The book of Job
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And of course God did not do that willie nillie so to speak.
Job quit walking in faith and started walking in fear and since mankind reaps what he sows... Job got what he feared
Yes because Job quit walking in faith and started walking in fear
You saw where Job says "what I feared came upon me" right? Admitting that he was no longer walking in faith and had gotten in to being fearful?
Well this is WHY Job was in satan's hand and it's WHY God's hedge of protection was removed from Job.
Probably true, and they were also ignorant of the fact that it was Job who caused his own trouble by departing from faith and walking in fear
You think God abandoned Job?
In other words you believe this was all God's fault?
Which is what happens when people quit walking by faith and start walking in fear like Job did
Did you ever see His promises on how to life in victory over the devil?
Or should be just ignore those promises and lay down allowing the devil to walk all over us which is exactly what most Christians have been taught to do?
reneweddaybyday said: That was satan's claim in Job 1:9-10 and God allowed satan some access, but told satan he could not touch Job (Job 1:12).
reneweddaybyday said: In Job 2:6, God told satan Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So satan smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown (Job 2:7).
I believe Job was in so much agony that he thought he was going to die ... that was why he said he was afraid.
reneweddaybyday said: I also believe all of them (Job included) were completely ignorant of the fact that it was satan who afflicted Job.
reneweddaybyday said: I believe God distanced Himself so satan could not accuse God of assisting Job in his time of trial.
reneweddaybyday said: if satan can hoodwink mankind into believing he holds more power than he actually has, that suits him just fine.
reneweddaybyday said: God warns us in His Word that we will suffer affliction and persecution. Some folks don't want to hear that, but not wanting to hear does not change the fact that He has warned us.
When God gives warning, believe Him ... when God gives promise, believe Him ... in times of affliction and persecution hold fast to the promises He has given and stand strong in faith.
In 1 Peter 5, God tells us we are not alone in our suffering ... that we suffer the same afflictions as other believers and we will suffer only for "a while", during which time God is working in us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us.
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God does not do anything "willie nillie".
I believe Job thought he was going to die and, yes, he was afraid of that ... so I do not believe "Job got what he feared" because he lived more than 100 years after his affliction was over.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: In Job 2:6, God told satan Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So satan smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown (Job 2:7).
Job did not state he was afraid until after satan smote him with boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.JayWalker said:
I believe Job was in so much agony that he thought he was going to die ... that was why he said he was afraid.
reneweddaybyday said: I also believe all of them (Job included) were completely ignorant of the fact that it was satan who afflicted Job.
You believe the same as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, and Elihu ... they all claimed Job had sinned and needed to repent. However, what Scripture tells us is that Job was under attack from satan.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: I believe God distanced Himself so satan could not accuse God of assisting Job in his time of trial.
I did not say God abandoned Job. I said God distanced Himself ... iow, God hid His face from Job. Job thought God had abandoned him, but God did not abandon. God gave satan no excuse to make the claim he did in Job 1:10.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: if satan can hoodwink mankind into believing he holds more power than he actually has, that suits him just fine.
satan is cunning and he has duped many folks ... just look at what's going on in this world.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: God warns us in His Word that we will suffer affliction and persecution. Some folks don't want to hear that, but not wanting to hear does not change the fact that He has warned us.
We should not ignore anything God tells us.JayWalker said:
When God gives warning, believe Him ... when God gives promise, believe Him ... in times of affliction and persecution hold fast to the promises He has given and stand strong in faith.
In 1 Peter 5, God tells us we are not alone in our suffering ... that we suffer the same afflictions as other believers and we will suffer only for "a while", during which time God is working in us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us.
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Nope, that is it, nope?
Haven't you ever asked yourself, if God is sovereign, how could Satan have any authority over Job, for good or evil, except God ordains it?
If God is omniscient, didn't God know what was going to happen to Job when he presented Job to Satan? So if God is both sovereign and omniscient, than God alone is responsible for what happened to Job. Or do you have some other answer?
yep.
who is the god of this world? do you know that Adam and Eve were originally given dominion? ... that when they sinned, dominion was delivered to satan?tttallison said:
are you now going to insist that God was responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve?
instead of placing blame for the acts of satan at the feet of God, place blame where blame belongs ... solely at the feet of satan.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.tttallison said:
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Including removing the hedge of protection He had around Job just so He could have some entertainment watching satan attack Job as some keep claiming
So you have not actually studied the Book of Job seeing where Job specifically said what he feared came upon him?
