Loss of salvation???

[Mem]

She really does like herself....

That is true.

And, it is unwarranted.

Supercilious is the only word I have for it.

 

[Genez]

This is what the loss of salvation folks do. Gods discipline and correction won't work. He has to toss believers in the Lake of fire. There is no other way. .......Make light of His discipline.


And have you(@Toknow ) completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

Toknow?
Really means?

To "No!"​

You're always on trial....

Before those in denial. ​

.​

 

[Mem]

Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor and he would have treasure in heaven, and "then come, follow Me."

Hebrews 11, with the Chapter Heading: Faith and Assurance, is demonstrative of those who have treasure in heaven.

In reference to Enoch, scripture says, "...he was commended as one who pleased God (Heb 11: 5b)."
And the following verse explains, "And without faith it is impossible to please God...(Heb 11: 6a)."

By faith, Joshua walked around the walls of Jericho
By faith, Rahab welcomed the spies
And the chapter concludes, "These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect (Heb 11:39-40)."

 

[Genez]

Supercilious is the only word I have for it.

It is a pseudo edification complex of the soul. Wood, hay, and straw.

And, edification complex is a structure we build within our heart by seeking and learning sound doctrine.
By comprehending, believing, and applying it to our life. It is what Paul referred to as building with gold, silver, and precious stones.

​

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, ​

straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be ​

revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work ​

which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, ​

he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

 

[Genez]

And @Mem thinks I'M condescending!
Guess he hasn't been around long enough.


You'll have to do your own unravelling.

Heck... I am not going to bother.

Your technique has limited life.
Like some names we see no more posting here.

 

[Kroogz]

And @Mem thinks I'M condescending!
Guess he hasn't been around long enough.


You'll have to do your own unravelling.

You done did it for us.......Just in this one post.

 

[sawdust]

Silly me.

I always have the idea that we're discussing believers on here.

You said that spirituality and morality are two distinct states.

THEN

you said that one cannot be spiritual without being moral.

WHAT CONFUSION!!

Can't you ever respond to a post without your passive aggressive snide remarks?

If you can't understand the difference between spirituality and morality and recognise people can be moral without being spiritual, that's on you.

 

[Kroogz]

Can't you ever respond to a post without your passive aggressive snide remarks?

If you can't understand the difference between spirituality and morality and recognise people can be moral without being spiritual, that's on you.

You know as well as I do.....We could follow a devote Jew,Mormon,catholic and fill in the blank for a year and nary find a fault.

Superb people. Upstanding citizens. Protesting at every abortion clinic. Feeding the poor. Pay more taxes than required. Hug more than anyone else. Lash their flesh. Abstain from meat. Abstain from sex. Abstain from the living.


And it means SQUAT( filthy rags/menstrual rags) if we are not filled and walking in the Spirit.


And correct me if I am wrong. If we believe we can lose salvation......It is all dirty rags. The Spirit testifies with our Spirit that WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD.

 

[Genez]

Can't you ever respond to a post without your passive aggressive snide remarks?

If you can't understand the difference between spirituality and morality and recognise people can be moral without being spiritual, that's on you.

Spoiled brat syndrome...

 

[Genez]

You know as well as I do.....We could follow a devote Jew,Mormon,catholic and fill in the blank for a year and nary find a fault.

Superb people. Upstanding citizens. Protesting at every abortion clinic. Feeding the poor. Pay more taxes than required. Hug more than anyone else. Lash their flesh. Abstain from meat. Abstain from sex. Abstain from the living.


And it means SQUAT( filthy rags/menstrual rags) if we are not filled and walking in the Spirit.


And correct me if I am wrong. If we believe we can lose salvation......It is all dirty rags. The Spirit testifies with our Spirit that WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD.

Those who think a Christian can lose his salvation?
Have not read the contract.

​

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, ​

whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. ​

Therefore, honor God with your bodies." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20​

​

​

They mistakenly think that we are being leased by God, with the option to buy?
God does not work that way.

