Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[HealthAndHappiness]

O.k., it looks like there is some merit to this. If that is the case, I don't have much in terms of any counter points. I would be curious to what a SDA would say, since I got nothing in defense.

Here is a site that sorta points out some more concerns...

Embarrassing Failed Prophecies

Failed prophecies made by SDA Prophet Ellen G. White about the return of Christ

www.nonegw.org

Thanks for your time to respond.
When I have time I'll look at more source material.......to a point. The woman wrote 40 books, over 5,000 thousand periodical articles, had over 2,000 visual or oral paranormal experiences, most of which were with supernatural entities, angels, Jesus.

SDA Fundamental Belief #18
..."As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction and correction."

It sounds like one fundamental SDA belief is that she was inspired of God. So their authority is not only from the Bible but from the teachings of Ellen Gould White.
I'm sure someone will set me right on this but on the surface, that's exactly what it sounds like.

 

[kinda]

Thanks for your time to respond.
When I have time I'll look at more source material.......to a point. The woman wrote 40 books, over 5,000 thousand periodical articles, had over 2,000 visual or oral paranormal experiences, most of which were with supernatural entities, angels, Jesus.

SDA Fundamental Belief #18
..."As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction and correction."

It sounds like one fundamental SDA belief is that she was inspired of God. So their authority is not only from the Bible but from the teachings of Ellen Gould White.
I'm sure someone will set me right on this but on the surface, that's exactly what it sounds like.

It appears the SDA church views the Bible as the authority, and Ellen White as a prophet. So, I don't see anything wrong with that, until Ellen White is proven as a false prophet, which hasn't been proven in my eyes. I'm undecided.

So, I would appreciate, if people posts claims on Ellen White, that they be accurate, or your spreading lies. Isn't the truth is what Christians should be looking for??

John 14
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

SDA Fundamental Belief #18
..."As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction and correction."

2 Timothy 3:16
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It sounds like one fundamental SDA belief is that she was inspired of God. So their authority is not only from the Bible but from the teachings of Ellen Gould White.
I'm sure someone will set me right on this but on the surface, that's exactly what it sounds like.

Kinda, she claimed that entities, angels and Jesus spoke to her.
Are her volumes of writings inspired or Not?

 

[kinda]

Predictions of Ellen G. White

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/read/articles/155

Civil War

"James and Ellen White were invited to a church dedication on Sabbath, January 12, 1861. While there, Ellen White had a vision and saw that war was about to break out and that several of the families in attendance would lose sons in the war. The Civil War broke out April 12, 1861. Years later, a church member confirmed that her sad predictions regarding the loss of sons had come true.2"

So, this website is SDA, I mean this is their testimony. Like I said, this topic could take years. I mean who is gonna sift through all the writings, and give an account of her prophecies. I think this bit is left for the SDA church.

 

[kinda]

Unfortunately for those who are against the SDA Church, SDA members who were born and raised in the faith, probably know the Bible better than you. lol

I'm not kidding, if you look at the responses by SDA members, they are extremely knowledgeable, and know their Bible. This is another reason why I'm drawn to this church.

That alone is an amazing testimony. Once again, people should admire the SDA church, rather than try find error. I would say, compare the testimony of the SDA church, than compare your church. Seriously, SDA is a fantastic church. I'm not saying, it's perfect by any means, but incredibly knowledgeable believers.

 

[Inquisitor]

Unfortunately for those who are against the SDA Church, SDA members who were born and raised in the faith, probably know the Bible better than you. lol

I'm not kidding, if you look at the responses by SDA members, they are extremely knowledgeable, and know their Bible. This is another reason why I'm drawn to this church.

That alone is an amazing testimony. Once again, people should admire the SDA church, rather than try find error. I would say, compare the testimony of the SDA church, than compare your church. Seriously, SDA is a fantastic church. I'm not saying, it's perfect by any means, but incredibly knowledgeable believers.

Investigative Judgement is a doctrine in the SDA.

The Investigative Judgment, that is, Jesus is currently examining the lives of believers to determine who is saved.

The Investigative Judgment, a second phase of atonement began in 1844, according to Ellen White.