Job 3:25, 26
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
Being in fear like this is actually a sin, when we consider what Jesus says in His Word in Revelation 21:8, and Romans 14:23 among others. This is sowing to the flesh which causes one to reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8) which gives an open door to ‘ol slewfoot to start slapping people around. It’s a major strategic effort on satan’s part to get us out of faith and being in agreement with God over into being scared, living in fear, pleasing the flesh, being carnally minded as this puts us in to opposition to God.
To be carnally minded is death (see Romans 8:6-7), this is being separated from the Lord.
Amos 3:3 - Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Jude 1:17-19
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
***satan seeks to trick us in to being sensual and separating ourselves from the Lord by choking God’s Word out of our lives (see Mark 4:13-20)
As with the situation with Paul...the man tells you what was happening. He was there, so he ought to know!
Job thought by his many burnt offerings, he would provide peace for his sons and get rid of his fears...but it had the opposite affect. Just like today, if you have fear concerning a thing and you constantly go to God asking him to protect you over, and over, and over, and over....all that is, is acting on your fear and not having faith in praying God's promises!
You should pray what God has already said and have faith that He watches over His own Word to honor what He has already said! In Job's case, the burnt offering was intended to cover the sins of his sons, but he didn't think it was because he felt like he had to do this same offering to cover their sins, over, and over, and over, and over....Why didn't he have faith in the offering that he was making according to the instructions and knowledge he had from God at the time?
Job said in Job 3:26 that he didn't rest, or keep quiet...yet trouble came anyway! What he feared, meaning he believed the worst was going to happen...came upon him! He believed that which was bad was going to happen, and so it happened.
That, will open the door wide to destruction!
If he would have turned that around and said "God Almighty has instructed me to do a burnt offering to cover the sin of my family, and I believe that this is God's way of covering sin, therefore I believe their sins are officially covered"....then the hedge of protection around Job never would have been broken down and the devil never would have been able to do what he did!
Because Job was in fear, God had no choice but to inform the devil that Job was already in his control. It's like when Peter saw Jesus walking on the water, and Peter shouted "Lord, if that's you bid me to come"...what could Jesus possibly say, other than "come"??? It was Jesus, so Jesus couldn't lie about it...
Remember, James 1:6,7 says that a man that wavers (goes back and forth) is not to even think he will receive ANYTHING from the Lord! 1 Timothy 2:8 says that men everywhere should pray without doubting.
No, he was afraid his children would curse God and die before satan ever attacked him.
Jesus tells us in His Word that the fearful (those living in fear) will have their part in the lake that burns with fire.
Are you claiming Jesus is in error and living in fear is not sin that sends a person to hell?
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
That is claiming God abandoned Job
Those who are mature in the Lord having become skillful in the Word of righteousness are not ignorant of the devil's devices.
Earlier you said "God hid His face from Job"
As pointed out to you before, I don't think it's the same kind of fear you are thinking of as in Rev 21:8. The words in Job 3:25 are the Hebrew words Strong's #6342. pachad and Strong's #3025. yagor which have more to do with an expression of "dread". For example, Bob woke up Monday morning dreading to go to work. It's more of an expression of saying that you would hate if such-and-such were to happen to you.
Now compare that with Strong's 3373. yare. This is the word used when it says Job "fears" God and shuns evil. Job has his fear properly aligned with the Almighty. Contrast this with Jacob, for example, who had done his brother Esau wrong. When Jacob knew Esau was on his way, he "feared" (yare) Esau. You might say in this moment that Jacob "feared" Esau more than God, unlike Job who feared God and shunned evil.
Did you look into those words at all for yourself?
Furthermore, God clearly states in Job 2:3 that Job's suffering is "without cause". So if you believe Job is suffering because of his supposed "living in fear" that would contradict God's assessment of Job and his right standing before God.
And again, as was pointed out to you before, God Himself states Job's suffering was **without cause** (Job 2:3). You are emphatic that there was a cause, which blatantly contradicts what is written in Scripture.
Remember Job's 3 friends? They also accused Job of having sinned to incur his suffering. What happens at the end? They were proven wrong and God rebukes them.
