If You Were Engaged or Talking About Marriage, Would You Require Your Potential Spouse to Get An STD Test?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

This is a subject I've been meaning to bring up for a while. I listen to a lot of social issue channels, and one of the hot topics has been the soaring rates of HIV infections.

I grew up during the time when HIV was just being discovered, and back then, HIV-infected people were quarantined, given death sentences, and everyone kept their distance -- including doctors and nurses.

Today, from what I've heard, HIV is no longer seen as deadly, but as more of a chronic condition that require intense medical therapy and drug routines that cost thousands of dollars a month. HIV wipes out your body's immune system, leaving it defenseless against even basic illnesses.

And this is just one STD out of the multitudes that are out there. I grew up in Lutheran school, and I'd be willing to bet that no one tries to argue how to get around the "no sex before marriage" rule than a group of hormone-ridden Lutheran teenagers!! Some people thought it was ok to do "everything else", just not "actual sex that could get someone pregnant." (Since teens may be reading this, that's all I'm going to say about that.)

I was listening to a podcast about a whole new crop of STD's that are contracted in all the ways people thought they could do things "safely" "back in my day," without even having "real (baby-making) sex." One patient described terrible symptoms from a disease that she contracted solely through the mouth, and now has severe pain and problems with everything from her kidneys to her bladder and her liver.

I know in a perfect world with perfect Christians, none of this would happen. I grew up watching people preach themselves blue in the face about how real Christians would never do anything that would put them in this kind of situation. But a major part of my journey has been watching the disconnect between what is preached over and over vs. what real people actually do in real life.

I'm at an age in life where most people I meet -- not all, but a good number -- have a history, whether due to age (having experienced more in life,) social norms they were around ("free love" and "hookup culture"), or having a time in their life when they weren't a Christian or weren't practicing the faith. Some are in church every Sunday but struggle with porn and sex addiction.

The ideal Christian community would stand with God in that it's not where one has been, but where one now stands in the faith and obedience to the Lord.

However, actions, even if they were from a past that was left behind, have consequences that can't be swept under the rug.

In (public) college, I was part of a team that aimed to help teach students about the current crop of STD's, including symptoms and life-altering effects, such as sterility and death, as well as how to protect themselves. It was not a religious program, but abstinence was taught as the number one most effective means of protection.

One of the most important things I learned during that time is that STD's can lie dormant in one's system for months or years, or a person can have a low enough viral load that tests will not detect it. In other words, a person can have an STD, but it might not show up in tests for a long time -- and they can still pass it on to another person in the meantime.

During the height of the HIV crisis, I knew someone who, though raised in their family's church, was going through a wild stage, and said they would never get tested -- because they didn't want to know -- and didn't care about spreading it on to others.

I know we are to believe in the concept of trust, but in today's world, I am someone who will always ask for receipts to back up what a person says -- and I won't ask unless I'm willing to show the same receipts.

I had a wonderful doctor for a while (unfortunately, she's moved to another network,) who actually believed me when I told her about my personal history. She asked me, "Why do you always insist on getting these tests done ever year, when you aren't doing anything to put yourself at risk?" And I told her, "Because right now my insurance covers it, and if I met someone tomorrow and we talked about marriage, I want to be able to give him proof of my official medical track record of being in the clear."

If the right person ever comes along, I want the receipts to back up whatever I tell him about myself, whether medical, financial, or in any other area of life. And I would hope he would be able to produce the same to give to me. I'm not asking for perfection. I'm just saying, "Let's get it all out on the table first, then go from there." And I would go with him to get current STD testing for both of us before we got engaged.

But that's just me.

What are your thoughts about this?

* If you meet someone you want to marry, would you require that they take an STD test?

* Would you be willing to take one yourself? Would you want to see a track record of tests, since some things can take months or years to show?

* What would happen if something came up on the tests that would definitely affect your future together?

* If you are married, how did you handle this?

* If you've seen someone else deal with this, what did you observe?

* Parents, what do you teach your older kids (especially those in the dating scene or looking to get engaged) about this topic?


I understand this is a touchy subject that many might not want to answer. Because of this, I'm going to create a poll that will have multiple answers and be ANONYMOUS -- no one can see what you voted. I think it only allows 10 answers, so I'll try my best with the limited choices.

Please come back to this thread and post any other thoughts or answers you didn't see listed in the poll.

Married readers are also welcome to respond, as there will be questions in the poll specifically for you.

