The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessing]

As usually we have commentary that people place above the clear Scriptures.

I would give someone a hundred dollars if they can find where it has the number of 613 laws in Scripture. Its sad that gets elevated over the Biblical Number that God Himself gave of Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo34:18 not the law of Moses, the Law of God according to God Exo20:6 written personally by God Exo31:18 the works of God not Moses Exo32:16 its sad that man has refused to allow God to be God to define His own commandments and how He asked us to love Him Exo20:6 John14:12

Jesus is this same God. That's what people sadly miss that Jesus is some sort of other entity and not the same God of the OT when Jesus said He is the Great I AM John 8:48 Jesus is this same God made flesh.

Did Jesus come to destroy His own law? He very plainly said the opposite He came to magnify His law- make greater Isa42:21 which is exactly what He did with the Ten Commandments placing it our hearts Heb8:10 2Cor3:3, not stony hearts that won't subject themselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8 but hearts of flesh who love the LORD with all their mind, hearts and soul, which according to God always included the Ten Commandments Deut6:5 because who can correct God's own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 only those who are not with Him Dan7:25 why Jesus plainly taught not a jot or tittle can pass yet alone an entire commandment and warned not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as that is the path that leads to sin and Judgement Mat5:19-30

Instead of Jesus getting rid of the Sabbath Jesus deemed the Authority over the Sabbath because He is our Creator Col1:16 and the Sabbath has always pointed us back to Him, our Creator Exo20:11 the only God we are to worship Rev14:7

κύριος kýrios, koo'-ree-os; from κῦρος kŷros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):—God, Lord, master, Sir.

Jesus wants us resting with Him on the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13 and not working 7 days a way why He set aside 1 day, not a day of ones choice but the seventh day- the only day He sanctified for holy use Gen2:3 and Blessed the Sabbath day from Creation Exo20:11 and He blesses the man who keeps it Isa56:2 and no one can take away God's Blessings, they sadly can just disqualify themselves Psa37:22

 

[Dino246]

Did Jesus come to destroy His own law? He very plainly said the opposite He came to magnify His law- make greater Isa42:21

It is hypocritical to whine about others not following God's directions when you deliberately misrepresent His words.

Here is what Isaiah 42:21 actually says:

"It pleased the Lord for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious."

Here is what Jesus said in the sermon on the mount:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Jesus did not say that "He came to magnify His law". He said He came to fulfill it.

When you don't represent His words properly, you have absolutely no moral ground to complain about the behaviour of others in relation to His word.

Further, you and the other Judaizers seem to think that "fulfill" means "reaffirm". A dictionary would do you well.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It is hypocritical to whine about others not following God's directions when you deliberately misrepresent His words.

Here is what Isaiah 42:21 actually says:

"It pleased the Lord for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious."

Just hover over it the verse: Isa 42:21 The Lord was pleased, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify his law and make it glorious.

The greek word here
גָּדַל gâdal, gaw-dal'; a primitive root; properly, to twist (compare H1434), i.e. to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride):—advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be(-come, do, give, make, wax), great(-er, come to... estate, things), grow(up), increase, lift up, magnify(-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly (spoken), tower.

Here is what Jesus said in the sermon on the mount:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Jesus did not say that "He came to magnify His law". He said He came to fulfill it.

He prophesized to magnify them, not destroy the opposite, magnify means make larger, is it your view He failed? This very passage says something much different. No wonder why He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as that is the wrong path of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30

When you don't represent His words properly, you have absolutely no moral ground to complain about the behaviour of others in relation to His word.

Further, you and the other Judaizers seem to think that "fulfill" means "reaffirm". A dictionary would do you well.

Every false accusation we make against another we will be held accountable. I guess we all shall see, I am not accountable to you- we are both to God Ecc12:13-14 His judgement is the only one that matters.

 

[Dino246]

Just hover over it the verse: Isa 42:21 The Lord was pleased, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify his law and make it glorious.

Where in this passage does it say that Jesus came to do these things?

The greek word here

That’s Hebrew, not Greek.

He prophesized to magnify them, not destroy the opposite, magnify means make larger, is it your view He failed?

I don’t answer stupid leading questions, and the word is “prophesied”.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Where in this passage does it say that Jesus came to do these things?


That’s Hebrew, not Greek.


I don’t answer stupid leading questions, and the word is “prophesied”.

Yes, it is Hebrew, my mistake, a prophecies from Isaiah that I believe Jesus fulfilled perfectly as shown right in Mat 5:17-30.

You are free to believe as you wish it doesn't change my view. God will be the one to work this all out in His time.