It obviously was because of Job walking in fear the result was satan had access to attack him that was not available before
Those in dread are not walking in faith, so it's still fear.
If Bob was walking with the Lord he would not be dreading going to work.
In Romans 4:15 the Lord teaches where no law is, there is no transgression.
Most of God's Word had not been taught to mankind yet but that does not mean man does not still reap what they sow at that time.
And again, as was pointed out to you before if Job had the entire Word of God like we have now he never would have allowed himself to start walking in fear because he would have known that sowing to the flesh would cause him to reap corruption
You have two choices here... either Job was in error or you'll have to claim that God wanted to see Job be tormented by satan and if that is the way you are going then you are accusing God of wrong doing
James 1:13
God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man
reneweddaybyday said: God does not do anything "willie nillie".
reneweddaybyday said: I believe Job thought he was going to die and, yes, he was afraid of that ... so I do not believe "Job got what he feared" because he lived more than 100 years after his affliction was over.
Job 3:3, 11, 21-22
3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
21-22 Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures; Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
Job thought he was dying and he longed for death to come so he would no longer suffer.
In our day and time, we are afforded information which was not available during the time Job lived. To insist that Job should know what was never revealed to him is unreasonable on your part.
You are projecting onto Job your own belief in your effort to bolster your claim that everything that happened to Job was due to Job having sinned for which he needed to repent.
Job offering in chapter 1 does not state Job was afraid in the sense you claim.
Job 1:1 states that Job was a man who feared God ... not in the sense of being afraid ... but in the sense of being reverential toward God.
Job 1:5 states that Job offered burnt offerings to God on behalf of his children which was his duty before God as patriarch of the family.
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
satan wanted the hedge removed so he could attack Job. Notice satan did not say God should remove the hedge because Job was in fear which is sin (as you continue to claim) ... no, Job whined that he couldn't get near Job because of God's hedge, but that if he could get to him, Job would turn on God ... which was something Job never did.
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you are the only one posting in this thread who claims God found what happened to Job was "entertainment" ... that God has some sort of "morbid desire to see Job suffer at the hands of satan" while He eats popcorn and gets "drunk on beer" ... as you did here ... shameful, shameful, shameful.
reneweddaybyday said: I believe Job thought he was going to die and, yes, he was afraid of that ... so I do not believe "Job got what he feared" because he lived more than 100 years after his affliction was over.
Beginning in Job 3:3, Job speaks of death ...JayWalker said:
Job 3:3, 11, 21-22
3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
21-22 Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures; Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
Job thought he was dying and he longed for death to come so he would no longer suffer.
All of the verses you refer to were written long after Job lived. Job was alive before the OC was revealed to Moses.JayWalker said:
In our day and time, we are afforded information which was not available during the time Job lived. To insist that Job should know what was never revealed to him is unreasonable on your part.
Only God knew what was in the mind and heart of Job when Job made offering.JayWalker said:
You are projecting onto Job your own belief in your effort to bolster your claim that everything that happened to Job was due to Job having sinned for which he needed to repent.
Job had faith in God which is why he made offering. Prior to the establishment of the priesthood under the OC, the patriarch of the family made offerings to God on behalf of the family. Noah made offerings ... as did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jethro.JayWalker said:
There is no mention of Job being in fear prior to this chapter.JayWalker said:
Job offering in chapter 1 does not state Job was afraid in the sense you claim.
Job 1:1 states that Job was a man who feared God ... not in the sense of being afraid ... but in the sense of being reverential toward God.
Job 1:5 states that Job offered burnt offerings to God on behalf of his children which was his duty before God as patriarch of the family.
Scripture does not support your conjecture.JayWalker said:
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
satan wanted the hedge removed so he could attack Job. Notice satan did not say God should remove the hedge because Job was in fear which is sin (as you continue to claim) ... no, Job whined that he couldn't get near Job because of God's hedge, but that if he could get to him, Job would turn on God ... which was something Job never did.
God lowered the hedge satan complained about ... but hedged Job which restricted satan from killing Job.JayWalker said:
If the Lord Jesus Christ did not want Peter to come to Him, He would have told Peter to stay in the boat.JayWalker said:
Job received abundantly from God once satan was through with his attack.JayWalker said:
there are many, many verses in Scripture which encourage us to pray ... about everything ... without ceasing ... God listens to our prayers. He hears from heaven.JayWalker said:
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Man has had dominion over the earth from Adam unto today. That dominion was restated after the flood to Noah.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Gen 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Satan is prince over the power of the air, and of those that walk in disobedience. Satan is the king over all the children of pride. If Job was here he could explain to you exactly how Satan works in the lives of those who allow him. Job's pride allowed Satan to work as a servant for Job.