I'm hoping to avoid the obvious repetition of things we all know and have heard hundreds of times. We all know what we are and aren't supposed to do as Christians. But not everyone can follow those rules perfectly at all times, and this thread is for the people who know that even the most devout Christians might have stumbles, or might fall in love with someone who was fallen before meeting them.

The big question is, what happens next?

 

[tourist]

I guess that it's a matter of trust. No, I would not have asked a potential spouse to get tested.

 

[RodB651]

If you meet someone you want to marry, would you require that they take an STD test?

* Would you be willing to take one yourself? Would you want to see a track record of tests, since some things can take months or years to show?

* What would happen if something came up on the tests that would definitely affect your future together?

In this day and age, I think it's a great idea to do so. I know I don't have anything, but I would want her to have proof of that. I hope she would do the same. If either can't get passed this, it's probably best to move on..

 

[cinder]

Assuming that I wanted to marry someone who had been around enough that STD's would be a concern.... I would want him to get tested and I'd be willing to get tested as well (because I too am a believer in the whole never ask someone to do what you aren't willing to do). If I have every reason to believe that he's been completely celibate for the past couple decades then I'd be less concerned about getting tested. But definitely a good question to bring reality crashing hard into overly romantic notions.

 

[seoulsearch]

I understand that there will probably be some very polarizing views on this topic -- which is part of why I brought it up.

Due to several events in my own life, my motto has become, "Trust, but verify." If I love someone enough to commit to them forever, and if they're willing to commit to me, I would think we can ask each other to provide proof of what we say without offense.

When I got married, the literal day after the wedding, I went to surprise my then-husband by cleaning out his car. What I didn't count on was finding out through the receipts in his car that he had $10,000 in credit card debt that he never told me about. This was not a great way to start a marriage.

Later on, I didn't think much of it when a girl we worked with, who had a long-term boyfriend/soon-to-be fiance we all knew, started hanging out at my then-husband's soccer games. Besides, I didn't want to sound like some kind of controlling Jezebel.

Fast forward to the day I came home from a regular day at work and found half the house gone -- he had moved out without telling me while I was at work. "You Are Being Sued For Divorce" papers soon followed in the mail. Long after our divorce was finalized, I found out he had left for this girl.

From now on in my life, I can trust -- but I will also ask them to verify. No, I'm not trying to punish anyone for someone else's actions -- I just took it all as a lesson learned.

So from now on, I will trust what someone says -- but I will also want proof. Even God asks for proof of our faith through actions and obedience.

And I will never ask anyone to verify something about themselves or their lives that I am not willing to verify about myself.

 

[seoulsearch]

In this day and age, I think it's a great idea to do so. I know I don't have anything, but I would want her to have proof of that. I hope she would do the same. If either can't get passed this, it's probably best to move on..

Great insights, Rodney, and I have to say that I agree.


I once worked with a 19-year-old who said he had "only" been with 5 people.

No, I don't think he was a Christian, but let's just say this young man has a few more wild years (literally) under his belt, and racks up a "body count" of 15 people.

Let's also say that in 10 years, when this young man is 29, he becomes a sincerely, Bible-believing Christian -- then falls in love with, and wants to marry your daughter/niece/sister, etc.

What would friends and family advise her to do?


As I said in the first post, I've heard sermons all my life about what Christians "should" and "should not" do, but life doesn't fall neatly into a straight line, and even a lot of Christians are out doing things they shouldn't, but then come back into the fold.

I say this not to condemn anyone -- we all stumble in some way -- but rather, I think these things are important to talk about, because this is how real life works.

 

[engblom]

This is something I have never really thought about. Personally, I know I do not have any STDs because I truly believe that sex belongs only within marriage, and I live accordingly. I have never been sleeping around. I would tell my future wife this, and if she still asked me to take a test, I would do it. At the same time, I would wonder if she is the right one for me. Mutual trust is very important in a marriage, and if she requires a test instead of simply trusting my word, I would be a bit concerned.

I would expect my future wife to be honest about her past. Even if she had a very wild life with hundreds of partners before becoming a Christian, I would want her to be honest about it. What matters to me is that the sleeping around stopped when she became a Christian and if enough time has passed since she became a Christian and there are no symptoms of an STD, I would not ask for a test. I would simply trust that she does not have any.

 

[seoulsearch]

This is why I personally think testing is crucial.

Here are some quick statistics I pulled up from Google:

"A significant majority of sexually transmitted infections are asymptomatic, with estimates suggesting 60% or more of all cases show no symptoms.

Asymptomatic rates for common infections:

* Chlamydia -- It's estimated that up to 80% of woman and 50% of men have no symptoms.