 

[TMS]

Further, how many 'beliefs' do you think there are?

Jesus says that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He says He is the only way to the Father so that would be just one way.

There are not myriad paths to salvation. There is only one. Jesus Christ the Lord and the only begotten Son of the Father

Jesus is the only way. We can do nothing without Him.
But He also asked us to obey Him.
Obedience is an outward sign of our love for Jesus.

The difference between us is not our belief in Jesus and knowing that salvation is found only in Him.

Our difference is in what salvation is.

What the gospel is.

Many today believe in Jesus and His saving grace. They are taught about the cleansing blood and this is good but the gospel is more then that.

The Gospel includes salvation FROM SIN. Not IN SIN.

We need to have faith in the power of Christ to save us from sin and to free us from the chains of iniquity.

To restore His image in us. The image of God was perfectly seen in Christ and God wants to restore that image in us too.

You can believe imputed righteousness is enough, but beware ...
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Son of God, the Creator of heaven and earth, pardons, redeems and transforms us unworthy sinners, slaves of sin, into His sons and daughters.

The gospel includes a transformation...

Without it we are slaves to sin forever.
Joh 3:16- 19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The problem with many is they deny the power of Christ to deliver us from sin. It was the same issue in John’s day, and so he warned people ... I quote: “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 Jon 3:7, 8.
Those who make allowance for sin have a form of godliness but deny His power, and in the process, they deny the beauty of God’s holy character.

Keeping or obeying the law of liberty is the beautiful power of Christ in us. Praise Jesus for transforming us.

 

[TMS]

It is hypocritical to whine about others not following God's directions when you deliberately misrepresent His words.

Here is what Isaiah 42:21 actually says:

"It pleased the Lord for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious."

Here is what Jesus said in the sermon on the mount:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Jesus did not say that "He came to magnify His law". He said He came to fulfill it.

When you don't represent His words properly, you have absolutely no moral ground to complain about the behaviour of others in relation to His word.

Further, you and the other Judaizers seem to think that "fulfill" means "reaffirm". A dictionary would do you well.

Fulfil

To keep them

You think He kept them to abolish them.
We think He kept them to establish them.

The context is what makes it clear.

Mat 5:17-18 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Not come to destroy.

That is plan He did not fulfill the law to destroy it..

Verse 18 tells us "Till heaven and Earth pass, one Jot or one tittle shall in NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, ...

that makes it plan

Do you understand that Jesus did not cause the law to be removed by keeping it?

Fulfil = G4137 Transliteration: plēroō
Thayer Definition:

to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

 

[Dino246]

Fulfil

To keep them

You think He kept them to abolish them.
We think He kept them to establish them.

The context is what makes it clear.

Mat 5:17-18 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Not come to destroy.

That is plan He did not fulfill the law to destroy it..

Verse 18 tells us "Till heaven and Earth pass, one Jot or one tittle shall in NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, ...

that makes it plan

Do you understand that Jesus did not cause the law to be removed by keeping it?

Fulfil = G4137 Transliteration: plēroō
Thayer Definition:

to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Try using a language dictionary, not a Bible dictionary.

 

[TMS]

Fulfil = G4137 Transliteration: plēroō
Thayer Definition:

to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings,
promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

To me reading this through 3 times it tells me that when Jesus fulfilled the law, He was making it clear and magnifying it. He was bring it to a better realization, render it perfect, carry out,

Because the law was not a prophecy it did not come to a fulfilled point in christ.
It is a duty and it was made clear and uplifted by Christ for us to understand our duty to keep it.

 

[TMS]

Try using a language dictionary, not a Bible dictionary.

How do you explan that Jesus said....
" I am come to destroy the law,"
and ... "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

????

 

[pinebeach]

Jesus is the only way. We can do nothing without Him.
But He also asked us to obey Him.
Obedience is an outward sign of our love for Jesus.

Well You didn't answer the questions I asked but no surprise there

I disagree that nothing can be done without Jesus. We now have 319 pages of beliefs that Jesus never told anyone to enact but here we are

Lots of words, but still not the gospel as it is found in the New Testament

Our difference is in what salvation is.

What the gospel is.

Right. The gospel is not obedience or commandments. You will not find that in the NT.

The Gospel includes salvation FROM SIN. Not IN SIN.

No. Tricky wording there. The gospel is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who died on our behalf as we cannot live a sinless perfect life as God demands. Jesus was the final sacrifice and the final High Priest.

I don't think you Sabbatarians understand either testament.