Jesus established a divine atonement for our sin on the cross at Calvary, and that was a one time event for all time.

Hebrews 10:12
But He, having offered one sacrifice for sin for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

1) Why then did Jesus begin a second phase of atonement in 1844?
Was the first atonement which perfected every Christian for all time, not good enough?

2) How can any Christian have an assurance of salvation from their sin in Jesus Christ. If we
are currently being investigated, to determine our eligibility?

3) If a Christian needs some unknown level of obedience to qualify for heaven. What happened to grace?
Salvation then becomes a conditional battle based purely on our obedience. In other words, salvation
is not a free gift at all. You will earn your salvation by strict obedience to the teaching of Ellen White (the prophet).

The SDA doctrine of the Investigative Judgement of Christianity is in direct opposition to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 5;24
Whoever hears my word and believes does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Christianity is not about undergoing judgement it's the opposite, we are not judged.

 

[mailmandan]

Investigative Judgement is a doctrine in the SDA.

The Investigative Judgment, that is, Jesus is currently examining the lives of believers to determine who is saved.

The Investigative Judgment, a second phase of atonement began in 1844, according to Ellen White.

Jesus established a divine atonement for our sin on the cross at Calvary, and that was a one time event for all time.

Hebrews 10:12
But He, having offered one sacrifice for sin for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

1) Why then did Jesus begin a second phase of atonement in 1844?
Was the first atonement which perfected every Christian for all time, not good enough?

2) How can any Christian have an assurance of salvation from their sin in Jesus Christ. If we
are currently being investigated, to determine our eligibility?

3) If a Christian needs some unknown level of obedience to qualify for heaven. What happened to grace?
Salvation then becomes a conditional battle based purely on our obedience. In other words, salvation
is not a free gift at all. You will earn your salvation by strict obedience to the teaching of Ellen White (the prophet).

The SDA doctrine of the Investigative Judgement of Christianity is in direct opposition to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 5;24
Whoever hears my word and believes does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Christianity is not about undergoing judgement it's the opposite, we are not judged.

Investigative Judgment - SDA Doctrine vs Bible Truth

A careful, Bible-based examination of the SDA doctrine of Investigative Judgment

www.nonsda.org

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Investigative Judgment - SDA Doctrine vs Bible Truth

A careful, Bible-based examination of the SDA doctrine of Investigative Judgment

www.nonsda.org

"3. Whenever one of God's followers commits a sin and asks forgiveness from God, that sin is transferred into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. It remains there until the Investigative Judgment is completed. At the end of time, all the sins of the righteous are transferred from the Sanctuary onto the Scapegoat, who is Satan. Satan then suffers the final punishment for his sins and all the sins of the righteous"

Whatever spirit she channeled this from was NOT the Holy Spirit.

 

[kinda]

Investigative Judgement is a doctrine in the SDA.

The Investigative Judgment, that is, Jesus is currently examining the lives of believers to determine who is saved.

The Investigative Judgment, a second phase of atonement began in 1844, according to Ellen White.

Jesus established a divine atonement for our sin on the cross at Calvary, and that was a one time event for all time.

Hebrews 10:12
But He, having offered one sacrifice for sin for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

1) Why then did Jesus begin a second phase of atonement in 1844?
Was the first atonement which perfected every Christian for all time, not good enough?

2) How can any Christian have an assurance of salvation from their sin in Jesus Christ. If we
are currently being investigated, to determine our eligibility?

3) If a Christian needs some unknown level of obedience to qualify for heaven. What happened to grace?
Salvation then becomes a conditional battle based purely on our obedience. In other words, salvation
is not a free gift at all. You will earn your salvation by strict obedience to the teaching of Ellen White (the prophet).

The SDA doctrine of the Investigative Judgement of Christianity is in direct opposition to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 5;24
Whoever hears my word and believes does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Christianity is not about undergoing judgement it's the opposite, we are not judged.

O.k., I made a post #162 on this topic. I'm far from an authority on this particular point. To be honest, it does seem suspect, but at that same time, it's not out of the realms of possibility. I will glady hand this one off to a SDA member.

