The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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Well, here are the words directly from God Himself, not Moses, not Paul on what He asks of His children if we love Him.

The first time this is mentioned is in the Ten Commandments- written by God, spoken by God. So we do not have to guess what His commandments are because the God of heaven literally and personally wrote them out. Exo31:18 Deut4:13

These are all direct Thus saith the LORD'S - God is trustworthy, so if what He asks of us, if we love Him, should be too.

Exodus 20:6
“but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”


Deuteronomy 5:10
“but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.


John 15:10
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

God does not change - He tells us directly what we should do if we love Him. The question is do we love self, more than Him. Will we love God on our terms or how He asks.
How about getting out of the Old Testament and into the new. The law has done its job - if indeed you are born again. I live now by the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The thing about the New Covenant is that it is new. Abraham was approved by God even though the law had not been given. The law is intended to lead us to Christ. If you are still obligated to the Law, then you do not have the glorious liberty of the sons of God.

No, I do not use my liberty as a licence to sin. But neither do I worry about flicking a light switch on the sabbath in case it is work.
 
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What law is Paul quoting? He tells us in the very passage. Paul is not teaching to not only worship God or steal from our neighbor is the law he died to. He is not teaching people to not love God on how God asks us to. Paul is gravely misunderstand, mainly people people never allow the context of the passage to explain itself and instead when we see law always assume its the Testimony of God Paul is teaching against, which would make Paul a god and not a servant of God.
I may as well reason with the stone the law was inscribed on as with you.
 
You confirm your lack of understanding. You really should study your Bible.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19

That means that the law applies to dead people. I'm alive in Christ. I will not be judged by the law. We appear before Christ where our works are evaluated in what is much life a prize giving ceremony. The Great White Throne is where sinners appear.

Before I was saved, I was convicted of my sin. Now I realise that I am a new creation in Christ Jesus, a brand new man, I am the righteousness of God in Christ and I am complete in Him. The Great White Throne judgement determines the sinner's place in hell. The Judgement seat of Christ determines placement in God's kingdom.

Do you not realise that not only are your sins paid for, but you the sinner has been redeemed also? God put an end to you. He gave you new life in Christ. We still have the ability to sin. Escaping every bondage is not so easy. But God no longer sees us at all. We die and our lives are hidden in Christ with God. Colossians 3:3, one of my favourite verses. And I deserved to die. I'm glad that God saw fit to deliver me from my old life. It never did me any good, that's for sure.
Lets look at the context

Gal 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. (the context of this entire passage) 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.

No Return to the Law

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

The works of the law were animal sacrifices for sins. Taking a lamb or goat for the forgiveness of sin - why it was faulty because the lambs and goats never could take away sins- why Jesus had to come. To gain access to the earthy temple for animal sacrifices one had to be circumcised.

At the death of Jesus at the Cross He took this wall of separation away of circumcision- you can see this in Eph 2 and Col 2 by the death of Christ. The Jews were trying to compel Gentiles to get circumcised to hear the gospel and in order to be saved Acts 15:1. This is what Paul was constantly correcting the Jews insistence to continue with animal sacrifices despite Jesus dying for sins on the Cross and all animal sacrifices pointed to Him Heb10:1-15- this was 30+ years later and the Jews still wanted to keep circumcision and animal sacrifices which is bondage because it could never take away sins, but the blood of Jesus could. This is what Paul was correcting, never teaching one person to dishonor God by breaking the Ten Commandments Rom2:21-22 and sinning Rom7:7 being an enmity to God Rom8:7-8.

There are two different laws and sadly without understanding the OT many get these very confused.
 
How about getting out of the Old Testament and into the new. The law has done its job - if indeed you are born again. I live now by the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The thing about the New Covenant is that it is new. Abraham was approved by God even though the law had not been given. The law is intended to lead us to Christ. If you are still obligated to the Law, then you do not have the glorious liberty of the sons of God.

No, I do not use my liberty as a licence to sin. But neither do I worry about flicking a light switch on the sabbath in case it is work.
So that doesn't answer the question to the context that Paul gave us in this very passage. Adding what we want it to say instead of allowing the passage to tell us, is sadly where a lot of people lean on their own understanding instead of trusting in God's word.
 
Well, here are the words directly from God Himself, not Moses, not Paul on what He asks of His children if we love Him.