* Gonorrhea -- Up to 50% of women and 40% of men have no symptoms, though some studies suggest rates of 66.7-100% in certain populations.

* Herpes Simplex Virus -- Up to 90% of people with HSV-2 are unaware they have it, as the virus can remain dormant (but can still be passed on to partners.)

* Human Papillomavirus (HPV) - 70-90% of cases are asymptomatic.

* Trichomoniasis -- Over 80% of cases are asymptomatic.


Key Considerations:

* Transmission -- Asymptomatic people can still transmit infections to others.

* Disparities -- In known cases, women's cases are more likely to be asymptomatic than in men's cases.

* Long-Term Impact -- If left untreated due to lack of symptoms, STD's can lead to severe health issues such as pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility, and increased risk for certain types of cancer.

* Testing -- Because symptoms are rare, routine screening is the only reliable way to identify infections.

* Infertility -- STD's are believed to account for about 30% of female infertility and 15% of male infertility in the USA, though this may be higher in global populations."


I also personally expect most statistics to be higher, because they can only be accurately made with known cases, and many people do not know their status, or would choose not to know -- even our small poll in this thread seems to indicate this.

The reason I talk about things I don't hear other Christians talking about is because I grew up among a crowd of people who never think anything bad is going to happen to them. I certainly understand this if they're living out their Christian lives perfectly in some areas.

But my concern is for the people who either haven't lived perfect Christian lives, fall in love with someone who hasn't lived a perfect life, or are raising up a new generation of young people who are finding themselves facing issues like this with no one to turn to.

"Gray Divorce" (senior divorce) is becoming more prevalent than ever, and as seniors (our parents and grandparents) are facing a dating scene they never anticipated, they need our help in navigating this crazy world.

My YouTube feed is full of stories from people who never thought it would happen to them, either.

It breaks my heart, and has had me wondering, thinking, and praying about how to protect our own health, but also convey God's love and hope to others who are suffering in this way.

I truly appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read this thread, answer the poll, or make a post.

Your feedback will be an essential part in how to shape some of my future prayers.

 

[Lynx]

Well I know I personally don't have none of them bugs. There are certain prerequisites for catching them, and I don't meet none of them prerequisites. So I don't really care. Does that test hurt?

If she's never done any of the things to get those bugs, I wouldn't demand a test. If she's been married before, or if she was a wild child before she grew up and settled down, I'd need some proof that she wouldn't give me any bugs. Sometimes sharing is NOT caring.

 

[Lynx]

I think the real question would be, if your future partner's test came up positive... Would you still marry? Which positive results would be a deal breaker and which would be acceptable risks? Would you marry and never have sex?

 

[seoulsearch]

I think the real question would be, if your future partner's test came up positive... Would you still marry? Which positive results would be a deal breaker and which would be acceptable risks? Would you marry and never have sex?

Yes, exactly.

Many years ago, another member posted a thread asking the very same questions you're asking here. I tried to find it, but nothing is coming up in my search. It was one of the most interesting and thought-provoking threads I've read during my entire time here.

And you are right -- those are exactly the questions I want to ask. I may write a follow-up thread.

I remember when Magic Johnson, the basketball player, announced to the world that he was HIV-positive, which was groundbreaking news at the time (in 1991.) His wife, Cookie, was pregnant at the time. According to Google, neither their child nor Cookie has ever tested positive, and she has strongly supported him throughout the years. But one must also keep in mind, these are people who have access to the world's best medical care, no matter how expensive.

Google says the average cost for monthly HIV meds is $2000-$5000 without insurance, but that the cost might be much lower if one has insurance and/or uses generic drugs.

The current crowd here is much smaller, less vocal, and much older (back then, it was mostly 20's and 30's,) so I wanted to see how people felt about the mere notion of even being tested first.

I'm happy to see that people are answering the poll, as I know it's a sensitive issue, but the poll seems to indicate that people might be interested in the topic. Hopefully I'm not wasting anyone's time. If I write a sequel thread, I'll probably do another poll as well.


The reason I mention an older crowd is because I think STD's, especially in the church, are seen as "a young people's problem, and only the misbehaving ones at that." And that's perfectly understandable -- people who have been married to one person all their lives as God commanded obviously have no reason to worry.

But life isn't always linear, and times are a changing.

I used to live near The Villages in FL, which earned the reputation of being The STD Capital of the World. I've heard that's greatly exaggerated, but I don't know by how much. There are lots of people with a lot of extra time there, and many like to party. Dances are held in the town squares regularly, and there's always something going on where people can meet. Some are dealing with divorce or loss of their spouse, and are in very active pursuit of finding someone new.

