Bringing things to light

[Jordon]

Sin is sin. I know why Catholics differentiate, but they misinterpret the Word.

Thats another valid point to the debate, where by you could possibly be of the minority of Scotland believing that, based on protestant faith declining more than any other faith.

Based on RC faith and theology and the book of Maccabees , that venial sin and mortal sin is different and that this scripture lines up with quotes in the protestant bible, and therefore the book of Maccabees should not have been removed.

 

[Gideon300]

well for any plan to work when buying into drama, it's believed that if you strike with force, force will strike back, and then what you will have is some Catholic belief ruling the land,

It's like take Scotland during the so called transformation they all became Presbyterian, which was influence by John Calvin,.

But now Scotland is believed to believe that in the 2022 census Roman Catholics belief is 13.3 percent of it's people, alot

And only 28.9 percent for the church of Scotland. Alot

Once the church of Scotland protestant was 44.5 percent. The highest since 2000

The highest for Roman Catholic war 15 percent.

So protestant faith has seen the biggest decrease whilst Roman Catholic has stayed steady.

Records from the year 2000 when senses on faith began in Scotland.

Traditional churches such as Lutheran, Methodist, Congregational, Anglican etc. have been in decline for decades. Non denominational, Evangelical, Pentecostal and Charismatic are growing. The church generally is in decline in the West.

I do not consider Roman Catholicism to be Christian. There are believers within the organisation, but RC doctrines are too dependent on traditions of men. Tradition is given the same authority as God's word. When it directly contradicts the Bible (baptismal regeneration, for example) then tradition is wrong.

 

[Gideon300]

Thats another valid point to the debate, where by you could possibly be of the minority of Scotland believing that, based on protestant faith declining more than any other faith.

Based on RC faith and theology and the book of Maccabees , that venial sin and mortal sin is different and that this scripture lines up with quotes in the protestant bible, and therefore the book of Maccabees should not have been removed.

I don't know of any protestant denomination that believes in the distinction that the Catholic organisation states. Sin is sin. The consequences vary, but before God, there is no distinction.

 

[Jordon]

Traditional churches such as Lutheran, Methodist, Congregational, Anglican etc. have been in decline for decades. Non denominational, Evangelical, Pentecostal and Charismatic are growing. The church generally is in decline in the West.

I do not consider Roman Catholicism to be Christian. There are believers within the organisation, but RC doctrines are too dependent on traditions of men. Tradition is given the same authority as God's word. When it directly contradicts the Bible (baptismal regeneration, for example) then tradition is wrong.

it may be that some churches are on the increase presently, but what are they on the increase of, is it the one belief in beliefs that they hold more important, and is that right.

Shouldn't it include all beliefs.

Like the idea we have people just believing sin is sin.

I can show you in the protestant bible, that's not the case.

And in the Catholic bible it's not the case. But yet Maccabees is removed by Protestants

So if you have a grinding concern that people are just commuting any sin thinking all sin is sin, what are you left with.

Tho I understand your saying all sin can be forgiven, but should that validate this next point

But still what's worse, denying an authoritive teaching over a forgiving teaching, when it comes to sinning in the first place ?

So if you get a grinding concern the protessant reformation has removed discipline, could that not be why protestant faith is decreasing.

 

[Jordon]

I don't know of any protestant denomination that believes in the distinction that the Catholic organisation states. Sin is sin. The consequences vary, but before God, there is no distinction.

but yet catholicism still has the highest number of believers world wide.

And it's believed that even during the height of the reformation, that catholicism still had the lead, have to figure, and even with social media there still the largest

 

[CS1]

I

Thanks I appreciate the knowledge, the book of Maccabees mentions praying for the dead, which I'm taking another persons word on it, and maccabees is not in the 66 books of the reformed bible.

But I wonder is praying for the dead in the 66 books of the reformed bible, with out looking I don't know.

I can say there is nothing I see about praying for the dead, yet there is mention of the dead in prayer in the Psalms in context to the person praying who is not dead.

