IDK, you tell me who the "tribulation saints" are, those who have kept the testimony of Christ.
Are You Rapture Ready?
- Thread starter Edward429451
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I believe you're waging psychological warfare with nothing of substance to offer.
What does your jibberish do to erase the simple fact that the bible says the 144,000 are the firstfruits?
These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. (Rev. 14:4)
Tribulation saints are individuals who convert to Christianity during the seven-year Tribulation period, after the Rapture has occurred. Described in Revelation 7 and 20, they are a diverse multitude from all nations who refuse the Antichrist's mark, often facing intense persecution and martyrdom for their faith.
I know you want to believe the Body of Christ God will leave for His wrath, and I think not.
Genesis 18, 25Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
Your 'substance' is the obsession that God is going to put His children through His Great Trib/Wrath along with the wicked. Go for it.
Genesis 18, 25Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
Such "mass conversion" is contrary to the warnings of end time apostasy, not only will the unsaved be deceived, many in what you assume as "Body of Christ" will abandon their faith, as the disciples abandoned the Master in the Garden of Gesthemane.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. (Matt. 24:9-12)
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (1 Tim. 4:1-4)
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:9-11)
My "obsession" is God's prophecy which you refuse to accept by conflating the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Rev. 12:17)
As a matter of biblical fact, God did provide a safe haven to shield the "woman" from the great trib, her identity is up to your doctrine. I believe that's Israel, twelve stars are the twelve tribes of Israel in Joseph's dream.
Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:6)
The woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. (Rev. 12:14)
The FIRST (and second) resurrections are the fulfillment of Dan. 12:2 and Jn. 5:28-29. "Some" and "those", plural.
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29)
Not at all, as Father chooses after the age of grace ends by Daddy
So, sorry you misunderstood me. God took on the wrath through of sin and death through Son for all that choose sincerely to believe, will be at rest as many are not at rest yet, Hebrews 4:9-13
Thank you to Father and Son as Won. Nt ever to be taken fro granted fro any self gain Thanks for asking
Blessing or Judgment?
The Rapture is a moment of great joy and celebration. It is a moment when Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom, welcomes His bride. It's understandable that the texts about the Rapture do not speak of judgment. Some Rapture texts even speak of believers escaping the judgment and wrath of God. In contrast, the texts about the Second Coming do mention various judgments. For example, Matthew 25 revealed the judgment of the nations, and in Revelation 19, the Lord Jesus revealed the judgment of the Antichrist and his followers.
The Rapture is a moment of great joy and celebration. It is a moment when Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom, welcomes His bride. It's understandable that the texts about the Rapture do not speak of judgment. Some Rapture texts even speak of believers escaping the judgment and wrath of God. In contrast, the texts about the Second Coming do mention various judgments. For example, Matthew 25 revealed the judgment of the nations, and in Revelation 19, the Lord Jesus revealed the judgment of the Antichrist and his followers.
Lol
Jesus DESCRIBES THE SETTING.
NORMAL LIFE
Everyday life
Buying and selling commerce
Planning for the future
NOW
Let's see if that pretrib setting fits your doctrine for the rapture timing.
Your theorized setting at the rapture;
No commerce without the mark.
Nobody planning marriage
No wedding ceremonies.
No normal life
You serious?????
It is YOU GUYS that invasion shtocking up food and end times supplies, and running from Cave to cave with the antichrist chasing you.
However, in the pretrib rapture Model, all that fits perfectly as it will be normal life and the other items on the list that Jesus made at the preTribulation rapture.
In fact the white horse coming has most everything destroyed.
Hard to wiggle out of clear scripture
Lol
We all see they are firstfruits.
That is beyond obvious.
You alluded to they are firstfruits of the resurrection.
You did not know Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection.
So now you are on some rabbit trail.
Lol
Then accuse others of gibberish.
You still don't get it?
Rev 14:14 is a gathering...PERIOD.
IT IS A GATHERING.
1 Thes 4 IS A GATHERING OF THE DEAD IN CHRIST...FOLLOWED BY THE LIVING.
Hello...dead in Christ FIRST, THE LIVING AFTERWARDS
Unbelievably simple.
YOUR MODEL HAS REV 14:14 Gatheing before the dead in Christ.
SO, EITHER PAUL OR GOD IS WRONG.
No worries.
So far no postribber has understood that no brainer.
...or so embarrassed they position made up rabbit trails all around it.
You quoted Blade but it looks like you are talking about my message. So I am going to proceed as such.
To be as brief as possible. I find when you read the letters to the churches it is formatted. So that when you read one you can expect a placement, like for example if you overcome what reward you will receive. That message is the same place in each letter.
In the middle of each of them Christ tells them he is coming. Depending if they need to repent or hold fast there may be a little variance but the format or structure is there.
So as he visits each letter goes to each church it does so in a order. Ephesus to Laodicea was a Roman postal route and the route started in Ephesus and ended in Laodicea. The churches are addressed in the same order of the route.
I propose that if you spotlight the Christ is coming part of the letters you can see the progression as he starts with I am coming to when he addresses Philadelphia he says behold I come quickly.
Then when he addresses Laodicea he says behold I stand at the door. He is here, I believe this is the spot of the rapture. Prior to cell phones back in the day for us that are older when we called a friend to say I am headed over. When we would get there we go knock on the door to announce our presence.
I believe that is what is going on. Christ uses the same picture and symbolism to say he is here in the gospels.