You are not your own; you were bought at a price. ​

They do not understand the nature of God.

 

[Kroogz]

Those who think a Christian can lose his salvation?
Have not read the contract.

​

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, ​

whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. ​

Therefore, honor God with your bodies." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20​

​

​

They mistakenly think that we are being leased by God, with the option to buy?
God does not work that way.

You are not your own; you were bought at a price. ​

They do not understand the nature of God.

Exactly.

 

[Kroogz]

​

​

They mistakenly think that we are being leased by God, with the option to buy?

I hears what you says.

That is going to be plagiarized by me. Hopefully by others as well!

 

[Kroogz]

OK

So then you agree that we are to do good works?

And you do not believe in greasy grace, easy believism.

This is good to hear.

It's easy and greasy to go down the wide path of destruction......just follow the Catholics,Mormons and every other religion on the planet.

Be good. Live moral lives. Give lots. Fight for the moral majority. Don't break laws. ALWAYS stay as humble as you are........Just don't rely on Christ and His finished work.......Because That is the ONLY way.

 

[TrustandObey]

I don't know what you mean,

It's a simple question, only six words long. Are you not aware of the difference?

There are two fundamental sources of knowledge: 1) what we learn from others, and 2) what we learn by experience. For instance, my school teacher says that Paris is the Capital of France. If I trust the teacher, then I take his or her word for it. On the other hand, I can also look up the information on a map, or I might go there on vacation to see for myself.

How does this even remotely address the question?

God gives us firsthand knowledge about our status and our destiny.

Firsthand knowledge from God??? When did this happen? How would you describe the experience?

Was the experience physical or metaphysical?

We know we are sheep after God tests our faith to the limit of our endurance, and when we endure, this is proof that our faith will never fail.

I thought the "proof" was the firsthand knowledge given to you by God.

Do you happen to speak in the language of angels? I bet you do.

 

[TrustandObey]

You're trying to dodge the force of Jesus' words in John 10 by turning His personal promises into vague group statements, but the text won't let you. Jesus doesn't say ""the group of sheep hears My voice,"" He says MY SHEEP hear MY voice, I KNOW THEM & THEY follow Me, & I GIVE THEM eternal life & THEY shall NEVER perish & NO ONE will snatch THEM out of My hand (Jn 10:27–28).

You have absolutely no reason to inject your name into a pronoun without it being written to you personally.

This should go without saying. This is how language works.

BTW, the Mormons also claim to know who the "other sheep" are in John 10:16. Would you like to guest who they are?

 

[mailmandan]

It's easy and greasy to go down the wide path of destruction......just follow the Catholics,Mormons and every other religion on the planet.

Be good. Live moral lives. Give lots. Fight for the moral majority. Don't break laws. ALWAYS stay as humble as you are........Just don't rely on Christ and His finished work.......Because That is the ONLY way.

Jesus Christ is the only way. (John 3:15-18; 10:9; 14:6) Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

 

[studier]

You can see and discern a brother dying a sin onto death.....

Know by knowing how the brother lived.
Know by how he refused to get with sound doctrine.
And, kept getting worse and worse, to the point of dying.

It does not mean you do not care for your brother who is dying.
It is God's way of telling us to back off and remove the burden to pray from ourselves....
And, rest in the Lord.

So, the sin unto death is refusing to get with sound doctrine?

Where does sound doctrine take us?

1John5:16:

• There are several different views of what the sin pros death is or may be
• Although thinking we have it right may be assuring, it's a highly debated concept and the different views IMO remain worthy of consideration.
• One of the things that concerns me is that I don't see it as a simple attachment to 1Cor11:30 anymore. It may have some connection, but IMO it seems more intense than God putting to sleep as divine discipline of His children.
• John is dealing with a lot of issues in 1John - as he's ending he's still dealing with sin & with knowing Christ vs. being of the world - he ends with guard yourselves from the idols
  • I'm not so sure the sin pros death here doesn't have to do with falling into the false teaching of those who John is dealing with, not remaining in Christ as John has commanded and instructed, and ultimately getting into a false Christology and Hamartiology that puts one back into being a part of the world in the evil one.