The first time this is mentioned is in the Ten Commandments- written by God, spoken by God. So we do not have to guess what His commandments are because the God of heaven literally and personally wrote them out. Exo31:18 Deut4:13

These are all direct Thus saith the LORD'S - God is trustworthy, so if what He asks of us, if we love Him, should be too.

Exodus 20:6
“but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”


Deuteronomy 5:10
“but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.


John 15:10
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

God does not change - He tells us directly what we should do if we love Him. The question is do we love self, more than Him. Will we love God on our terms or how He asks.
Thanks. I see you overlook small words. In both Exodus 20:6 and Deuteronomy 5:10 there is the word "and" between the two components. That little word is important.

You also need to demonstrate that when Jesus (in the flesh) says, "My commandments" or "My Father's commandments", He means those given through Moses at Sinai.

Go for it.
 
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The issue of whether followers of Christ should follow his example of what God has commanded is independent of the issue of how to correctly do that. Even if I had no idea how to correctly obey the Law of God, then it wouldn't mean that I was wrong about the fact that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to to it. We can't love instead of following God's instructions for how to love. The source of the Law of God is also God.
Meaningless bafflegab. Learn what "clear" and "concise" mean... and employ them.
 
Thanks. I see you overlook small words. In both Exodus 20:6 and Deuteronomy 5:10 there is the word "and" between the two components. That little word is important.

You also need to demonstrate that when Jesus (in the flesh) says, "My commandments" or "My Father's commandments", He means those given through Moses at Sinai.

Go for it.

Sure. Jesus own words said He did not come to destroy His laws but fulfill. What was He predicted to fulfill- magnify His law Isa 42:21 which means make greater, not smaller.

And He showed examples of this right from the commandments He wrote and spoke Himself Exo20:1-17 Exo31:18 relating thoughts of lust magnifying it with the commandment not to commit adultery, thoughts of anger magnifying it with the commandment to not commit murder, teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:17-30.

Its not that the God of the Bible was not clear- it comes down to our belief in what He says how to love Him- as if only worshipping God is only for the OT and not the NT, or stealing from our neighbor is only for the OT and not the NT when God's righteousness (right doing) Psa 119:172 Isa56:1-2 is everlasting Psa 119:142 its the foundation of His throne Psa89:14.
 
Sure. Jesus own words said He did not come to destroy His laws but fulfill. What was He predicted to fulfill- magnify His law Isa 42:21 which means make greater, not smaller.

And He showed examples of this right from the commandments He wrote and spoke Himself Exo20:1-17 Exo31:18 relating thoughts of lust magnifying it with the commandment not to commit adultery, thoughts of anger magnifying it with the commandment to not commit murder, teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:17-30.

Its not that the God of the Bible was not clear- it comes down to our belief in what He says how to love Him- as if only worshipping God is only for the OT and not the NT, or stealing from our neighbor is only for the OT and not the NT when God's righteousness (right doing) Psa 119:172 Isa56:1-2 is everlasting Psa 119:142 its the foundation of His throne Psa89:14.
"Fulfill" does not in any way mean "magnify". Jesus did both, but He did not conflate them.

"Fulfill" does, however, have the inherent meaning of "make complete" as one "fulfills" a mortgage by making the last payment and leaving nothing outstanding.

Jesus completed the Law, leaving nothing outstanding for those who believe in Him.
 
"Fulfill" does not in any way mean "magnify". Jesus did both, but He did not conflate them.

"Fulfill" does, however, have the inherent meaning of "make complete" as one "fulfills" a mortgage by making the last payment and leaving nothing outstanding.

Jesus completed the Law, leaving nothing outstanding for those who believe in Him.

Jesus was predicted to magnify His law , so I do not see Him failing in His prophecy and this very passage I quoted shows Him doing. I do not beleive we should ignore His warning and teaching Mat5:19. We can always find a place of doubt, its a very dangerous place in my opinion and what caused the fall in the first place. Believing is believing in His teachings, not just hearing them and not doing them Luke6:46-49 belief like faith is not passive, its very active.

I wasn't expecting us to agree and that's OK, God will sort it all out soon enough.
 
