Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[Inquisitor]

Because what Scripture says works do with faith, they don't want to hear what faith must do with works.

All faith-alone justifier's are always looking to make a dividing line between faith and works. It's necessary, since their faith in the name of Christ is not always the same as their works without Christ.

In order to preach justification by faith-alone, they can never allow faith and works to be the same. Rather than faith without works is dead, they must make faith without works alive. And faith with evil works is not evil, but good.

Faith-alone justification, aside from all the dissembling of words and Scripture, is really quite simple: "I know I still do bad things, but my heart is still good..."

Their faith-alone makes them righteous and good, while their works judge them unrighteous and evil. Therefore, they must also reject the righteous judgment of God by works:

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Peter {1:15}
Be ye holy, for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

You can't have works without faith.

You can't have faith without grace.

You can't have grace without Jesus our Lord.

Just boast in Jesus.

Program stop.

 

[Lamar]

You can't have works without faith.

You can't have faith without grace.

You can't have grace without Jesus our Lord.

Just boast in Jesus.

Program stop.

Cut it down a little and you got yourself a good bumper sticker.

 

[Inquisitor]

Cut it down a little and you got yourself a good bumper sticker.

Might go with a t-shirt.

 

[Nedsk]

What's your angle? You keep asking this question as if its the ultimate stumper. The word AND acts as a link which signifies that works are the evidence or proof of saving faith, distinguishing active, genuine faith from a dead, bare profession of faith.

I already covered James 2:24 with you multiple times and called you out for rewriting "justified by works" as saved by works.

It's not a stumper but you struggled mightily. It refers to faith. A faith that is completed by works therefore a faith absent works is not sufficient for salvation. The problem for you is you hear "works" and you stop listening. You revert back to what your cashier turned pastor told you, that anytime someone says uses the word "works" it really means "saved by works." You really should learn to actually listen

 

[Nedsk]

Not before God are they justified!

So you don't know either. Figured

 

[Nedsk]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:65 - He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

You been told this 1000 times Gods will is no the same as our choice. God does not force his will on us. That's not love. Whats wrong with you people?

 

[mailmandan]

It's not a stumper but you struggled mightily. It refers to faith. A faith that is completed by works therefore a faith absent works is not sufficient for salvation. The problem for you is you hear "works" and you stop listening. You revert back to what your cashier turned pastor told you, that anytime someone says uses the word "works" it really means "saved by works." You really should learn to actually listen

Struggled mightily? LOL! I understand what faith completed by works means and it does not mean saved by works as you erroneously teach. Its you who really should learn to actually listen.

 

[mailmandan]

You been told this 1000 times Gods will is no the same as our choice. God does not force his will on us. That's not love. Whats wrong with you people?

Who do you think you are fooling?

 

[Nedsk]

Struggled mightily? LOL! I understand what faith completed by works means and it does not mean saved by works as you erroneously teach. Its you who really should learn to actually listen.

I don't trach saved by works. You can't understand me but you understand Scripture? Lol

 

[Mem]

Who do you think you are fooling?

That's just it, though. It's the fool that is fooled, the totally naive child. You can't lure a sheep away from its shepherd. It's drawn away by its own lusts. Goats, on the other hand, they have this false sense of security because they have horns, and are good rock climbers, and can snack on anything.

Just some random thoughts, that may or may not relate to this discussion.

 

[Nedsk]

Who do you think you are fooling?

Fools. So it's your contention that God forces us believe and act and do good works in his name.

 

[Nedsk]

That's just it, though. It's the fool that is fooled, the totally naive child. You can't lure a sheep away from its shepherd. It's drawn away by its own lusts. Goats, on the other hand, they have this false sense of security because they have horns, and are good rock climbers, and can snack on anything.

Just some random thoughts, that may or may not relate to this discussion.

I don't believe they do

We are to have faith like a child so naive isn't necessarily bad.

 

[Mem]

Fools. So it's your contention that God forces us believe and act and do good works in his name.

You didn't ask me, but

God counts Faith in Him as righteousness. He tells us this bridge is secure, the only way to cross over, and leaves it to us to step onto it and walk over. If we say, "Sure, we believe You" but then never step onto it, or argue, 'but I'm pretty sure I can make it by way that first bridge, if you help me there, of course (because it's a bit shaky, in fact, some claim the bridge is out)." There just seems to be something that doesn't sit right there, something undermining that faithfulness that we supposedly should attribute to 'every word' that He says.

Children's legs haven't been strengthened in experience of exercise, and they're wobbly. They'll stumble on their own and it isn't hard to cause them to. Their naivety has double-edged edge.

