Two category's that must be kept separate JUSTIFICATION - SANCTIFICATION

[GWH]

Thats not astute it's buffoonery. You're suggesting that Jesus can't give us his flesh to eat and blood to drink in the form of bread and wine while they retain their physical properties.

Now when Jesus says, Amen Amen I say to you ....what does that mean?

No I am saying that the RC doctrine of transubstantiation is ridiculous.
Jesus' Amens means flesh and blood should be understood metaphorically.
He only need to say it once for me to believe it, but apparently he needs to keep on saying it
to convince you to quit drinking the RC kicking against the goad.

 

[Nedsk]

OK, let's look at this logically.
First, I would say if thats what your heart is telling you to do, then do it. Nobody's got everything right.
But here's the problem, how are you going to find His flesh and blood to fulfill what your heart is telling you to do?

Let's be clear it's what my hearts telling me to do because that's what Jesus said. I showed you the words.

As to your question, how am I going to find what Jesus is telling me to do? Paul takes care of that. Jesus did too at the last supper. What do you think the early Christians were doing?

 

[Nedsk]

No I am saying that the RC doctrine of transubstantiation is ridiculous.
Jesus' Amens means flesh and blood should be understood metaphorically.
He only need to say it once for me to believe it, but apparently he needs to keep on saying it
to convince you to quit drinking the RC kicking against the goad.

No it doesn't because he is directly replying to people who asked, how can this man give us his flesh to eat. Amen amen I say to you means, what's I am about to say is true (look up what amen means) unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood...

It's the bold ignoring of things you don't like thats most distressful

 

[Watchman22]

Let's be clear it's what my hearts telling me to do because that's what Jesus said. I showed you the words.

As to your question, how am I going to find what Jesus is telling me to do? Paul takes care of that. Jesus did too at the last supper. What do you think the early Christians were doing?

OK, your catholic. I was brought up Catholic, went to Catholic school for 9 years. Loved being the alter boy every chance I could.

So you are leaning on the fact that a priest has the gift to really change the bread and water into the literal flesh and blood of Christ. Two questions: How can someone, (a priest) do something that remarkable when they have no basic understanding of Faith and how it's applied to result in
the receiving of the Holt Spirit?

Second: when you take communion, has it ever tasted like real flesh and real blood?

 

[Nedsk]

OK, your catholic. I was brought up Catholic, went to Catholic school for 9 years. Loved being the alter boy every chance I could.

So you are leaning on the fact that a priest has the gift to really change the bread and water into the literal flesh and blood of Christ. Two questions: How can someone, (a priest) do something that remarkable when they have no basic understanding of Faith and how it's applied to result in
the receiving of the Holt Spirit?

Second: when you take communion, has it ever tasted like real flesh and real blood?

Am i Catholic? You're working on assumptions. Very dangerous but you don't seem to care.

I notice too we've shifted from Scripture to me and Catholicism which is part of the assumptive game plan of "bible believing" Christians. And it you're going to continue saying buffoonish things I'll treat you like the buffoon you're being. Is that how we want to proceed?

Paul says to the Corinthians when speaking about eating and drinking the cup of the Lord he says, "For a person who eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eating and drinking judgment on himself".

 

[Watchman22]

Am i Catholic? You're working on assumptions. Very dangerous but you don't seem to care.

I notice too we've shifted from Scripture to me and Catholicism as of its part of the assumptive game plan of "bible believing" Christians. And it you're going to continue saying buffoonish things I'll treat you like the buffoon you're being. Is that how we want to proceed?

Paul says to the Corinthians when speaking about eating and drinking the cup of the Lord he says, "For a person who eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eating and drinking judgment on himself".

I have been taught in detail about the partaking of the elements.

Do they taste like real flesh and real blood?

 

[Nedsk]

I have been taught in detail about the partaking of the elements.

Do they taste like real flesh and real blood?

If you were a Catholic it's unlikely. They don't catechise very well.

So i see you've decided you prefer to be treated like a buffoon. Okey dokey

 

[Watchman22]

If you were a Catholic it's unlikely. They don't catechise very well.

So i see you've decided you prefer to be treated like a buffoon. Okey dokey

Right, they don't.
So it would be likely that the partaking of the elements, His flesh and blood is done like GWH is saying, metaphorically.

If you let yourself understand it's metaphorical, would it be any less valuable to your faith life?

Would it be less important to you if the elements aren't real flesh and blood?

Remembering Him by the partaking of communion is about Him , not us.

 

[Nedsk]

Right, they don't.
So it would be likely that the partaking of the elements, His flesh and blood is done like GWH is saying, metaphorically.

If you let yourself understand it's metaphorical, would it be any less valuable to your faith life?

Would it be less important to you if the elements aren't real flesh and blood?

Remembering Him by the partaking of communion is about Him , not us.

Not catechizing well isn't the same as wrong. Please tell me you understood that. Lie if you have to.

Why would I let myself understand a lie? Ive pointed out how Jesus isn't speaking metaphorically and yes it would be immensely less valuable

Yes because that's not biblical

No one has said otherwise.

 

[GWH]

No it doesn't because he is directly replying to people who asked, how can this man give us his flesh to eat. Amen amen I say to you means, what's I am about to say is true (look up what amen means) unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood...

It's the bold ignoring of things you don't like thats most distressful

Ned, what I just posted to you on another thread also applies to this discussion:

Regarding my suspicion that you were brain-washed by RC to believe in transubstantiation,
please realize that I confess being brain-washed by my SBC upbringing to believe in perseverance.

As I read the Bible seeking answers to various questions, I learned that the P in TULIP contradicts GW,
so I changed my belief to agree with God rather than kick against that goad, just as I hope God will free you to do."