Luke 12:35-37
35Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
Of course once they open he comes in and they eat. That is the same message to Laodicea that Christ gives the same picture and symbolism.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
The way we have been taught is that this either Christ knocking on the heart of unbelievers to come in and fellowship with them. Or that a rebellious church has locked Christ out and he knocking to come in to fellowship with them. This does not fit with the context of the whole of the letters were Christ is saying he is coming.
It does not fit theologically because Christ is the head of the church and in Rev 1 he says that he stands in the midst of the churches. So there is no way that we are locking him out and he knocking can be correct. Also the Father draws men to Christ that is plain. When he was here he did not go knocking door to door.
So I find the sup with him really clears it up what we are told is spiritual fellowship the Greek says is literal eating of physical food.
The Greek word is deipneó: to dine, to eat a meal, to sup.
It is only in 3 other places than Rev 3. One mentions to sup. Luke 17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
The other is by Paul and the proper way to have communion or the Lord's supper or table. I Corinthians 11:25-26 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
The other is the Last supper same scripture I used to point out that Christ said he will again have a Passover meal with the saints in the kingdom. Luke 22:15-20
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Zephaniah 1:2-3
2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. 3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.
Verses 6-8
6 And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor inquired for him. 7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. 8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. Which this the tribulation the time of wrath.
Verse 14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
So who are the tribulation saints those who come to Christ during the tribulation. Who will spread the message? I believe it will be those whom the Lord says have backslidden in verse 6 those who have turned back. When you look at the messages to the churches Christ states who will go through tribulation and those who will be asleep when he comes.
So I believe that of these those who backslide and have to go through it like the letters say. Some will repent and come back and be those who will share the gospel.
In verse 7 you can see that God is bidding guest and in verse 7 we see that it is to the Lord's sacrifice. The Lord's sacrifice we can find in Exodus 12 where God is laying out the Passover how to be kept, the meaning of, he is speaking about the Passover.
Verses 25-27
And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service. 26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service? 27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
The Lord calls the Passover his sacrifice the same thing his guest will be invited to he pours out his wrath in Zephaniah. The same meal I believe we will eat again with Christ per Luke 22. So will it be eaten on the date of actual Passover or will he come on Passover. I have no clue nor would I even try to guess cause how does time work in heaven since it has no time, sun or moon.
So anyway this is part of what the pretrib rapture is I would find. Other things as well that will complete a full picture for another time. So anyway thanks for letting me share how I see it and part of the reason for the rapture and why it will happen before the tribulation.
How does "SHEAF" ERASE FIRSTFRUITS?????
Jesus is the firstfruits.
You actually think the wording of;
"...and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest....."
Is erased by the word "sheaf"?
That dynamic of "waving" is tied into the entry of Jesus on a donkey into Jesursalem. Where palm branches are waved, which ties into the innumerable number in heaven....also waving palm branches...which is another study in types and shadows.
Way too deep for you.
"" I don't compare in times with the flood, Jesus did that..""
Ok. I get it.
"Before the flood" is omitted
The One taken /one left is omitted.
Of course it is.
You are omitting practically all the components of the analogy?
You actually think at Jesus's coming, right before his coming, there is no buying and selling????
Jesus was confused.?
Maybe Jesus got it wrong and Noah was gathered into the ark AFTER the flood.
No matter what, either you, or that bible is way way off.
I don't know...you guys have Matt 24 as your main pillar, and yet none of Jesus words in his Noah analogy make any sense at all.
Maybe pretend there is a flood, ( oh but wait, you do not know what Jesus is pointing to in his use of "flood")
And after the flood, there is a rapture?
So in "before the flood," one is taken, one left behind,. And you are saying half the world is saved/half wicked, and the wicked are raptured before the flood, and the righteous half earth's population are crowded on the boat, ....?????
I suppose the righteous are then raptured after the flood, since the rapture is AFTER the trib.
But wait, you guys say the rapture is at the second coming.????
So after the flood, Noah is taken???
The Lord comes after the flood to take Noah someplace?
You ever actually taken an honest look at what you guys do to a simple analogy????
Sigh....your doctrine butchers the virgin parable analogy also.
I was responding to your snarky mess and your attempts to paint yourself as superior, and my "lesser than you" inability to have a civil debate.Hi psalm, I'm not a postribber, I'm not offended by scripture, I'm not superior, and I'm not a Mister.
You're 0 for 4, might want to stop swingin'.
Seriously though, I'm not big on trib. I believe in it of course, but it's not something I'd go to the mat over unless I really thought the other person was willing to have a good-faith discussion. It's clear from your posts that you are not into that, which is fine. But it's also fine that I don't want to waste my time watching your face turn purple. I'm sure you understand.
Really, I only posted here because I saw a post-tribber acting inappropriately. And then I saw a pretribber () do something similar, so I posted at them too (because I like to be fair, you are welcome
).
And then I saw @faithlife ask an honest question, so I answered it because she is a sweet lady bearing the fruit of the Spirit, so I knew she could handle a good-fairh discussion.
Arguing endlessly I'm just not into, though I appreciate @Edward429451 premise and reason for starting the thread. Always good to be ready, no matter when He comes!
Ciao!
Pure nonsense.
I have never " mixed it up " with you in end times discussion. Instead you see me PUSHING BACK on members here that simply can not go " concept vs concept".
Then do a drive by on me pointing out some goofy defiencies.
Ahem...on my person, nothing on substance.
Then turn purple when you get called out on your silly personality conflict.
....and still...you are so busy: putting me in my place personally , uh. Yes I don't see any productive future in addressing end times with you, it will degress into your many issues.
SAD that you look at members here through such critical baloney.
It's really interesting about the dining part. Thank you so much for this. I'm going to study it further!
🕊