Do you have a verse that supports the idea that Satan was given dominion over the earth?
Bing defines "air"
noun
1. the invisible gaseous substance surrounding the earth...
2. an impression of a quality or manner given by someone or something:
(airs)
an annoyingly affected and condescending manner:
At best, Satan is an (heavy) influencer of those that walk in disobedience, as evidenced by their airs.
I missed where this thought is inspired by.
Perhaps a carryover from another poster's insinuation that this reality is missing on me, and the wound is yet fresh enough that I'm finding myself flinching at it.
I guess I should learn that I shouldn't assume that others would assume that what I assume is obvious and remember that only God knows, in spite of anyone who claims to know.
In Genesis 9:1 God says "fear" and "dread" ... not "dominion".
Genesis 1:26, 28
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion [rule, reign] over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
In Genesis 1, the object of mankind was stewardship over the earth.
In Genesis 9, the object of mankind was survival in a world that had changed from pre-flood ... and drastically changed from pre-sin.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.tttallison said:
Jesus did not challenge the devil's claim.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
In these verses, the word "prince" is translated from the Greek word archōn which means a preeminent ruler (chief); a commander with authority (influence) over people in a particular jurisdiction - HELPS Word-studies.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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That's how all the religious people frame the situation with Job as they claim it was God's will for satan to attack Job and it was God that called up satan on the Bat Phone and told him to go over and attack satan but just don't kill him.
No, the shame is on those who claim God wanted Job to be attacked and it was God that told satan to attack him.
I'm mocking the religious people for their false understanding of why this happened that they got from the listening to the devil teaching them thatt God is evil and is involved in doing evil to people. The devil has these people hoodwinked. He's pulled the wool over their eyes and they love it so.
Yes and it's God's Word.
Had Job lived in our time he never would have fallen for satan's trick to be scared and start living in sin.
And yet sowing and reaping has been around since the beginning.
Job kept doing the same sacrifice for his kids over and over because he was in fear and was not in faith.
He sowed to the flesh and reaped corruption.
OK, so we will put you down as one of those religious people who believe it was God's will for satan to attack Job and it was God that called up satan on the Bat Phone and told him to go over and attack satan but just don't kill him.
In other words you believe God caused all this God is the One that cause testings, temptations, and trials to come upon people for not reason whatsoever making what God says in John 10:10 and James 1:13 to be lies.
And due to Job living in fear he kept doing the same sacrifice over and over
Job 1:4,5
and his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It MAY be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Obviously Job had no faith in the sacrifice he had done and out of fear kept doing the same sacrife over and over because he was in fear that his children "may" have sinned. Job was skeered and not in faith.
Read Job 1:4,5 posted above
OK, so we will put you down as one of those religious people who believe it was God's will for satan to attack Job and it was God that called up satan on the Bat Phone and told him to go over and attack satan but just don't kill him.
In other words you believe God caused all this God is the One that cause testings, temptations, and trials to come upon people for not reason whatsoever making what God says in John 10:10 and James 1:13 to be lies.
Yeah so we'll put you down as one of those religious people who believe it was God's will for satan to attack Job and it was God that called up satan on the Bat Phone and told him to go over and attack satan but just don't kill him.
In other words you believe God caused all this God is the One that cause testings, temptations, and trials to come upon people for not reason whatsoever making what God says in John 10:10 and James 1:13 to be lies.
Jesus wanted Peter to come walk on the water with Him which would have required Peter to remain in FAITH
But then Peter stopped being in FAITH and started being moved by his senses and became fearful and that's when he started to sing.
Prior to Peter becoming fearful, He was being upheld by the Power that was in God's Word when Jesus told Peter to "come"
It was God's will that Job remain in faith so God's hedge of protection remained up and satan could not touch him at all.
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
You did notice that Jesus remained in faith His entire life and satan could never touch him... it was only after Jesus made Himself obedient unto death to go to the cross (Philippians 2:8) that satan could attack Him. You should get you some understanding of 1 John 5:18, or not. It's your life.