 

[Nedsk]

You didn't ask me, but

God counts Faith in Him as righteousness. He tells us this bridge is secure, the only way to cross over, and leaves it to us to step onto it and walk over. If we say, "Sure, we believe You" but then never step onto it, or argue, 'but I'm pretty sure I can make it by way that first bridge, if you help me there, of course (because it's a bit shaky, in fact, some claim the bridge is out)." There just seems to be something that doesn't sit right there, something undermining that faithfulness that we supposedly should attribute to 'every word' that He says.

Children's legs haven't been strengthened in experience of exercise, and they're wobbly. They'll stumble on their own and it isn't hard to cause them to. Their naivety has double-edged edge.

Their naivety is nothing of the sort. The double edged sword is our intellect. I see scripture and I see James say faith is completed by works, but what do I see here? People telling me that's not what james really meant, that what James really meant is.....what follows is usually a long winded diversion away from what James clearly said. So I have a choice, believe Scripture or believe others. God gave me a brain and the ability ngo read with comprehension. I have people tell.memthr holy spirit inspires them to understand Scripture "correctly" but only their understanding is correct and no one else's. Funny how that works

 

[mailmandan]

I don't trach saved by works. You can't understand me but you understand Scripture? Lol

I find your blatant dishonesty followed by a Lol to be very disturbing. Common troll behavior.

James 2:22. Why would something that's already complete need completion? If faith alone was sufficient it would complete for salvation but James tell us that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone.

Why would any mention of works be necessary at all if faith alone is sufficient for salvation?

You are not fooling anyone.

 

[Mem]

Their naivety is nothing of the sort. The double edged sword is our intellect. I see scripture and I see James say faith is completed by works, but what do I see here? People telling me that's not what james really meant, that what James really meant is.....what follows is usually a long winded diversion away from what James clearly said. So I have a choice, believe Scripture or believe others. God gave me a brain and the ability ngo read with comprehension. I have people tell.memthr holy spirit inspires them to understand Scripture "correctly" but only their understanding is correct and no one else's. Funny how that works

Ok. Just so you know, you won't get any thanks for cleaning up after the children. It's your duty.

 

[LeeLoving]

Struggled mightily? LOL! I understand what faith completed by works means and it does not mean saved by works as you erroneously teach. Its you who really should learn to actually listen.

How do you deal with Jesus saying only those who do the will of the Father will be saved in Matthew 7:21 when you say we are not saved by works?

Personally, I take faith in Jesus to include someone believing what Jesus said and so therefore they naturally follow what he said, and therefore faith saves you though it is accompanied by works. Works seem to be a natural component of faith in this regard, given that Jesus teaches we are to do the will of the Father.

Sorry for the question, just wondering what you think about this.

 

[ATG]

Salvation produces good Works which is the fruit Jesus is speaking of in John 15

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!


HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Exactly. We can do all things through Christ to abide in Him.

Not we can believe only...

 

[ATG]

tablet123 said:
Paul said that charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love. No charity then no faith.
You are conflating Old Testament with New Testament. There is no salvation in the Old Testament there is only a way to be in communication with God

He is quoting NT Scripture. You are rejecting quoted NT Scriptures. And the the Scriptures are teaching NT salvation, that is always with works of love through faith, not by OT works of law.

If you are rejecting works of love and faith to have godly love and faith toward God and man, then you are rejecting NT Scriptures that reject any love and faith without works.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jo 3:16
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Faith-alone ideology is man's own manner of love and salvation by what he believes alone. Such faith, love, and salvation ends in the grave.

Then explain how the thief on the cross ended up in Paradise With Jesus since he had no works and only faith

Explain how the thief had no works when rebuking the mockers of Jesus?

Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Then explain how the thief entered into paradise with faith only, that is dead being without works.

All faith-alone saviors are always looking in Scripture for some way to find their own faith-alone salvation and justification, that is never there. While they openly avoid the Scriptures saying it's dead and cannot be there.

Mat 23:24
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

The Scriptures never write of having faith only without works, except to condemn it, and never to be justified by it alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only…

 

[mailmandan]

How do you deal with Jesus saying only those who do the will of the Father will be saved in Matthew 7:21 when you say we are not saved by works?

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Nothing in Matthew 7:21 or John 6:40 about saved by works.

Personally, I take faith in Jesus to include someone believing what Jesus said and so therefore they naturally follow what he said, and therefore faith saves you though it is accompanied by works. Works seem to be a natural component of faith in this regard, given that Jesus teaches we are to do the will of the Father.

Sorry for the question, just wondering what you think about this.

Genuine faith is accompanied by good works yet we are saved FOR good works but not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)