 

[CS1]

Further research says the catholics believe the books they have is the inspired word of God in a deuteronomical sense.

They say the books are inspired on Christian practice before Christ, and considered guided by the holy spirit, Maccabees, which include the Jewish revolt, and the fall out was a Jewish rebellion against the selucid empire, which was rebellion over religion persecution, the people of the selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple, to treat something sacred with disrespect, Like acts of violence, so the Jews rebelled against the selucid empire, out of religious freedom.

The selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple 167 years before christ.

Faith devine providence obedience in the book of Maccabees is said to align with our reformed bible in face of adversity

FYI the RCC also believe the Popes words re Divine and inspired and authoritative. as far as the Maccabees go I do not see them as inspired yet that doesn't mean they have no value in the context of History of Jewish cultural and the Temple. Nothing in them speak of Christ of salvation. but of revolt.

 

[Jordon]

I

I can say there is nothing I see about praying for the dead, yet there is mention of the dead in prayer in the Psalms in context to the person praying who is not dead.

I believe the people are not dead in Catholic purgotry belief in the after life, its people who are saved who are being purified of venial sin. Something along the lines of it can be a painful experience for them, so they pray for them, but do they pray for them to be forgiven to, and if they did would it be like saying forgive them they know not what they do, as venial sin can be something your unaware of.

Sorry for the confusion.

They also believe that purgatory is also part of daily walk of cleansing ones sin through daily surrender.

 

[Jordon]

FYI the RCC also believe the Popes words re Divine and inspired and authoritative. as far as the Maccabees go I do not see them as inspired yet that doesn't mean they have no value in the context of History of Jewish cultural and the Temple. Nothing in them speak of Christ of salvation. but of revolt.

so looking into this further I found out how a Catholics can pray for people in prayer and to be honest I don't even want to post the prayer, my heart feels like it's blasphemy, it's a prayer from a Catholic saint called saint Gertrude, who believes with a shorter prayer 1000 souls could be released from purgatory with a longer prayer and a longer prayer 10000 souls could be released .

Saint Gertrude was a Catholic nun in the 13th century who was quite respected very much, but it's not an actual book in there bible. But I'm unsure if they prayer like that today whether they still use this prayer.

 

[Jordon]

The reason why I ask is because those who see the 66 books of the bible as the Canon of Scripture is based solely on the Person of Christ. That is why all other books were not considered as the Measuring rod by which all Scripture is built upon.

RCC hold to traditional writings as being inspired. That why they have included books from the Apocrypha. And Maccabees.

They books are not aliened with Hebrew writers of the Old and do not speak as Eyewitnesses of those of Christ in the New Testament.

so basically the book of Maccabees was not in the Hebrew cannon of the old testament, but added to the greek old testament

The belief is the Hebrew was more authoritive than the greek.

But the greek is believed just as authoritive because of greek population in Israel, so that's why they used the greek translation in Rome

But however praying for the dead in the greek version wasn't considered a good thing,.

So the question is why is greek so popular,

Marcionism the first ever bible produced which was Also of the greek was banned.

 

[Jordon]

But on the other hand the oldest writings of the new testament is in greek not Hebrew so I guess I need to go figure

 

[Jordon]

FYI the RCC also believe the Popes words re Divine and inspired and authoritative. as far as the Maccabees go I do not see them as inspired yet that doesn't mean they have no value in the context of History of Jewish cultural and the Temple. Nothing in them speak of Christ of salvation. but of revolt.

Fyi the book of Maccabees includes how people make the wrong choices, that go against God's law, and effect a whole community, which is considered to align with Christian faith. On the bases that it shows being faithful in a good ways helps grow a better Christian community.

Just to let you know.

But this is understood more by catholics apparently

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sin is sin. I know why Catholics differentiate, but they misinterpret the Word.

aim certwinly
Not catholic and don’t agree with some of thier beliefs but

“If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a few factors in Gods word that differentiates

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Fyi the book of Maccabees includes how people make the wrong choices, that go against God's law, and effect a whole community, which is considered to align with Christian faith. On the bases that it shows being faithful in a good ways helps grow a better Christian community.