 

[pinebeach]

The problem with many is they deny the power of Christ to deliver us from sin. It was the same issue in John’s day, and so he warned people ... I quote: “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 Jon 3:7, 8.
Those who make allowance for sin have a form of godliness but deny His power, and in the process, they deny the beauty of God’s holy character.

And here is the error of Adventists in insisting that Christians think they can sin. That is a lie and we do not think that but it is stated over and over by you and others here.

The main error in your undestanding is thinking that Jesus died to help us behave....when actually, we can never enact perfection.

If you didn't toss Romans, Galatians, Ephesians and every other book Paul wrote, you would understand what the gospel really is

I'm not bothering to have a debate or whatever you call it wherein if you repeat yourself enough you believe it is the truth. It is you that does not understand; you and several others here that we are all familiar with.

The gospel includes a transformation...

And? Do you think Christians don't know that? Is that what you are taught? Study the book of Romans. I don't think you have clue of what is in that book or you would not make the statement that you make.

 

[Dino246]

How do you explan that Jesus said....
" I am come to destroy the law,"
and ... "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

????

I’m not going to answer idiotic questions.

 

[pinebeach]

 

[TMS]

Well You didn't answer the questions I asked but no surprise there

I disagree that nothing can be done without Jesus. We now have 319 pages of beliefs that Jesus never told anyone to enact but here we are.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Without Christ we can not do anything.

Attached to Christ we can produce good fruit. Without Christ we can not produce anything of any value.

the questions you asked.

Why do you feel attacked though? Are you actually being attacked or does the New Testament escape your understanding and so frustration creeps in and you come out swinging.

Further, how many 'beliefs' do you think there are?

There is only one truth and one correct belief.
I feel attacked because the truth that I follow is being attacked.

2Co 4:8-9
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

 

[mailmandan]

The gospel is not obedience or commandments. You will not find that in the NT.

The gospel is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who died on our behalf as we cannot live a sinless perfect life as God demands. Jesus was the final sacrifice and the final High Priest.

Right. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

 

[pinebeach]

Keeping or obeying the law of liberty is the beautiful power of Christ in us.

Wrong wrong wrong etc.

What is the law of liberty? Can a law as Adventists understand that reference create liberty? Does a stop sign give you the liberty to stop or just drive through it? Again, no understanding of what is being called the law of liberty

This law is a declaration of righteousness and salvation by Christ alonge. It is an offer of peace and forgiveness for our sins and a promise of eternal life through Him. The juxtaposition of the terms that seem contradictory, are making the point to the Jewish believers the letter from James was written to. We see the same thing written by Paul in Romans.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. James 1:25

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:27

In Jesus we are free from the bondage of sin not because we try to obey laws, but because we, by faith fullfill the law of liberty in Jesus who alone kept all of the law with no sin and who died in our place. God poured out His wrath on Jesus, His only begotten Son, so that we, who believe in Him, are no longer under the curse of the law....death.

Instead we are now forgiven and in right standing with our Creator.

 

[TMS]

Lots of words, but still not the gospel as it is found in the New Testament

Right. The gospel is not obedience or commandments. You will not find that in the NT.

No. Tricky wording there. The gospel is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who died on our behalf as we cannot live a sinless perfect life as God demands. Jesus was the final sacrifice and the final High Priest.

I don't think you Sabbatarians understand either testament.

I didn't say the gospel wasn't the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

I said you stop short of fully understanding the gospel.

Do you have faith in Jesus's ability to save you FROM SIN?

fully save you From sin.

The choice is ours whether or not we truly believe, and have faith, in the “great and precious promises” of God and “become partakers of the divine nature [His holiness] having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” I Pet 1:4. Christ’s job is to provide the conviction and all the enabling power, and all the glory is His. Our job is to choose whether we will believe and yield our entire beings to him; Without Him, we can do nothing. With Him, we can do all things. His grace is sufficient for us. His strength is made perfect in our weakness. 2 Cor 12:9.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Do you believe Jesus can save you to the uttermost?

 

[pinebeach]

Adventists, Sabbatarians or whatever you wish to refer to yourself as, STOP saying Christians believe we are free to sin.

You have been advised of this many times and yet you continue with the false representation of what we believe and continue to deny the truth, that we do not think we are free to sin.

If what you say you believe is the truth, why do you seem to have to keep on falsely stating what Christians here believe?

I sadly do not think you will stop the false representation. You give no indication you want to stop twisting scripture and taking it
out of context either.

 

[TMS]

The main error in your undestanding is thinking that Jesus died to help us behave....when actually, we can never enact perfection

What does imparted righteousness mean?