Then you must be continually befuddled as to why God was not answering Job's prayers and Job's children cursed God and dies and then Job got attacked by satan
I see, you were speaking with regard to the verse in my signature. I'd forgotten how the posts so easily transition the flow of reading straight into the signature. Thanks for taking such care. For a minute, I found myself reticent that I might have to stop caring what you thought, so I had to ask so that I might not take anything for granted. And I can have no doubt, now, that you pay every attention to each word written (but then I'd already gathered that much going by your notes in study).
Is truth an important factor in our studies, or is winning the discussion the most important factor? I love the book of Job, and it reinforces my respect for the bible and it's trustworthiness.
Take another look at the comparisons of what Adam is told, and what Noah is told.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion H7287 over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Adam is told to subdue the earth.
The KJV translates Strong's H3533 in the following manner: subdue (8x), bring into subjection (3x), bring into bondage (2x), keep under (1x), force (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- to subject, subdue, force, keep under, bring into bondage
- (Qal)
- to bring into bondage, make subservient
- to subdue, force, violate
- to subdue, dominate, tread down
- (Qal)
While dominion and subdue are not the same word they bring into view the same thought.
In regards to Satan, he does not have dominion over me. What would your answer be?
reneweddaybyday said: you are the only one posting in this thread who claims God found what happened to Job was "entertainment" ... that God has some sort of "morbid desire to see Job suffer at the hands of satan" while He eats popcorn and gets "drunk on beer" ... as you did here ... shameful, shameful, shameful.
reneweddaybyday said: All of the verses you refer to were written long after Job lived
reneweddaybyday said: To insist that Job should know what was never revealed to him is unreasonable on your part.
reneweddaybyday said: Only God knew what was in the mind and heart of Job when Job made offering.
You are projecting onto Job your own belief in your effort to bolster your claim that everything that happened to Job was due to Job having sinned for which he needed to repent.
I have continuously stated in the page of this thread that satan caused the suffering Job endured.
reneweddaybyday said: Job had faith in God which is why he made offering. Prior to the establishment of the priesthood under the OC, the patriarch of the family made offerings to God on behalf of the family. Noah made offerings ... as did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jethro.
In Job's day and time, sacrifice and offering was practiced by the patriarch of the family. Job lived in a time prior to the establishment of the priesthood in the OC.
reneweddaybyday said: If the Lord Jesus Christ did not want Peter to come to Him, He would have told Peter to stay in the boat.
so which is it? ... Jesus wanted Peter to come? ... or Jesus had no choice after Peter called to him?
reneweddaybyday said: Job received abundantly from God once satan was through with his attack.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; butsave his life.
My Bible says God responded to the request of satan ... not Job.
and newsflash ... satan verbally assaulted the Lord Jesus Christ the entire time He walked on the earth. It was not until He laid down His life that satan was allowed to touch Him physically.
reneweddaybyday said: there are many, many verses in Scripture which encourage us to pray ... about everything ... without ceasing ... God listens to our prayers. He hears from heaven.
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satan's desire was to kill Job. God stayed the hand of satan from accomplishing that desire.
who in this thread has claimed that "God is evil and is involved in doing evil to people" ??? please provide the number of the post submitted which states what you claim.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: All of the verses you refer to were written long after Job lived
newsflash ... Job does not live in our time. Job lived long ago ... prior to the time of Moses.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: To insist that Job should know what was never revealed to him is unreasonable on your part.
Where is your proof that Job offered "the same sacrifice for his kids over and over because he was in fear and not in faith"?JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: Only God knew what was in the mind and heart of Job when Job made offering.
You are projecting onto Job your own belief in your effort to bolster your claim that everything that happened to Job was due to Job having sinned for which he needed to repent.
what you say I believe does not equal what I believe.JayWalker said:
I have continuously stated in the page of this thread that satan caused the suffering Job endured.
reneweddaybyday said: Job had faith in God which is why he made offering. Prior to the establishment of the priesthood under the OC, the patriarch of the family made offerings to God on behalf of the family. Noah made offerings ... as did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jethro.
