reminds us of Jesus’ words. He does not erase them.

So when Paul speaks of a “ministry of death written on stones,” he is speaking about what happens when people face God’s holy law while remaining in sin, without repentance and without the Spirit changing the heart. The law stands holy and good, but sinful man, when resisting God, meets condemnation. The death comes from sin meeting holiness, not from holiness itself.

Even Paul admits the commandments were “glorious.” Glory does not come from death. Glory comes from God. The problem was not the covenant, but the people’s hearts. Moses himself said Israel had uncircumcised hearts (Deuteronomy 10:16, KJV). Jesus confirmed the same problem many years later.

Jesus never taught a gospel of “letter versus Spirit.” He taught truth with the Spirit, obedience with love, commandments written on the heart. The Spirit gives life because He brings people back to obedience from the inside, not because He removes God’s law.

So the correct understanding, in the light of Jesus’ words, is this:
The commandments of God are holy, good, and life-giving. Death comes when sinful hearts resist them. The Spirit does not replace the commandments. He gives us the power to live them in truth and love.

Anything beyond that would place Paul above Jesus, and Jesus Himself warned us not to do that. “The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, KJV).

People are confusing the consequence of sin- the wages of sin is death- which is breaking the Ten Commandments 1John3:4 James2:11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7 and why called the 'ministry of death" because its a sin that leads to death when breaking. Rom6:23 if not ministering from God's Spirit. The law of God is not the issue, they are holy, just and good Rom7:12, they just reveal sin when breaking, the issue is the weak flesh of men, who are not allowing the ministry of the Spirit to help us keep the commandments of God John14:15-18 and overcome sin.

 

[vassal]

People are confusing the consequence of sin- the wages of sin is death- which is breaking the Ten Commandments 1John3:4 James2:11 Mat5:19-30 Rom7:7 and why called the 'ministry of death" because its a sin that leads to death when breaking. Rom6:23 if not ministering from God's Spirit. The law of God is not the issue, they are holy, just and good Rom7:12, the issue is the weak flesh of men, who are not allowing the ministry of the Spirit to help us keeping the commandments of God John14:15-18.

Our beloved apostle Peter Was right when he wrote:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these thingsbefore, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Our beloved apostle Peter Was right when he wrote:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these thingsbefore, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Yes, its not Paul's blood that saves us, we are not baptized in the name of Paul.

1 Cor 1:12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Why its important to reconcile Paul to Christ, not the other way around.

 

[memberofthebride]

Yes, its not Paul's blood that saves us, we are not baptized in the name of Paul.

1 Cor 1:12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Why its important to reconcile Paul to Christ, not the other way around.

Comment:

As I have not been involved with main stream Christianity, I did not understand, until I came to this site, that there were two "camps", and that the majority follow Paul, a man and Not Christ our God.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Comment:

As I have not been involved with main stream Christianity, I did not understand, until I came to this site, that there were two "camps", and that the majority follow Paul, a man and Not Christ our God.

It seems some are perfectly fine having Paul contradict himself and Jesus Christ which I believe why there is such a huge warning about misunderstanding his writings that comes with a salvation warning. Its not coming from a place of wanting to understand what is the will of God, which He expressed both written and spoken by Him directly. Many want the blessings of God without having to follow what God asks. The want justification, not sanctification, which typically means a lifestyle change.

 

[vassal]

Works-salvationists will typically plug obedience/works into faith, which culminates in salvation by faith and works. Let the boasting begin! The message that we here from vassal is not salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) but salvation by faith + obeying the 10 commandments which culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works" which is a "different' gospel.

Here is a reply using only the words of Jesus, in a simple and clear way.

Jesus never taught “faith without obedience.” He always joined faith and obedience together, not for boasting, but for life.

Jesus said:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
Matthew 7:21 (NKJV)​

If obedience were boasting, then Jesus would not have made it a condition to enter the Kingdom. Yet He did.

Jesus also said:

“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Matthew 19:17 (NKJV)​

This was His direct answer when asked about eternal life. He did not say faith alone without obedience.

Jesus made it even clearer:

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
John 14:21 (NKJV)​

And again:

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:15 (NKJV)​

According to Jesus, obedience is not a separate gospel. It is the proof of love and faith.

Jesus warned against removing obedience:

“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:19 (NKJV)​

This is not boasting. This is submission to God.

Jesus also said:

“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do the things which I say?”
Luke 6:46 (NKJV)​

Faith that does not obey Jesus is empty words.

There is one gospel, and Jesus Himself defined it:

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:15 (NKJV)​

Repentance means turning away from sin, not continuing in it.

And Jesus ended with this unchanging truth:

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.”
Matthew 24:35 (NKJV)​

So we stand on His words, not human arguments. Faith and obedience are not rivals. According to Jesus, they belong together, and His words will never pass away.

what i wrote is the truth, Now a choice is set before you, what will you do. continue to stay like your "friends" on the wrong path or turn around and do GODs will and Obey Christ our Lord? Like GOD asked us to do;

“And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!’”
Luke 9:35 (NKJV)

“The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 (NKJV)
​

 

[vassal]

if God considered it right to put the history of the Jewish people in scripture, are we wise to willfully ignore the history of the church?

what histosy of the church church would that be? the church of your denomination?

Comment:

As I have not been involved with main stream Christianity, I did not understand, until I came to this site, that there were two "camps", and that the majority follow Paul, a man and Not Christ our God.

You see the same thing I see.

 

[mailmandan]

Here is a reply using only the words of Jesus, in a simple and clear way....

You did not properly tag my post and your EISEGESIS culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works" which is a "different" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is a message of grace (Acts 20:24) that is to be received through faith. (Acts 15:7-9) The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

The gospel is hid to those who do not BELIEVE. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.