Show me the ext that says we are saved by "faith alone".
So you’re saying you don’t want respectful conversation but would rather throw around unwarranted assumptions and demands that will prove your point.
Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so there is a direct connection between our salvation and being a doer of the Law of God and the key is to correctly understand what that connection is and is not. We can be a doer of the Law of God for a variety of reasons, so it is important to recognize that the Bible can speak against being required to be a doer of it for incorrect reasons without speaking against being required to be a doer of it for correct reasons. I do not like the question of whether we are saved by faith and works because it does not bring clarify to what that connection is and is not. If I affirm that we are saved by works, then I am not saying that we are required to contribute works towards earning our salvation as the result of our works, but if I deny that we are saved by works, then I am not saying that there is no connection between our salvation and our works. It is not the case that we need to add our works to our faith as faith in Christ were was insufficient for salvation, but rather they issue is that we can embody our faith through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so everyone who is a doer of the same works as James has faith in Jesus and it is by this faith alone that we are being saved.
No I want you to actually listen and support your assertions and not assume you're understanding of scripture authoritative without evidence.
The word is “your”.
Great post. If we have to "...embody our faith through our works..." then by definition faith alone is not sufficient. Its important to know what sufficient means. Faith is essential for without faith works are meaningless for salvation. But a salvific faith kid compelled by works just as James teaches.
If faith must be completed by works in order to save, then salvation is not by faith. It becomes faith plus performance.
If someone is a doer of good works, then the significance of those works in regard to salvation is not that they are part of what they are required to have done first in order to earn their salvation as the result, but rather the the significance of their works is that it is the way to embody their faith and it by that faith alone apart from works done in order to earn their salvation as the result that they are being saved.
Thank you for the correction.
I believe works complete faith like Scripture says. It's not about what I say. And if faith alone is true then there is not need to reveal it. If you claim so then you are tacitly denying faith alone. This is why it's essential for you understand what sufficient means.
Let me get this straight: you want me to ignore the rest of Scripture and defend a position I have not claimed as my own using only a few verses you have cherry-picked?
Can faith exist with without works?
No you don't have that right.
That verse clearly shows that there is a connection between our righteousness and our works, but again saying that Abraham was justified by his works does not clearly show that that connection is and is not. In Romans 2:13 and 4:1-5, Paul said both that only the doers of the law will be declared righteous and that we can't earn our righteousness as the result of our works, so again there is clearly a connection between our righteousness and our works, but the connection is not that we are required to have obeyed the law in order to become righteous as the result. So James was not saying that Abraham earned his righteousness as the result of his works and he was not saying that Abraham just faith apart from doing works, but rather he was saying that Abraham embodied his faith through his works. While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works.
Challenge rejected.
So we are saved by faith alone. You just don’t feel comfortable saying we are saved by faith alone?
Correct. There is no need to reveal faith for it to save, because God sees the heart. It is known to Him before we ever lift a finger. Faith alone saves, and works do not add to salvation. They simply show that faith is real. Our works reveal nothing to God, but they do reveal our faith to ourselves and to others. Neither we nor others are the ones who save us.
No. Someone can be alone and not alone at the same time in different senses, so a couple can be alone apart from the company of others while not being alone apart from the company of each other, or someone can be alone apart from the company of other people while not being alone apart from the company of their pets. I have no problem agreeing that there is a sense that we are declared righteous by faith alone, but I need to clarify which sense that is because there is also a sense that we are not declared righteous by faith alone (James 2:24). In Romans 3:28-31, Paul said that we are declared righteous by faith apart from works and that our faith upholds the Law of God, so we are declared righteous by faith alone in the sense that there are no righteous works that we are required to have done first in order to earn our righteousness as the result but we are not declared righteous by faith alone in the sense that we become righteous apart from becoming doers of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7).
The content of a gift can be the experience of getting to something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have the experience of driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has absolutely nothing to do with trying to have a good enough performance in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather our salvation intrinsically requires us to choose to be a doer of those works through faith because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation.