Jesus was predicted to magnify His law , so I do not see Him failing in His prophecy and this very passage I quoted shows Him doing so and just ignore His warning and teaching Mat5:19. We can always find a place of doubt, its a very dangerous place in my opinion and what caused the fall in the first place. Believing is believing in His teachings, not just hearing them and not doing them Luke6:46-49 belief like faith is not passive, its very active.

I wasn't expecting us to agree and that's OK, God will sort it all out soon enough.
Red herring. You are changing the subject.
 
The "Jesus keep the Law, so now, I don't have to" excuse is but one concept mankind uses to continue in our sin, "disobedience" and yet thinking that we are "Christian" and fit for Heaven. WRONG !

Are you aware there are TWO covenants, not one: the Old Covenant (OC) and the New Covenant (NC), each with its own respective, complete and separate laws, commandments, stipulations, requirements - they are completely self-contained each within itself with nothing shared with the other - at least not from the OC if read superficially, even though they often use the same words but with different meanings. So, when you say, "keep the law", under the OC, the keeping is a rote legalistic keeping, but not driven by/from the heart, because from/by the law is not from/by the heart - and which is completely different from the law of the NC. With the NC, its own laws and requirements which are kept from the heart by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who has given us a new heart, but not to satisfy legalistic demands. This also includes our Christian morality in daily life and dealings with other people which also are guided by Him. So, we do not have, nor were we given, an excuse to sin. In fact, God places His saved under greater scrutiny regarding their actions than the unsaved. Should He observe us in acts that He disapproves of and are un-Christian like or immoral, He will not hesitate to chastise us in a most unpleasant way, and believe me, He knows precisely what we don't like and will not hesitate to use it in our lives and use it with increasing severity should we not learn quickly enough.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that when we see "law" and "commandment" (along with other words) mentioned in Scripture, we need to consider to which covenant they pertain, because to automatically assume from our ingrained spiritual muscle memory they are the OC, is often incorrect. Sometimes we just have to dig deep beyond the obvious, to find God's true intent for what we are reading.
The keeping the OC law specifically because it is OC law brings no favor with God but instead, judgment.
 
Actually, not everone who says they're Christian automatically receives the Holy Spirit.

The faith must be a genuine saving faith that is willing to repent and obey God for Him to give His Holy Spirit to that person

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

A lot of people hold on to a gospel that says we don't have to repent and obey God, so those people don't actually have the Holy Spirit and is the reason why they can't obey God.

This is fixable though. Just repent and be willing to obey God God will determine whether this is genuine or fake and will or will not give His Holy Spirit accordingly.


🕊
Sure, but every Christian has the indwelling Spirit. And if the Christian is given the Spirit, who is it who produces the obedience. If you say the individual, then you have an individual walking in the flesh obeying God. It follows then that the Spirit is given to produce obedience. And this is the new covenant promise...Ezekiel 36:26-27. God gives a new heart and the Spirit and causes us to walk in His statutes. Obedience is the work of God in us that He produces by giving us new hearts and the Spirit. God clearly enunciates that He is the cause...I will cause you...
 
Everything we do we should do according to the glory of God and His good will. Phil 2:13 1Cor10:31 Before eating a meal we should always give praise and glory by prayer for everything He made for us without us, even a glass of water or orange juice. This leads us back to Creation, when God made everything for us without us, like fresh water and oranges for us and He is the one who sustains us. We should be thankful for large things as well as small things, and trust like He made water and oranges for us, everything else He made for us Mark 2:27 and asks of us is for our own good. God is the Creator of water and oranges and everything else, and man has gone away from worshipping our Creator the way He asks Exo20:6 why we are reminded to worship only Him who made heaven and earth and everything in it Rev14:7 which points us right back to the 4th commandment Exo20:11 which keeping the Sabbath is a memorial to God's creative and redemptive power. To rest in God's completed works, so He can restore and refresh us through His sanctification Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves Isa66:17 we need God.
Well, you did better than I thought you would, but all you stated could be simply saying grace before drinking the juice. Surely there is more to drinking a glass of orange juice than merely grace.
 
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The "Jesus kept the Law, so now, I don't have to" excuse is but one concept mankind uses to continue in our sin, "disobedience" and yet thinking that we are "Christian" and fit for Heaven. WRONG !
Has anyone here actually presented this idea as their own? Or are you just dragging garbage into the discussion to throw at your opponents?
 
