Holy Spirit/Blasphemy

[Lamar]

Many modern Pentecostals have left the old paths, running after excitement, praising themselves instead of God.
Meism is the thing apostates do now, & those that do will burn for it.

The "old paths" was the labeling of babble as New Testament tongues and the mundane as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit. This still goes on today in the modern Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches.

You are attempting to muddy up the issue with "old paths" and "meism".

All those who point to the mundane as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit will be judged for this blasphemy.

 

[tourist]

Then what is the good gift that those who are evil give their children?

Probably food and wash the dishes afterward.

 

[Ceph]

Then what is the good gift that those who are evil give their children?

Sinners give each other vain presents for the sake of favor, but hardly things that are considerably beneficial to their soul.
Like more expensive jewelery and other luxeries to people who are already rich. Satan tempts with momentary pleasure for being sinful in the same way.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

I wouldn't think that those who are evil give their children good gifts any more than vipers, being evil, can speak good things.

 

[JayWalker]

So someone who is evil knew how to give good gifts to their children, then what do you think their father the devil would give them if they asked? Source

And the song dust in the wind is not biblical at all seeing it points nobody to the Lord or to repent of their sins.

If one denies the existence of the Holy Spirit, is that what the unpardonable sin is:

Not necessarily, if they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior repenting of their sins and get born again which is all done through the Holy Spirit.

If they do that then the Lord will turn them on to the Holy Spirit.

Per Heb. 6:4-6, the unpardonable sin of blasphemy is apostasy.

Unless a person subscribes to so called "once saved always saved" doctrine in which case they can blaspheme the Holy Spirit and take the mark of the beast and they would still go to heaven.

I wouldn't apply this blasphemy to believers. Not something they can do.

And yet there are Christians doing exactly that who do not believe in the Holy Spirit's leading (carnal minded religious people) claiming other believers who are moved by the leading of the Holy Spirit are actually being led by demons

Being impossible for those who fall away to be brought back to repentance (Heb. 6:4-6),

Everyone that ever got born again sinned at least a few times after getting born again (fell away)

Pentecostals and Charismatics are doing the same by attributing their babble and claims of supernatural abilities as works of the Holy Spirit.

Claiming the Holy Spirit is no longer active among men is blaspheming the Holy Spirit because these people falsely claim that anybody being led of the Holy Spirit is actually being led by demons.

tongues are the sign of Spirit baptism or filling,

And of course those teaching against speaking in the supernatural language of the Holy Spirit are ignorant of what all God's Word has to say about this topic and they enjoy their ignorance due to not accepting the whole counsel of God.

 

[GWH]

And the song dust in the wind is not biblical at all seeing it points nobody to the Lord or to repent of their sins.




Not necessarily, if they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior repenting of their sins and get born again which is all done through the Holy Spirit.

If they do that then the Lord will turn them on to the Holy Spirit.




Unless a person subscribes to so called "once saved always saved" doctrine in which case they can blaspheme the Holy Spirit and take the mark of the beast and they would still go to heaven.




And yet there are Christians doing exactly that who do not believe in the Holy Spirit's leading (carnal minded religious people) claiming other believers who are moved by the leading of the Holy Spirit are actually being led by demons




Everyone that ever got born again sinned at least a few times after getting born again (fell away)




Claiming the Holy Spirit is no longer active among men is blaspheming the Holy Spirit because these people falsely claim that anybody being led of the Holy Spirit is actually being led by demons.




And of course those teaching against speaking in the supernatural language of the Holy Spirit are ignorant of what all God's Word has to say about this topic and they enjoy their ignorance due to not accepting the whole counsel of God.

GWH said "those [radical Pentecostals] claim tongues are the sign of Spirit baptism or filling,
when GW clearly teaches love is such (John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:22-23, 1Cor. 13)."

 

[LeeLoving]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to say blasphemous things against the Holy Spirit. Unpardonable according to Jesus.

I don't think simply declaring that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist would be blasphemy. If you meant it blasphemously though then yes, however that might work.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

And the song dust in the wind is not biblical at all seeing it points nobody to the Lord or to repent of their sins.

So did the LORD form man from the dust of the ground? Did the LORD breath in his nostril the breath of life?

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. Gen 7:21-22

The wind (pneuma) bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit (pneuma). John 3:8

 

[GWH]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to say blasphemous things against the Holy Spirit. Unpardonable according to Jesus.

I don't think simply declaring that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist would be blasphemy. If you meant it blasphemously though then yes, however that might work.

And even worse than saying things against the HS is kicking against him (Heb. 6:4-6, cf. Acts 26:14, Rev. 3:15-16).

 

[presidente]

I hope that calling the Holy Spirit a real force that awakens human consciousness is not blasphemy. I won't even repeat the picture with the actual quote. Is calling Someone a 'force' trying to remove personhood from the Person? Maybe it wasn't intended that way, but it sounds more like something from Star Wars than the Bible or theology.

 

[presidente]

I think it is important to actually understand what Jesus said in context. Some people forget what the words on the page actually mean and try to use the topic to plug a hole in their eschatology.