Many people there travel by golf cart and it's been rumored for years that people will hang different colored bath sponges on their golf carts indicating what they are "into." One color (I don't know which one) is said to be for couples looking to swing with other couples. There was also talk of the infamous "Golf Cart Ride of Shame" in which hungover one-night stands drove back home in their golf carts the morning after.

I also knew a realtor in another retirement town and had just sold a house to a wealthy older gentleman who worked for Apple. He had told her that the house he was buying was for his girlfriend -- and that he owned a second house in another state for his wife.

That's all that was said.

I have no idea if the wife knew about the girlfriend, or if the girlfriend knew about the wife.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

If an STD test result is going to become a decision factor in whether or not to marry a person, maybe the couple really shouldn't get married in the first place. The couple may already know that one or the other has an STD that is permanent.

I guess if one or the other has been sexually active and the test is to see if they've got something that can be treated before marriage, that would make sense to do that.

My bride to be had/has a permanent STD. Since I was already committed to the person that wasn't a roadblock for me. I never acquired the STD. The Lord protected me, thankfully.

 

[seoulsearch]

The reason I mention these things is because I think people mostly believe, "Well, I'm behaving, so I have nothing to worry about."

But they never anticipate that they might someday fall in love with someone who has had a very colorful past.

And in the age range I'm in, very few people have perfect pasts -- most have had at least a few marriages, relationships, or situations that would have put them at risk.

Even the person with the biggest past might become a Christian at any moment -- after all, isn't this what we hope for as Christians? For absolutely everyone to be saved?

And many people with colorful pasts who become Christians will still want to marry.

 

[Kainos]

Screw, nut, then bolt. Funny how an assembly sequence from my day job lends itself as a sexual innuendo about casual hook up culture.

My own vetting of any prospective partner in marriage wouldn't call for an inspection of their sexual health. If I'd reached the chapter of engagement, I would already have evaluated that she'd been washed in the blood of the Lamb, making her clean.

If a woman with an issue of blood was healed, by merely touching the garment of the Good Shepherd (Matthew 9:20-22) Then it seems logical to conclude that the Holy Spirit's residence in the body of a believer, which is a temple of God, would clean up impurities which had marred them as a consequence of their dead (former) way of living.

If I was asked to take a test to corroborate my sexual wellness, I would have no problem doing just that. We each have divergent measures of faith, so it would be worthwhile to put someone's mind at ease.

 

[Levib]

This seems to be something only women care about, almost exclusively. As if, as long as they don’t get an std/pregnant, dozens of failed relationships have no effect on them. No harm, no foul.

Then there’s probably some girl math that says the body’s without std/pregnancy don’t count and a -1 for any curable disease.

Maybe it’s the average loss to men is so infinitely greater than any std.

 

[seoulsearch]

This seems to be something only women care about, almost exclusively. As if, as long as they don’t get an std/pregnant, dozens of failed relationships have no effect on them. No harm, no foul.

Then there’s probably some girl math that says the body’s without std/pregnancy don’t count and a -1 for any curable disease.

Maybe it’s the average loss to men is so infinitely greater than any std.

Absolutely not.

But I can only speak for myself, and not every other woman.

And I haven't had dozens of relationships, so I can't speak on that either.

 

[Levib]

Absolutely not.

But I can only speak for myself, and not every other woman.

And I haven't had dozens of relationships, so I can't speak on that either.

Great, then you won’t take it personal. Ask a touchy question, get a touchy answer.

I feel like the male equivalent of this would be knowing who the exes are and potentially interviewing the ones attached to the worst stories.

 

[seoulsearch]

Great, then you won’t take it personal. Ask a touchy question, get a touchy answer.

I feel like the male equivalent of this would be knowing who the exes are and potentially interviewing the ones attached to the worst stories.

This is an interesting perspective.

Why would it include knowing and interviewing the exes?! I certainly wouldn't want to meet anyone's ex if I could help it, lol.

I'm just curious as to why you believe this topic pertains almost exclusively to women.

I was listening to a social channel on YouTube about an alleged trend in which GenZ women are becoming offended if men want to use preventative measures, seeing it as some kind of insult that that they might be "dirty."

I'm certainly not condoning this in any way, shape, or form -- but it made me feel sorry for the men.