I will say this, do you understand the SDA's position, and Bible references, or did you find this tid-bit on the web, and start hammering on it? What website did you use, or this is just from your experience at the church? Let's be real.... I have been to SDA church for about 5 years on and off, and I can tell this topic has NEVER been mentioned, but some how it comes up in this thread right?!?! lol

Bottom line, this one is totally out of my wheel house, I'm handing this one off to someone for a better reply.

 

[kinda]

Here is Doug talking about Investigative Judgement. He says, the reason why so many Christians have a problem with it, is because Christians want to believe, once saved, always saved. Those are his words, not mine.

Here is a comment in the video above..

"Let me just say one thing. I have studied the IJ now for about 13 yrs. I also learned some amazing things. EGW never came up with the Investigative Judgment. Several pioneers from various denominational backgrounds did--Baptist, Congregationalist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. came to this conclusion based on scripture, ALL on their own. At first EGW was confused, so she prayed to God to help her understand it. Later she was given a vision confirming what the pioneers discovered was true"

It looks like Investigative Judgement might got it's start from a Methodist Episcopal preacher?!?!?!


"Josiah Litch (April 4, 1809 – January 31, 1886) was a Methodist Episcopal preacher in the New England region of the United States, who was best known for his connections with the Millerite movement, and for using Bible prophecy to predict a loss of power for the Ottoman Empire."

"Another idea that Litch developed was the idea of a pre-advent judgment. According to Litch, "no human tribunal would think of executing judgment on a prisoner until after his trial; much less God." He began to develop the idea in 1840, but didn't publish until 1841. After the Great Disappointment, some Millerites applied Litch's pre-advent judgment to October 22, 1844, the Millerites' predicted date of Jesus' return. The Seventh-day Adventists later developed this into the "investigative judgment" doctrine."

"Litch was among the last of the prominent Millerites to accept the date of October 22, 1844, proposed by Samuel S. Snow, as the anticipated date of Jesus' return."

Josiah Litch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"As early as 1841, Josiah Litch had advanced the notion that judgment could happen before Christ’s second advent. Citing Hebrews 9:27, Acts 10:42, and 2 Timothy 4:1, Litch wrote:

“Nor is there a text which presents the judicial scene of judgment after the resurrection. On the contrary, the Scriptures can be harmonized on no other principle than that every man’s doom is fixed before his resurrection.”3"

https://atoday.org/the-real-history-of-the-investigative-judgment-doctrine/

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Investigative Judgement is a doctrine in the SDA.

The Investigative Judgment, that is, Jesus is currently examining the lives of believers to determine who is saved.

The Investigative Judgment, a second phase of atonement began in 1844, according to Ellen White.

Jesus established a divine atonement for our sin on the cross at Calvary, and that was a one time event for all time.

Hebrews 10:12
But He, having offered one sacrifice for sin for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

1) Why then did Jesus begin a second phase of atonement in 1844?
Was the first atonement which perfected every Christian for all time, not good enough?

2) How can any Christian have an assurance of salvation from their sin in Jesus Christ. If we
are currently being investigated, to determine our eligibility?

3) If a Christian needs some unknown level of obedience to qualify for heaven. What happened to grace?
Salvation then becomes a conditional battle based purely on our obedience. In other words, salvation
is not a free gift at all. You will earn your salvation by strict obedience to the teaching of Ellen White (the prophet).

The SDA doctrine of the Investigative Judgement of Christianity is in direct opposition to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 5;24
Whoever hears my word and believes does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Christianity is not about undergoing judgement it's the opposite, we are not judged.

The investigation part is ridiculous, as if Jesus is sitting at a desk reviewing records and videos to see who did what. He knows our hearts but yet has to review the evidence. Makes total sense.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

The Bible is the ultimate counselor

I guess that would be true if one demoted the Holy Spirit or doesn’t have the Holy Spirit. Maybe SDA use the demotion option since they give EGW’s interpretation authority. Did Jesus say in John 14 that He would send a book or the Spirit?

 

[kinda]

Here are the other videos on Investigative Judgement...

This video seems to hit on it, according to Doug Bachelor..

