Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[Nedsk]

It was his faith that was counted as righteousness his Works didn't have anything to do with it he had faith and God credited him with righteousness

Our works and by proxy the attempt at using them to gain righteousness is as filthy rags and the reference there is rags with women's menstrual cycle on them it is a heavy condemnation of works

His faith was completed by works just as james said. You aren't arguing with me friend.

"Filthy rags". Enough said. Lol

 

[mailmandan]

Where have I been dishonest? You clearly either don't or can't understand what I am saying.

Neither are you

Your true colors are obvious.

 

[ATG]

Nobody preaches "justification by faith-alone" because that is your personal invention which has absolutely no scriptural foundation, no objective meaning, and no importance outside of your extremely narrow, self-absorbed, lying mind.

Tell that to those who preach they are justified by faith-alone apart from their works.

Self-absorption is much time spent uselessly arguing against something you don't believe exists.

 

[Nedsk]

Your true colors are obvious.

But you can't show where I was dishonest. Sad. I never said we are saved by works. That is a false doctrine put in your head by your cashier turned pastor but people believe untrue thinks all the time. You're just one of many

 

[ATG]

No one is justified before God almighty because of something they did.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

You're preaching a gospel of your own making by your own faith-alone, that does not believe the gospel of the Scriptures.

We are all saved utterly by Jesus Christ alone.

True. And still justified utterly by works through Jesus Christ alone.

Phl 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

The gospel of justification by faith-alone, while doing unrighteousness, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ doing His righteousness alone.

When you think of salvation just think Jesus Christ.

Only thinking of Jesus Christ, is as dead and fruitless as only believing in God:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

When anyone thinks of salvation and justification by their faith-alone, they are not thinking of Jesus Christ.

Your unrighteous deeds are a topic for another day.

We see how faith-alone always separates itself from works. Which is always necessary to be justified by faith-alone apart from unrighteous deeds.

In the Scriptural gospel of Jesus Christ, faith and works are always one and the same, never separate. Except it be dead faith-alone being without works.

 

[mailmandan]

Ah, it's easily missed, but in Matthew 7:24 it says, "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

This is at the end of the sermon on the mount, and the sayings Jesus has been preaching are moralistic sayings such as do unto others as they do unto you and judge not that ye be not judged. Since in verse 24 Jesus says he will consider anyone wise who puts his sayings into practice I think one can surmise that the will of the Father includes doing things such as what are included in his sayings (the will of the Father which we must do to enter into the kingdom of heaven, according to Jesus), therefore certain works are necessary for salvation according to Jesus.

Here's the four verses when read together:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In context, Jesus is exposing false prophets. (Matthew 7:15-24) False prophets are bad trees that bear bad fruit (vs. 17-20) in contrast with good trees that bear good fruit (descriptive of believers/children of God) Works are the fruit of faith but we are NOT saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 failed to do the will of the Father by choosing to believe in him and receive eternal life. Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. Despite their outward religious activity, they lacked faith (Hebrews 11:6) and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. (John 17:3) Hence, workers of iniquity/you who practice lawlessness.

As we read on from Matthew 7:24 through verse 27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as you suppose.

Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.

 

[ATG]

You can't have works without faith.

Correct. No works without faith, and no faith without works.

You can't have faith without grace.

Not faith toward God to do good. Only faith to do evil is without grace of God.

You can't have grace without Jesus our Lord.

Nor the grace of Jesus our Lord without repentance from dead works.

And so, we see how the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached: Repentance by grace through faith unto salvation and good works of God.

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The faith of man without repentance first, is his own alone with unrighteous deeds. The sinful man is sorry for sinful deeds, but not unto repentance and salvation from unrighteous deeds.

 

[mailmandan]

But you can't show where I was dishonest. Sad. I never said we are saved by works. That is a false doctrine put in your head by your cashier turned pastor but people believe untrue thinks all the time. You're just one of many

I already showed you multiple times. You are a dishonest, gaslighting troll who really needs to find a better hobby.

 

[legion]

His faith was completed by works just as james said. You aren't arguing with me friend.

"Filthy rags". Enough said. Lol

I'm literally telling you that you're wrong.

His faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) means that God credits righteousness to a person based on their belief in Him, rather than by their works or merits. It is a key theological concept of justification by grace alone, highlighting that trust in God—not earning salvation—justifies the ungodly, as illustrated by Abraham. [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

[Nedsk]

I already showed you multiple times. You are a dishonest, gaslighting troll who really needs to find a better hobby.

No you haven't but again people believe all kinds of untrue things all the time. Yours is a prime example

 

[Nedsk]

I'm literally telling you that you're wrong.

His faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) means that God credits righteousness to a person based on their belief in Him, rather than by their works or merits. It is a key theological concept of justification by grace alone, highlighting that trust in God—not earning salvation—justifies the ungodly, as illustrated by Abraham. [1, 2, 3, 4]

You can also literally tell me 2+2=5 but again that doesn't make it so.

Jesus said "Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only the one who does the will of my heavenly Father." Does is a verb by the way

Paul says "For all of us must appear before the judgement seat of Christ so that one may receive suitable recompense for his conduct in the body whether good or bad".

Look ignore the parts you do like. You aren't arguing with me

 

[legion]

I'm literally telling you that you're wrong

and the Scripture was fulfilled that says,“Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called afriend of God

Nowhere in that is a work mentioned.

His faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) means that God credits righteousness to a person based on their belief in Him, rather than by their works or merits. It is a key theological concept of justification by grace alone, highlighting that trust in God—not earning salvation—justifies the ungodly, as illustrated by Abraham.

And in Isaac's case he did not complete the task at hand it was only on faith that he was going to do it but it was counted as righteousness

This is a big tenant of the Christian faith that somehow somebody has told you incorrectly

 

[mailmandan]

No you haven't but again people believe all kinds of untrue things all the time. Yours is a prime example

Your true colors have been exposed for all to see. I'll let you get back to your folly.

 

[mailmandan]

Whosoever repents to be believe on the Son shall have eternal life.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

People isolate and separate Scripture from Scripture to their own destruction. Sinful people can only have faith-alone, by not first repenting toward God.

Exactly. No man can repent toward God without the Spirit's conviction of sin, and draw to repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

The Spirit of life does not draw to having dead faith-alone, but only convicts the sinner not to have faith only without works.

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Don't confuse a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works (James 2:14) with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) The latter does not negate repentance. We must first repent (change our mind) before we can place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 20:21)

 

[legion]

You can also literally tell me 2+2=5 but again that doesn't make it so.

Jesus said "Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only the one who does the will of my heavenly Father." Does is a verb by the way

Paul says "For all of us must appear before the judgement seat of Christ so that one may receive suitable recompense for his conduct in the body whether good or bad".

Look ignore the parts you do like. You aren't arguing with me

Well you are corrected one thing we can anybody can tell you the truth and you can go on believing whatever you want to believe but there is a statement of faith spread across several creeds In the Protestant world Works has nothing to do with anything except for Rewards or lack of rewards in heaven

The preaching of works being tied to Salvation is as Paul calls it another gospel not the one which he has preached

 

[Inquisitor]

How do you deal with Jesus saying only those who do the will of the Father will be saved in Matthew 7:21 when you say we are not saved by works?

Personally, I take faith in Jesus to include someone believing what Jesus said and so therefore they naturally follow what he said, and therefore faith saves you though it is accompanied by works. Works seem to be a natural component of faith in this regard, given that Jesus teaches we are to do the will of the Father.

Sorry for the question, just wondering what you think about this.

You can't have good works without faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as
a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Grace first then faith and good works must follow.

Salvation is not granted as a result of anything we do but remains a free gift at all times.

There is a sharp distinction between the free gift and our efforts in seeking salvation.

Ultimately, salvation results from Christ's sacrifice and not our own sacrifice.

 

[Inquisitor]

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Abraham did not sacrifice his son.

Abraham was reckoned righteous years before Genesis 15:6.

Grace, then faith, and works should follow.

No one has a good work without the Holy Spirit's interaction first.

Salvation is definitely not faith and works together because that contradicts Christ's work for us.

 

[Nedsk]

Your true colors have been exposed for all to see. I'll let you get back to your folly.

Just copy and paste where I said works save us. It should be easy right?

 

[Nedsk]

Well you are corrected one thing we can anybody can tell you the truth and you can go on believing whatever you want to believe but there is a statement of faith spread across several creeds In the Protestant world Works has nothing to do with anything except for Rewards or lack of rewards in heaven

The preaching of works being tied to Salvation is as Paul calls it another gospel not the one which he has preached

You are arguing with me friend you're arguing with Scripture.

What you could do though is show me evidence that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. Telling me lots of people believe like you do is not evidence of the authority of your understanding of Scripture. You folks assume a a.lot and think it's true because you believe it.

 

[Lamar]

Genuine faith is accompanied by good works yet we are saved FOR good works but not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

If "genuine faith is accompanied by good works" then James 2:24 has no purpose.

If genuine faith will always produce good works, why the warning?