The issue of whether followers of Christ should follow his example of what God has commanded is independent of the issue of how to correctly do that. Even if I had no idea how to correctly obey the Law of God, then it wouldn't mean that I was wrong about the fact that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to to it. We can't love instead of following God's instructions for how to love. The source of the Law of God is also God.
You don't understand the new covenant. Christians don't obey because they follow the example of Jesus. At best, this would only produce outward conformity. Read Ezekiel 36:26-27. Why does God say people will walk in His statutes? Could it be because He has provided a new heart and given His Spirit. The source of obedience is God, and not man. God causes His people to walk in His statutes.

Now maybe you will focus on Him and how He does this rather than trying to follow an example that one will inevitably fail miserably at anyway.
 
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Sure, but every Christian has the indwelling Spirit. And if the Christian is given the Spirit, who is it who produces the obedience. If you say the individual, then you have an individual walking in the flesh obeying God. It follows then that the Spirit is given to produce obedience. And this is the new covenant promise...Ezekiel 36:26-27. God gives a new heart and the Spirit and causes us to walk in His statutes. Obedience is the work of God in us that He produces by giving us new hearts and the Spirit. God clearly enunciates that He is the cause...I will cause you...


Like I said, not everyone has the Holy Spirit.

People who actually have the Holy Spiitit don't just talk about it and then discourage other people to obey God ""because those are works 9f the flesh".

People who have the Holy Spirt are also not afraid to talk about specific commands that God writes on our hearts that we're to obey and encourage others to obey God too to express our love for God in the way He wants to be loved, knowing that this pleases the Lord.


Your group is always so vague at what exactly it is your obeying, that that it just sounds like you actually don't, since none of you can bring yourselves to say exactly what it is you're obeying


🕊
 
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Aren't all Christians indwelt by the Spirit? Does He leave you when you sin?

Again, fine platitudes, but who is more responsible for you walking in the Spirit? You? Or the God at work in your?

Can you tell me how to obey the command to do all to the glory of God in the drinking of a glass of orange juice?
No Cameron not all Christians that is certain.
 
You don't understand the new covenant. Christians don't obey because they follow the example of Jesus. At best, this would only produce outward conformity. Read Ezekiel 36:26-27. Why does God say people will walk in His statutes? Could it be because He has provided a new heart and given His Spirit. The source of obedience is God, and not man. God causes His people to walk in His statutes.

Now maybe you will focus on Him and how He does this rather than trying to follow an example that one will inevitably fail miserably at anyway.
In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so obedience to God has never been just about producing outward conformity, otherwise God would not have disdained it when His children honored Him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him (Isaiah 29:13). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His law. Again, the source of the Law of God is God and it was not given as something to be outwardly obeyed on our own apart from Him. It is contradictory to think that we should focus on following Christ instead of His example or to think that we should trust in God instead of in His instructions.
 
Like I said, not everyone has the Holy Spirit.

People who actually have the Holy Spiitit don't just talk about it and then discourage other people to obey God ""because those are works 9f the flesh".

People who have the Holy Spirt are also not afraid to talk about specific commands that God writes on our hearts that we're to obey and encourage others to obey God too to express our love for God in the way He wants to be loved, knowing that this pleases the Lord.


Your group is always so vague at what exactly it is your obeying, that that it just sounds like you actually don't, since none of you can bring yourselves to say exactly what it is you're obeying


🕊
Jesus taught for us to teach others to keep the commandments and not break the least of these commandments

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I do not see a scenario where someone is encouraging someone else not to obey what God says because the Spirit is saying something different. That's not the spirit we want Isa8:20

Obedience to the commandments work together with His Spirit. We first have to make the decision to want to obey God, He than gives us the Spirit to enable us to do so.

John 14:15 If you keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
 
You don't believe devotion is a higher form of obedience than duty?

Cold, joyless duty is an abomination to God. Read Isaiah 1. God does not accept it. It is merely drawing nigh with one's lips while the heart is far from Him.

Can you show me how to obey the command to do all to the glory of God in the drinking of a glass of orange juice?
what is with you and your idiotic glass of orange juice, why to you bother people with such questions, trying to lighten the mood?, these times we live today are the last days, be serious for once and ask me a real question and then will answer.