 

[SabbathBlessing]

O.k., it looks like there is some merit to this. If that is the case, I don't have much in terms of any counter points. I would be curious to what a SDA would say, since I got nothing in defense.

Here is a site that sorta points out some more concerns...

Embarrassing Failed Prophecies

Failed prophecies made by SDA Prophet Ellen G. White about the return of Christ

www.nonegw.org

Those have already been debunked, they were all either a complete fabrication or taking just one verse from her writings and leaving out the other that provided the context of what she meant. Its misleading at the very least. It starts off with a big untruth- she never once predicted a date for Christ second return. These hate sites against the SDA church are not interested in understanding what really happened, just a narrative they have pieced together. Same as what happens with Scripture.

 

[kinda]

Those have already been debunked, they were all either a complete fabrication or taking just one verse from her writings and leaving out the other that provided the context of what she meant. Its misleading at the very least. It starts off with a big untruth she never once predicted a date for Christ second return.

Well, that is a relief. lol This thread was intended to discredit the SDA church, but I find it interesting to learn about different doctrine.

I mean there should be some form of accountability, if a site or person is making harsh claims against another, but later proven in correct. If there is a continued practice of this, than it shows the heart of the accuser.

I will say it again, SDA gets a bad wrap over the Sabbath, I think that's the crux of the issue. Some news flash for those with that mind set. There are...

7th Day Baptist
7th Day Pentacostal
United Methodist are pro Sabbath
Messianic Jews

Thanks for chiming in SabbathBlessing.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Well, that is a relief. lol This thread was intended to discredit the SDA church, but I find it interesting to learn about different doctrine.

I mean there should be some form of accountability, if a site or person is making harsh claims against another, but later proven in correct. If there is a continued practice of this, than it shows the heart of the accuser.

I will say it again, SDA gets a bad wrap over the Sabbath, I think that's the crux of the issue. Some news flash for those with that mind set. There are...

7th Day Baptist
7th Day Pentacostal
United Methodist are pro Sabbath
Messianic Jews

Thanks for chiming in SabbathBlessing.

Its really an attack on the LORD of the Sabbath- He is the one Lording it. So I would rather be called a cult by a human than a sinner and depart from Me by God.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Well, that is a relief. lol This thread was intended to discredit the SDA church, but I find it interesting to learn about different doctrine.

I mean there should be some form of accountability, if a site or person is making harsh claims against another, but later proven in correct. If there is a continued practice of this, than it shows the heart of the accuser.

I will say it again, SDA gets a bad wrap over the Sabbath, I think that's the crux of the issue. Some news flash for those with that mind set. There are...

7th Day Baptist
7th Day Pentacostal
United Methodist are pro Sabbath
Messianic Jews

Thanks for chiming in SabbathBlessing.

Heres some links that may help

Ellen G. White® Estate: Issues and Answers

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White® Estate: The Truth About "The White Lie"

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White® Estate: Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?

The official Ellen G. White website, Includes online-books and a database of her published writings, an Issues & Answers section, and more. A service of the Ellen G. White Estate., Did Ellen White contradict the Bible over 50 times?

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White and Her Critics

m.egwwritings.org

 

[kinda]

Its really an attack on the LORD of the Sabbath- He is the one Lording it. So I would rather be called a cult by a human than a sinner and depart from Me by God.

That's a scary thought. Wouldn't want to be in that circle of discouraging people, not to keep the Sabbath. lol

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Its really an attack on the LORD of the Sabbath- He is the one Lording it. So I would rather be called a cult by a human than a sinner and depart from Me by God.

Ellen White Expected Christ’s Return in Her Day​

"I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel: 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.'"
—
Ellen G. White
, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 131-132



Sounds like a failed prophecy to me.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

That's a scary thought. Wouldn't want to be in that circle of discouraging people, not to keep the Sabbath. lol

Especially when it is exactly what Jesus Himself warned not to do.

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

God invited everyone to join ourselves to the LORD and serve Him.

Isa 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentiles)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

Such a lovely invitation and people do not realize what they are rejecting. They want to serve God on their terms not His, they want all His blessings on their terms not His Isa56:2

Rev 7:3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

Stay strong my friend! God bless!