Just to let you know.

But this is understood more by catholics apparently

The whole story of Israel in the ot teaches that repeatedly their law teaches it as well.

It’s just a matter of canonization . Like always with men we disagree about which books were inspired and which weren’t. The Maccabean books for instance during the time period between Malachi which promised the coming messiah with a new covenant and “ Elijah the prophet “ and …. The birth of Jesus and beginning of the gospel

what they are , is Jewish records of what happened during that time period . They don’t belong in the New Testament , and also they aren’t prophetic and carry no message and promise of the messiah so they don’t fit in the Old Testament either . Gods word is always about Christ in some manner even in the ot , the Maccabean books aren’t .

They are most likely true records of events in Jewish history during that particular time period .

Interesting reading and also helps to give some ideas regarding segments in the book of Daniel bit truly they aren’t the same message as the old and New Testament nor the same intent I find some of the things about Antiochus interesting and consider them factual accounts bit definately they just don’t fit with the ot or new

 

[CS1]

I believe the people are not dead in Catholic purgotry belief in the after life, its people who are saved who are being purified of venial sin. Something along the lines of it can be a painful experience for them, so they pray for them, but do they pray for them to be forgiven to, and if they did would it be like saying forgive them they know not what they do, as venial sin can be something your unaware of.

Sorry for the confusion.

They also believe that purgatory is also part of daily walk of cleansing ones sin through daily surrender.

there is no place in the Bible that speaks of purgatory. Jesus said Let the dead bury the dead. Those who have died then there is judgement. Hebrews 9:27.

 

[CS1]

so looking into this further I found out how a Catholics can pray for people in prayer and to be honest I don't even want to post the prayer, my heart feels like it's blasphemy, it's a prayer from a Catholic saint called saint Gertrude, who believes with a shorter prayer 1000 souls could be released from purgatory with a longer prayer and a longer prayer 10000 souls could be released .

Saint Gertrude was a Catholic nun in the 13th century who was quite respected very much, but it's not an actual book in there bible. But I'm unsure if they prayer like that today whether they still use this prayer.

again The bible doesn't speak of purgatory.

 

[CS1]

so basically the book of Maccabees was not in the Hebrew cannon of the old testament, but added to the greek old testament

The belief is the Hebrew was more authoritive than the greek.

But the greek is believed just as authoritive because of greek population in Israel, so that's why they used the greek translation in Rome

But however praying for the dead in the greek version wasn't considered a good thing,.

So the question is why is greek so popular,

Marcionism the first ever bible produced which was Also of the greek was banned.

There is nothing in the Greek New Testament Gospels or the Epistles that teach, speak, or show anyone praying for the dead.

Praying for the dead is unbiblical, it is not supported by Scriptures.

 

[CS1]

Fyi the book of Maccabees includes how people make the wrong choices, that go against God's law, and effect a whole community, which is considered to align with Christian faith. On the bases that it shows being faithful in a good ways helps grow a better Christian community.

Just to let you know.

But this is understood more by catholics apparently

Is Jesus the final Authority in scripture when he is speaking yes or no?

 

[Jordon]

Is Jesus the final Authority in scripture when he is speaking yes or no?

Is his word something that is able to bind the conscience as absolute, The Father the son and the holy spirit are all equal, so the whole word is said believed to be the only authority that is absolute in binding the conscience,

Where as people won't answer how how is word able to bind the conscience,

So do you know ?

 

[Jordon]

There is nothing in the Greek New Testament Gospels or the Epistles that teach, speak, or show anyone praying for the dead.

Praying for the dead is unbiblical, it is not supported by Scriptures.

listen I don't even know what purgaotry means,

And as far as ive learnt so far it means to have your sins forgiven to after confession in catholic faith also, and it means to be purified in paradise also.

The praying for dead part, what is that ?

Could you tell me