I had a male professor in college (but years ago, in different times,) who advocated that women should be especially protective of their bodies, because, as he put it, "biology dictates that the woman's body is exposed to more foreign cells, putting women at higher risks."

He had a daughter, which I can't help but wonder if this at least partially influenced why he included this important bit of information -- which others seemed to be leaving out (at least, at that time, and in the classes I was in.)

 

[Levib]

This is an interesting perspective.

Why would it include knowing and interviewing the exes?! I certainly wouldn't want to meet anyone's ex if I could help it, lol.

I'm just curious as to why you believe this topic pertains almost exclusively to women.

I have never even heard of a man initiating this conversation. When I hear of this it is 100% a demand from women. All of the men in this thread likewise are against/indifferent about it. This is an example of women valuing different things than men. So for women to say “I’m willing so any man should also be willing”. It is not exactly an equal transaction that it is made out to be and it is presented in a manipulative way, “a man should be willing”. As if there is zero chance any information will not be weaponized later, it wouldn’t be kept private. They would be telling everyone at our job, facebook and town square “just to keep other women safe”.

Plus I think there’s more to this than is said. Asking without asking. I don’t know if it’s some power play or a reason to reject someone before being rejected. It sounds like a reasonable demand, which it is, up until it is presented in this way.

So what is the male equivalent? What is valuable to a man other than what a woman normally wouldn’t provide under any circumstance? It’s just a hypothetical in which most woman would say “no man should ask that”. Women feel they should be able to demand information they want while not disclosing things which they choose not to. In reality no secrets should be kept between two getting married.

I’m not saying men do not care, nor that it isn’t important. I don’t believe it is as reasonable a demand as it is presented. It is mearly one of many things that should be discussed. In the 90’s when they started sexualizing kids in school, they were teaching this lie “just as long as you both get tested nothing bad can happen”.

I was listening to a social channel on YouTube about an alleged trend in which GenZ women are becoming offended if men want to use preventative measures, seeing it as some kind of insult that that they might be "dirty."

I'm certainly not condoning this in any way, shape, or form -- but it made me feel sorry for the men.

Women dislike condoms more than men, always have.

I had a male professor in college (but years ago, in different times,) who advocated that women should be especially protective of their bodies, because, as he put it, "biology dictates that the woman's body is exposed to more foreign cells, putting women at higher risks."

He had a daughter, which I can't help but wonder if this at least partially influenced why he included this important bit of information -- which others seemed to be leaving out (at least, at that time, and in the classes I was in.)

My college Microbiology had a memorable class which we learned some of these differences. That discussion is probably better for one of your Friday Night chat rooms. Just remember, Front to Back.

Women do need to be careful around anything that can cause birth defects, from the time they are born until they are finished having children. This is because women are born with all the eggs they will ever have and they can be damaged inside the body, years in advance. The male counterpart is refreshed like every 3 days…

 

[seoulsearch]

I have never even heard of a man initiating this conversation. When I hear of this it is 100% a demand from women. All of the men in this thread likewise are against/indifferent about it. This is an example of women valuing different things than men. So for women to say “I’m willing so any man should also be willing”. It is not exactly an equal transaction that it is made out to be and it is presented in a manipulative way, “a man should be willing”. As if there is zero chance any information will not be weaponized later, it wouldn’t be kept private. They would be telling everyone at our job, facebook and town square “just to keep other women safe”.

Plus I think there’s more to this than is said. Asking without asking. I don’t know if it’s some power play or a reason to reject someone before being rejected. It sounds like a reasonable demand, which it is, up until it is presented in this way.

So what is the male equivalent? What is valuable to a man other than what a woman normally wouldn’t provide under any circumstance? It’s just a hypothetical in which most woman would say “no man should ask that”. Women feel they should be able to demand information they want while not disclosing things which they choose not to. In reality no secrets should be kept between two getting married.

I’m not saying men do not care, nor that it isn’t important. I don’t believe it is as reasonable a demand as it is presented. It is mearly one of many things that should be discussed. In the 90’s when they started sexualizing kids in school, they were teaching this lie “just as long as you both get tested nothing bad can happen”.



Women dislike condoms more than men, always have.



My college Microbiology had a memorable class which we learned some of these differences. That discussion is probably better for one of your Friday Night chat rooms. Just remember, Front to Back.

Women do need to be careful around anything that can cause birth defects, from the time they are born until they are finished having children. This is because women are born with all the eggs they will ever have and they can be damaged inside the body, years in advance. The male counterpart is refreshed like every 3 days…

Interesting points of view.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

This is yet another time when I miss the old Informative reaction emoji.