Jesus cast out devils through the Spirit of God, but there were Pharisees who accused the Spirit by which he did so of being Beelzebub (the gospel of Mark says an unclean spirit.) Jesus warned that Whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come. Then, in our translations in Matthew, it also says this applies to one who speaks a word against the Holy Spirit.

There are people who don't know what 'blaspheme' means since it is a rarely used word. It comes from a Greek word, that has to do with speaking against, vilifying.... something along those lines.

Dying in unbelief is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Dying physically isn't a sin. Jesus died (and rose again.) Numerous saints died. Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints.... they are still saints even though they die. Unbelief is the sin of 'dying in unbelief.' But unbelief can be repented of and forgiven. Otherwise Paul, for example, would not have been forgiven.

The Bible also does not teach that resisting the conviction of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. How many have done that, repented, and believed? In some manuscripts, Jesus asks Paul why he kicked against the pricks.

I think the idea that not believing the Gospel, etc. is blaspheming the Holy Spirit actually comes from Augustine. He makes this long winding argument that feels like sophistry to me, where basically he makes all kinds of things out to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit, even though they reasonably would not be interpreted as such. Then tries to argue away blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

But the passage is rather straight forward. They were accusing the Holy Spirit of being an unclean spirit, which, I think we could agree, would be a form of saying something evil about the Holy Spirit.

 

[LeeLoving]

I hope that calling the Holy Spirit a real force that awakens human consciousness is not blasphemy. I won't even repeat the picture with the actual quote. Is calling Someone a 'force' trying to remove personhood from the Person? Maybe it wasn't intended that way, but it sounds more like something from Star Wars than the Bible or theology.

With blasphemy I think the intention has to be that of being denigrating in a sacrilegious manner. Putting something in a way you shouldn't ignorantly is not blasphemy I don't think. There has to be intention behind your words for the purpose of being blasphemous, or in other words you have to do it on purpose.

I used to struggle with this issue a lot but thankfully was able to become comfortable with the idea that I never blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lamar]

Claiming the Holy Spirit is no longer active among men is blaspheming the Holy Spirit because these people falsely claim that anybody being led of the Holy Spirit is actually being led by demons.

Total crock.

No one here is claiming such a thing.

You live in a world of your own definitions.

The Holy Spirit is active today just not by your understanding.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is what the Pentecostal do when they falsely claim their words are from the Holy Spirit.

Pentecostals are not being led by demons but instead by the foolishness of their own making.

Jeremiah 23:32

Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the LORD, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the LORD.

 

[JayWalker]

GWH said "those [radical Pentecostals] claim tongues are the sign of Spirit baptism or filling,
when GW clearly teaches love is such (John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:22-23, 1Cor. 13)."

Walking in love and allowing the Holy Spirit to pray thru us is two different things.

Those rejecting the gift of praying in the Spirit wouldn't understand since they refuse to accept all God's Word says on the topic.

There's a reason why the devil does not want people to pray in the Spirit.

 

[JayWalker]

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is what the Pentecostal do when they falsely claim their words are from the Holy Spirit.

IF you only knew the rest of God's Word...

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak [as inspired by the Holy Spirit], while the rest pay attention and weigh carefully what is said.

The problem with these folks is they are like everyone else in that they believe in "once saved always saved" which is false doctrine and then from there they go way overboard with prosperity which is actually biblical but it's a side issue and is not to be made our priority

The result is nobody is judging the words of knowledge given to make sure they are biblical and then issue correction when they are not.

Just so you know, it is not wrong to covet to prophesy, and to speak with tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39)

 

[Lamar]

Just so you know, it is not wrong to covet to prophesy, and to speak with tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39)

This is a false claim, no one is forbidding anyone from prophesy or speaking in tongues.
If you have an example of someone doing this I would be interested in knowing who.

No one is denying that the Bible speaks of the existence of physical supernatural manifestations.
The issue is simply are the modern claims of physical supernatural manifestations actually happening.

The prima facie of any physical claim is self-evident in nature and hence the claims are false.

There is simply no way around this reality.
The Pentecostal movement is not of God.

Citing examples of its existence in the New Testament does not prove that the Pentecostals are doing the same.

The Pentecostal movement is not of demons but a clear example of what Jeremiah 23:32 warns us against.

 

[Lamar]

Walking in love and allowing the Holy Spirit to pray thru us is two different things.

Those rejecting the gift of praying in the Spirit wouldn't understand since they refuse to accept all God's Word says on the topic.

There's a reason why the devil does not want people to pray in the Spirit.

Walking by faith without sight and walking by physical manifestations are two different things.

Those claiming the ability to preform or speak in the supernatural cannot grasp the blessings of a lifelong commitment of walking by faith without sight.

There's a reason Thomas is called the doubter.

 

[Lamar]

Jesus cast out devils through the Spirit of God, but there were Pharisees who accused the Spirit by which he did so of being Beelzebub (the gospel of Mark says an unclean spirit.) Jesus warned that Whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come. Then, in our translations in Matthew, it also says this applies to one who speaks a word against the Holy Spirit.