 

[Roger316]

It's a simple question, only six words long. Are you not aware of the difference?

How does this even remotely address the question?


Firsthand knowledge from God??? When did this happen? How would you describe the experience?

Was the experience physical or metaphysical?


I thought the "proof" was the firsthand knowledge given to you by God.

Do you happen to speak in the language of angels? I bet you do.

If by "metaphysical" you mean spiritual or inward, then yes — it was that kind of experience. A test of faith isn’t just an inward feeling or spiritual moment. It’s a real-life situation that God tailors to the individual. The outward circumstances and the inward struggle work together. The test fits the person — it’s designed to reveal and refine their particular faith.

When someone hears “test of faith,” they often imagine:

• an internal struggle
• doubt
• fear
• spiritual wrestling

Those are real, but they’re only half the picture.

Biblically, a test of faith is always enacted through concrete circumstances — events, pressures, losses, hardships, decisions, relationships, timing, and providentially arranged situations.

It’s not merely psychological. It’s not merely metaphysical. It’s situational.

Think of how Scripture presents it:

• Abraham’s test was not Job’s.
• Job’s test was not Peter’s.
• Peter’s test was not Paul’s.
• Paul’s test was not the Thessalonians’.

Each test fits:

• the person’s calling
• their weaknesses
• their strengths
• their stage of life
• their temperament
• their vulnerabilities
• their future purpose

This is why James says the testing of faith produces endurance — not generically, but in you.

 

[Roger316]

You can see and discern a brother dying a sin onto death.....

Know by knowing how the brother lived.
Know by how he refused to get with sound doctrine.
And, kept getting worse and worse, to the point of dying.

It does not mean you do not care for your brother who is dying.
It is God's way of telling us to back off and remove the burden to pray from ourselves....
And, rest in the Lord.

studier has put his finger on John's message in chapter 5. The main subject is Prayer and what we can expect from God. The good news is that we can pray for other believers and expect God to answer in the affirmative, except in the rare case when a brother has sinned a sin "unto death."

The situation seems to go something like this: a believer comes to an elder for counseling. The believer is struggling with sin and in need of encouragement. As long as the brother is alive, there is hope that God will hear the prayers of the brother and the elder. If the brother failed to overcome his sin before his death, John writes, he has no promises from God for that situation.

 

[Roger316]

So, the sin unto death is refusing to get with sound doctrine?

Where does sound doctrine take us?

1John5:16:

• There are several different views of what the sin pros death is or may be
• Although thinking we have it right may be assuring, it's a highly debated concept and the different views IMO remain worthy of consideration.
• One of the things that concerns me is that I don't see it as a simple attachment to 1Cor11:30 anymore. It may have some connection, but IMO it seems more intense than God putting to sleep as divine discipline of His children.
• John is dealing with a lot of issues in 1John - as he's ending he's still dealing with sin & with knowing Christ vs. being of the world - he ends with guard yourselves from the idols
  • I'm not so sure the sin pros death here doesn't have to do with falling into the false teaching of those who John is dealing with, not remaining in Christ as John has commanded and instructed, and ultimately getting into a false Christology and Hamartiology that puts one back into being a part of the world in the evil one.

I agree with your observation that John's focus in that verse is on prayer, specifically what we can expect from God when we pray for each other. In the context, John asserts that our faith overcomes the world and he also asserts that if we pray according to God's will, he will do what we ask because we are asking for something he already wishes to do.

The way I read it, John is suggesting that the strong in faith can pray for the weak in faith and expect a positive result. However, John curbs our expectations with regard to those who have died among us if their struggle against the world was left unresolved when they died.