In our day and time, we pray for our children. I pray for my children all the time ... not because I am in fear but because I love God and I love my children. I also pray for my friends and neighbors.JayWalker said:
In Job's day and time, sacrifice and offering was practiced by the patriarch of the family. Job lived in a time prior to the establishment of the priesthood in the OC.
nope ... Job was a man who reverenced God and loved his family. If he did not love God or his family he would not have cared nor would he have made sacrifice/offering.JayWalker said:
repeating this lie does not turn your lie to truth.JayWalker said:
reneweddaybyday said: If the Lord Jesus Christ did not want Peter to come to Him, He would have told Peter to stay in the boat.
interesting ... in your prior post you indicated that Jesus had no choice but to tell Peter to come when Peter called to Him:JayWalker said:
JayWalker said: Peter saw Jesus walking on the water, and Peter shouted "Lord, if that's you bid me to come"...what could Jesus possibly say, other than "come"??? It was Jesus, so Jesus couldn't lie about it...
so which is it? ... Jesus wanted Peter to come? ... or Jesus had no choice after Peter called to him?
reneweddaybyday said: Job received abundantly from God once satan was through with his attack.
chapter and verse for your claim.JayWalker said:
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; butsave his life.
My Bible says God responded to the request of satan ... not Job.
the Lord Jesus Christ willingly laid down His life.JayWalker said:
and newsflash ... satan verbally assaulted the Lord Jesus Christ the entire time He walked on the earth. It was not until He laid down His life that satan was allowed to touch Him physically.
reneweddaybyday said: there are many, many verses in Scripture which encourage us to pray ... about everything ... without ceasing ... God listens to our prayers. He hears from heaven.
nope ... God makes clear the why's and the wherefores concerning Job's time of trial. I believe God when he says So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown (Job 2:7).JayWalker said:
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Yes and God's desire was for Job to not be attacked at all which is what was happening before Job got in to fear
Remember God put a hedge of protection around Job so it was the Lord's will that Job be protected
It was Job that caused the hedge to come down, not the Lord.
All those claiming God "allowed" satan to attack Job as they blame God
No, Job allowed all this to happen when he quit walking in faith and started walking in fear.
Religion teaches that it was God's will for Job to be attacked which is what the devil teaches them to say
In modern times some Christians get in to fear and unbelief which opens the door for the devil to attack them and then everyone blames God saying it was God's will for those bad things to happen to them which is what the devil teaches them to say
Ephesians 4:27
give no place to the devil
Newsflash, God's Word is still true even before people have opportunity to learn it.
Those not accepting the whole counsel of God won't be able to correctly understand what happened to Job which is of course why false religious teachers claim it was God's will for Job to be attacked by the devil just like they claim it was God's will for Paul to be attacked by the devil
Blaming God for mankind's errors is slow and is what people that are being deceived by the devil do.
Already answered
Job says he was afraid and in fear. Did you not see that?
Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
Yes he did and it was Job that opened himself up to being attacked.
Ephesians 4:27
give no place to the devil
Well if you get over in to fear rather than faith then your prayers would not be heard.
One must pray in faith for the Lord to hear their prayers.
Yes and when he was walking in faith the devil couldn't touch him
But, Job's status changed when he stopped walking in faith and start walking in fear and that's when the hedge of protection went down and satan had access to Job to be able to attack him.
You'll get it one of these days
And so you think God out of the blue for no reason whatsoever just up and decided to remove the hedge of protection He had placed around Job?
Job says he was afraid and in fear. Did you not see that?
Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
And yet your misunderstanding on why Job was attacked is ongoing. Weird.
Yes and since Jesus said come He apparently wanted Peter to come out and walk on the water with Him.
Peter said "if that be you, bid me to come"
Jesus cannot lie and say "No Peter, it's not me" so the result was Jesus saying "come on out here boy and walk on the water with me!" (that part of course is a paraphrase but true none the less)
And your Bible does not say it was God's will for satan to be able to attack Job.
If it was God's will, then He never would have put up the hedge of protection around Job in the first place.
Think man, think!
By the time the devil was asking God about this Job had already started living in fear and already in satan's hand and the devil was so slow he didn't even know it. All God did was set a limitation to not allow the devil to kill Job, that's it.
Exactly, because Jesus walk in 1 John 5:18
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
But what you do not understand is WHY due to not accepting the whole counsel of God and your readiness to believe it's God's will for evil to happen to His people which is the lie the devil is telling everyone so they'll lay down and let the devil walk all over them as they think that's what God wants.