The difference here is that Jesus what actually casting out devils through the Spirit of God.

This is not what Pentecostals are doing. Pentecostals are simply showboating about and driving out figments of their imagination.

There is simply no way around this reality.
The claims of the Pentecostals are not supernatural and hence are not of God.

 

[presidente]

The difference here is that Jesus what actually casting out devils through the Spirit of God.

This is not what Pentecostals are doing. Pentecostals are simply showboating about and driving out figments of their imagination.

There is simply no way around this reality.
The claims of the Pentecostals are not supernatural and hence are not of God.

I don't know why you brought Pentecostals up. I think this might be an area where you feel a bit of discomfort or cognitive dissonance.

There are some people who see a problem, a sin or ailment and who think there MUST be a demon behind it that can be cast out. In my experience, this is much more likely to happen with certain types of Charismatics than with Pentecostals. That viewpoint isn't really in line with the demonology of a lot of the Pentecostal denominations, but there could be some individual variation among Pentecostals when it comes to this. Generally, Trinitarian Pentecostals in the US think Christians can't be 'demon-possessed.' But Charismatics have a variety of beliefs depending on their church and the group, and there are people who are into 'deliverance ministry' whether legitimately, or going off the deep end.

But why would you think that if someone goes to a Pentecostal church, that there is no chance God could use him to cast out a demon? That doesn't make sense theologically. Jesus asked if he had cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your children cast them out? Apparently, the Pharisee's followers might have had some success at casting out demons. Maybe they used the name of God or scripture. Jesus cast out demons with authority and the demons submitted, which amazed people, and wasn't what they were used to.

There are videos online of a Coptic priest known for casting out devils who past away not that long ago. Muslims would bring demonized people to him to cast out. If Jews could potentially cast out demons, why couldn't Roman Catholics, Copts, or Greek Orthodox who use the name of Jesus (or quote scripture or means that overlap with what the Pharisees did)? Why couldn't Protestants, like Lutherans or Reformed? Why couldn't Baptists or Pentecostals?

There will even be those who are rejected in Matthew 7 for being workers of iniquity who will claim to have cast out Devils. If they aren't deceived or bold enough to lie in the judgment, and Satan does not cast out Satan, then might they not have cast demons out by the Spirit of God? Judas was with the rest of the 12 when they were all given authority to cast out demons. Balaam and Caiaphas prophesied.

I heard a video clip from a street preacher who was basically a cessationist, but then he talked about having cast out a demon. Maybe he hadn't read where the Bible calls casting out demons in Jesus name a miracle/sign. God can work through or with people in spite of their shortcomings when it comes to theology or knowledge of the scriptures.

Also, John had told some people who did not follow with Jesus in the 12 not to cast out demons in Jesus' name, and Jesus said do not forbid them. Whoever did a miracle in His name could not straightway go out and speak a word against Him.

 

[JayWalker]

The issue is simply are the modern claims of physical supernatural manifestations actually happening.

That's being a secessionist which is something satan is trying to get all Christians to be as the devil is claiming Jesus actually not the same yesterday, today, and forever - Hebrews 13:8

You done come a few decades too late for me holmes. I've experienced the Lord moving in my behalf numerous times supernaturally including physical healing and divine protection. If the Lord has not done miracles in my life I would not be here now.

The prima facie of any physical claim is self-evident in nature and hence the claims are false.

Only for those choosing to walk in unbelief.
These people will NOT be bothers with miracles because they Lord will NOT be doing any for them because of their unbelief

The Pentecostal movement is not of demons but a clear example of what Jeremiah 23:32 warns us against.

Those are people who speak out of the false doctrine satan has deceived them with such as once saved always saved and the false doctrine of the "God don't do miracle no mo" crowd.

Walking by faith without sight and walking by physical manifestations are two different things.

Those who know how to walk in faith eventually see the manifestation of what they are believing for.
You're never going to experience this but those of us who are skilled in the Word of righteousness will and are.

The claims of the Pentecostals are not supernatural and hence are not of God.

That's what the demons keep claiming, that Jesus is not the same same yesterday, today, and forever - Hebrews 13:8 so they claim He's not doing miracles no mo.

Demons laugh at those who are so slow that they can be deceived in to not believing the whole counsel of God.

there is no chance God could use him to cast out a demon?

Because the devil deceived some in to not believing the whole counsel of God.

Why couldn't Protestants, like Lutherans or Reformed?

Because they walk in false doctrine and are not being led by the Holy Spirit and instead walk in the darkened wisdom of religious mankind who does not accept all of God's Word.

The devil has been know to, for the sake of deception, allow his false ministers to seemingly do miracles to remove something the devil brought on someone.

The devil can and does put things on people just so a false minister (like a catholic priest) to remove it by praying for the purposes of deceiving others in to believing catholics are the true church which they are not.

The devil would have interest in doing such because the end result is people following catholicism and they end up going to hell.

The devil is very religious but his religious teachings are in opposition to the Doctrine of Christ and are deceptive being designed to lead people stray be tricking them in to believing they are walking with the Lord Jesus but in reality they are walking with the devil and end up spending eternity being tormented in hell.