LIC, GWH

 

[Watchman22]

Not catechizing well isn't the same as wrong. Please tell me you understood that. Lie if you have to.

Why would I let myself understand a lie? Ive pointed out how Jesus isn't speaking metaphorically and yes it would be immensely less valuable

Yes because that's not biblical

No one has said otherwise.

You didn't address the elephant in the room.

The ones doing the transubstantiation don't have a correct understanding of faith and how it's fulfilled that results in receiving the spirit of Christ. If they do their keeping it to themselves. I've asked 3 priests in the past if they know anything about the Greek word pisteuo, and they said no.

How can someone in that state perform such an awesome feat?

When I was at my bottom in 1987, and of course I went back to my Catholic school to ask the priest for help. He told me to go to AA. He saved my life retrospectively, but something like addiction should be easier from one who can fulfill transubstantiation. .

 

[Nedsk]

You didn't address the elephant in the room.

The ones doing the transubstantiation don't have a correct understanding of faith and how it's fulfilled that results in receiving the spirit of Christ. If they do their keeping it to themselves. I've asked 3 priests in the past if they know anything about the Greek word pisteuo, and they said no.

How can someone in that state perform such an awesome feat?

When I was at my bottom in 1987, and of course I went back to my Catholic school to ask the priest for help. He told me to go to AA. He saved my life retrospectively, but something like addiction should be easier from one who can fulfill transubstantiation. .

What elephant? That you don't care what Jesus actually said?

But you have a correct understanding of faith? I'll.ask you again for evidence that your understanding of faith is authoritative. Oh that right you can't. I forgot.

First a priest doesn't work on his own behalf he's acting in-persona Christi

Your past is irrelevant to me.

Let's try an experiment. Lets say for a half an hour or more you're talking to a group or people about not robbing banks. But then those people say, why is this guy telling us to rob banks. What would your response be? Would you imagine they were actually listening to you if they asked them question?

 

[Nedsk]

Ned, what I just posted to you on another thread also applies to this discussion:

Regarding my suspicion that you were brain-washed by RC to believe in transubstantiation,
please realize that I confess being brain-washed by my SBC upbringing to believe in perseverance.

As I read the Bible seeking answers to various questions, I learned that the P in TULIP contradicts GW,
so I changed my belief to agree with God rather than kick against that goad, just as I hope God will free you to do."

LIC, GWH

The only brain washed one here is you because somehow someone wasn't able to convince you jesus said stuff he didn't actually say but of course you're right. When I was a we had a neighbor who thought he was an admiral in the Navy. He was certain of it just like you are about this. He was mentally ill.

 

[Watchman22]

What elephant? That you don't care what Jesus actually said?

But you have a correct understanding of faith? I'll.ask you again for evidence that your understanding of faith is authoritative. Oh that right you can't. I forgot.

First a priest doesn't work on his own behalf he's acting in-persona Christi

Your past is irrelevant to me.

Let's try an experiment. Lets say for a half an hour or more you're talking to a group or people about not robbing banks. But then those people say, why is this guy telling us to rob banks. What would your response be? Would you imagine they were actually listening to you if they asked them question?

I never told you what to do or not to do.
I never said what you practice is right or wrong.
I shared with you the truth about faith and faithing, you didn't recognize it.

All I've done here is ask legit questions. I know they put you in a corner, but if you had the right answers, you could have gotten yourself out of that corner. Name-calling and disrespectful replies should only bolster my foundational concerns about you and your understandings.

We're not gaining any ground here, maybe someone else can give it a try.

 

[Nedsk]

I never told you what to do or not to do.
I never said what you practice is right or wrong.
I shared with you the truth about faith and faithing, you didn't recognize it.

All I've done here is ask legit questions. I know they put you in a corner, but if you had the right answers, you could have gotten yourself out of that corner. Name-calling and disrespectful replies should only bolster my foundational concerns about you and your understandings.

We're not gaining any ground here, maybe someone else can give it a try.

If you have to claim you put me in a corner then you've already failed.

If you've been telling people not to rob banks and they ask, why is this guy telling us to rob banks how would you reply?

 

[Watchman22]

If you have to claim you put me in a corner then you've already failed.

If you've been telling people not to rob banks and they ask, why is this guy telling us to rob banks how would you reply?

Rediscover how to be a learner. From something or somebody.

 

[Watchman22]

If you have to claim you put me in a corner then you've already failed.

If you've been telling people not to rob banks and they ask, why is this guy telling us to rob banks how would you reply?

Amen = so be it.

 

[Nedsk]

Rediscover how to be a learner. From something or somebody.

Why can't you answer the question? Jesus was talking metaphorically according to you but they ask, how can this man give us his flesh to eat? So either Jesus wasn't very clear or they weren't listening. Or maybe Jesus was quire clear and they listened very well. But Jesus says, Amen Amen I say to you unless you eat the the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you do not have life within you. He doesn't say eat bread or drink wine he says flesh and blood which refers back to verse 51, "...and the bread I will give is my flesh for the life of the world"

 

[Nedsk]

Amen = so be it.

Very good, then Jesus is saying, so be it, so be it, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have no life in you. In other words it's true, if you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood you're dead. Just like faith without works is dead, a believer who doesn't eat the flesh of the son of man and drinks his blood has no life in him.

 

[GWH]

The only brain washed one here is you because somehow someone wasn't able to convince you jesus said stuff he didn't actually say but of course you're right. When I was a we had a neighbor who thought he was an admiral in the Navy. He was certain of it just like you are about this. He was mentally ill.

I once was brain-washed, but God graced me with sufficient freedom to escape the snare of Perseverance/TULIP dogma
and believe whatever is true (John 8:31-36, Gal. 5:1). Hallelujah!